Whats bothering me today?

[mikhen7]

Why is it so important to go to Church?

1) God ordained it
2) Jesus started it
3) It is the only institution promised to live forever
4) We are exhorted to do so
5) The Apostles led by this example

I was thinking about how easy it is to get into the mold of never going to church. All of us have probably been there at one point and for a variety of reasons. But I came to the conclusion that unless your back-slidden, disabled, or working weekends their really should be no excuse for not being part of the local church body. Bad pastor's, back-talking, cliques, high-mindedness and many other excuses can be used but do they really excuse us from serving one another and building one another up? Online study and chatting is ok for learning, praying, and encouraging from a distance and I like it very much, but what is missed is hugging someone in need, loving others as Christ did when He came to be among us, leading by example, allowing Christ to build your spiritual gift to help build the body of Christ in a local assembly and many other reasons. Please consider how you can join and be part of the local church.

If everyone decides to quit going because of fleshly reasoning then how will the body of Christ function? How will they be a beacon on the hill? If we stay home and do not function as one body physically how will the lost know of God's plan for salvation? They do not all frequent Christian sites or forums. Think again my brothers and sisters about the importance of this God-Ordained work on earth.

Acts 2:42; Hebrews 10:25; 1 John 4:12; Hebrews 3:13; Hebrews 10:24; Galatians 5:13; Romans 15:14; Romans 12:10; Ephesians 4:32; 1 Corinthians 12:27; 1 Corinthians 12:14-20; and 1 Corinthians 12:21-26

God bless!

[livin_in_the_Son]

Well said.

[daygo]

Good post, however I would like to point out that you can still go to church when you work weekends, in short there is no reason not to go to church.

[SteveJM]

I agree with most of what you're saying. Church is very important, and it saddens me that I'm without a home base. There are other reasons besides fleshly ones for being without a church. Church is God ordained, we are commanded to not forsake the assembling of ourselves together, and we should take heed to that. As far as how will they know God's plan of salvation, that is something for all believers to share, whether they are in a church or not. Many people have the notion that the role of sharing the Gospel is primarily for the pastor, when it is their own responsibility as well.

I agree that Christian sites and forums are not a substitute for a physical local church, but they are a help to many who are desiring more, are shut in, or as in my case, temporarily without a home church. Even when I find a home, I'll still be here, for I've found friends who, though I've never seen them, I care about and love. There is something nice about being in a place where we are blind to the physical, and all that we share and see is from our hearts and minds. However, a physical place for Bible study, exhortation, fellowship, communion, community involvement, using your God given gifts, and being a part of what is God ordained, should be where we all are, if we're able to.

Finding a home church can be difficult, especially if you're in a more rural area. When you have one church that has had one scandal after another, where the former pastor cheated on and divorced his wife, and one of the former youth leaders who was in prison for molesting children, is now back in a leadership role, another church where there is no substance, no bible study, and only one meeting time per week, and yet another small church, where again they only meet once per week, you are ignored, the pastor who has all of your information has never taken the time to even once say hello, the idea of a home church becomes very appealing. It's getting to the point where I may have to settle for a church that I don't completely agree with theologically, which grieves me, but if we all remove ourselves from churches that cause us some grief, where are we? I say a hearty amen to what you've posted. Local church membership needs to be a top priority for every believer.

[Meg]

I would add this. What about all the people who are in church every Sunday? Are they not the very people whose behavior is the reason others are avoiding church in the first place? My experience with churches involves cliques, feelings of isolation and such severe depression from the apathy towards my genuine needs that I asked the Lord to let me die (2008). No one wants to go to a filthy house.

[livin_in_the_Son]

I would add this. What about all the people who are in church every Sunday? Are they not the very people whose behavior is the reason others are avoiding church in the first place? My experience with churches involves cliques, feelings of isolation and such sever depression from the apathy towards my genuine needs that I asked the Lord to let me die (2008). No one wants to go to a filthy house.

Dear sister, , I'm sure many here truly love and care about you, and your genuine needs. I think, and I could be wrong, (it's happened before), that the OP was meant more for those who look for reasons to sleep in, skip, or many other excuses to not attend a local church. I don't think that it applies to you, but hopefully one day you might find a local church that will show you the love of Christ, and welcomes you with open arms, like you welcome so many here with your warmth and love. I adore you, and I can't wait to meet you one day.

But I think that maybe the backslidden SHOULD go to church, where else is a better place for them to start getting restored?

[ANY MINUTE]

Good thread starter mikhen7

SteveJM, I too am in a similar place right now. Not in all the details, but being rural and finding a sound church to learn, worship and fellowship in. I agree with your comment about every one's need to share the Gospel. Outside the church walls is often a better place to witness to the lost world, IMO. Many church's have done everything they can to entice the lost in, in some cases watering down the Gospel and even catering to the lost at the expense of Who they are suppose to be serving. This is one thing I can't compromise on for the sake of unity and fellowship.

I mean no disrespect to the O.P., but I don't see scriptural proof of being required to attend a recognized visible church as in the major denom and nondenom church. I in no way dispute the biblical scriptures calling us to gather, fellowship, edify, ect., but in some cases that can be done even better in smaller groups. I don't mean to discourage anyone because I know there are good, sound churches out there, but in my particular case right now, I'm having trouble finding a local church that hasn't bought into the seeker/church growth/emergant model, doesn't teach r/t, or add works to salvation. I can be a part of a church who has some of the troubles listed in the o.p. such as bad pastoring (within reason), cliques and what not. I just can't compromise on bad theology/doctrine or Christ not being the focus of the service. I agree that the lost for the most part aren't going to engage on this forum too often, but I imagine some of the hundreds who read here at any given time are indeed lost and this may be a source of reaching one of them. I'm not sure the church building is the best place to reach the lost either. Actually it may be, because some sitting there week after week, year after year may indeed still be lost, thinking they are saved.

We as the body of Christ, the Church, need to also include being faithful witnesses to our families, friends, co-workers, and anyone else we come in contact with outside the church walls. Walking (not just hearing and talking) out our faith for the lost, dying world to see, always being ready to give an account of that Hope that is in us. As much as I agree with the o.p. about the fleshly reasons being an excuse, I also know that God can grow you, develope your gifts and even use you to reach many people you would never see in a church sevice.
As I said in another thread, many of my own family are lost and will probably never step foot into a sound church so we also need to be careful not to hide in church, putting on our Sunday best for all the other Christians to see and take that salt and light out into the world. Church is for believers and those lost who are searching for the Truth, the real battlefield is where the Christians aren't gathered together, Imo.

[ShilohRose]

I have been unable to go to church since August, much less find one in our new location. Health issues have created a major problem, but I feel the need to attend, and I feel like the Lord is telling me I need to go. I am afraid of what it will do to this affliction I have. In the past, it has made it worse, and it seems that I spend a lot of time driving back and forth to see a dr., who is about to refer me to someone else, because she cannot do anything else for me. My DH thinks it's ridiculous for me to try to go to church under these circumstances, but if I don't go, my children don't go (DH doesn't go to church anymore), and I worry about that, even though most days I have Bible study with them. The whole thing is just hard. My physical situation gets better, then deteriorates for awhile, back and forth.

I understand how Meg feels, too. We move a lot, and being a newcomer in church is taxing. Newcomers are frequently ignored or even looked at like aliens. A warm, gracious, Bible-believing church is hard to find. I'm not expecting one of those though. Right now, I'd just like to be well enough to go to church. It would be a privilege to be able to go.

[mikhen7]

I have been unable to go to church since August, much less find one in our new location. Health issues have created a major problem, but I feel the need to attend, and I feel like the Lord is telling me I need to go. I am afraid of what it will do to this affliction I have. In the past, it has made it worse, and it seems that I spend a lot of time driving back and forth to see a dr., who is about to refer me to someone else, because she cannot do anything else for me. My DH thinks it's ridiculous for me to try to go to church under these circumstances, but if I don't go, my children don't go (DH doesn't go to church anymore), and I worry about that, even though most days I have Bible study with them. The whole thing is just hard. My physical situation gets better, then deteriorates for awhile, back and forth.

I understand how Meg feels, too. We move a lot, and being a newcomer in church is taxing. Newcomers are frequently ignored or even looked at like aliens. A warm, gracious, Bible-believing church is hard to find. I'm not expecting one of those though. Right now, I'd just like to be well enough to go to church. It would be a privilege to be able to go.

God bless you Shiloh. Sometimes there are good health reasons for staying home. That may be God's will, however, He also may open a way for you to attend without getting worse. I would just seek Him in solitude with the Scriptures at hand and just wait for Him to give you wisdom. He may bring healing, He may bring along another in service to help you, He may just tell you to serve where you are. In any case His word will bring glory to Him and His decisions are might.

God Bless!!

[mikhen7]

My original intent was to bring out the fact that it is Jesus who set up the Church and commanded us to make disciples and to teach His message. Whether it is in a home or a small group that meets regularly in the name of Christ to study and serve, or wherever two or three meet in the name of Christ for His glory, worship and mission, as long as there is opportunity to serve and be a visible witness to Christ I am sure He will honor.
But let me ask this, if being able to attend is not an issue, and if you still do not attend worship service for one of the reasons stated in replies to the post, where will you send those who receive Jesus through your witness for baptism, formal instruction, training, discipleship, and service? To one of the churches you refuse to attend or to their homes and a computer and TV? Will you tell them that they should attend church? Or will you tell them there is no churches in the area worth going to because they are all full of hypocrites so just stay home and send me an email if you have any questions? As a Christian, you are commanded to make disciples. I am hoping your answer will be I will take them under my wing for discipleship, meet with them weekly for training, be an example of service to them in the community by allowing them to tag along and I will make sure they attend one of my small group studies on a regular basis. Baptism???? To some its not important, huh? The point is I like this forum very much and I love the fellowship and study we can get here. I will find time for it. For some that may be all they can do and God will richly bless that. But we are called to be witnesses. Jesus went to the Temple and spoke because it was the right thing to do. He met with the religious leaders who turned His stomach because it was the sick who needed a physician. He turned over the tables of the money changers because they were not being the witness to the world they should have been and were set up to be. He did not flinch one bit because the temple was supposed to be the place where one worshiped and heard God's word, it was God’s work.

The Church is now where Christ dwells. I realize being sound in my theology that the Church is the body of believers and He lives in and dwells in us individually. He also dwells in our midst when there are two or more gathered in His name. God has given all of us gifts and we are to use them to help build up the body of Christ. We cannot build up the lost because they are lost and not part of the body. Bringing them to Christ is important but then the calling for them becomes the same—to use our gifts to build up the body of Christ.

IMO the church is to be a beacon on the hill. We are to be a light to the world. If the corrupt church is not it then it needs to be stormed. Storm it with God-glorifying works just as you would a lost person. Heap coals of fire on its head. But do not just run and do nothing. I am not hiding in a church. I attend church because I want to help others grow in their faith and I want to worship with brothers and sisters in Christ. The church should be a hospital for the sick. If it is sick them maybe God is calling you to be the ER doctor. I was kicked out of a church once for sharing Christ without the consent of the pastor and I did not give up, I kept sharing.

If you cannot go that is most understandable. If you can, and won't, then start your own if you have all the right answers. But start fellow-shipping and worshiping God on a regular basis so He can reveal in a greater way the gift He has for you.
Jesus said, “¹⁸ And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. Matthew 16:18 (NKJV)

[Hannah]

Why is it so important to go to Church?

1) God ordained it
2) Jesus started it
3) It is the only institution promised to live forever
4) We are exhorted to do so
5) The Apostles led by this example

I was thinking about how easy it is to get into the mold of never going to church. All of us have probably been there at one point and for a variety of reasons. But I came to the conclusion that unless your back-slidden, disabled, or working weekends their really should be no excuse for not being part of the local church body. Bad pastor's, back-talking, cliques, high-mindedness and many other excuses can be used but do they really excuse us from serving one another and building one another up? Online study and chatting is ok for learning, praying, and encouraging from a distance and I like it very much, but what is missed is hugging someone in need, loving others as Christ did when He came to be among us, leading by example, allowing Christ to build your spiritual gift to help build the body of Christ in a local assembly and many other reasons. Please consider how you can join and be part of the local church.

If everyone decides to quit going because of fleshly reasoning then how will the body of Christ function? How will they be a beacon on the hill? If we stay home and do not function as one body physically how will the lost know of God's plan for salvation? They do not all frequent Christian sites or forums. Think again my brothers and sisters about the importance of this God-Ordained work on earth.

Acts 2:42; Hebrews 10:25; 1 John 4:12; Hebrews 3:13; Hebrews 10:24; Galatians 5:13; Romans 15:14; Romans 12:10; Ephesians 4:32; 1 Corinthians 12:27; 1 Corinthians 12:14-20; and 1 Corinthians 12:21-26

God bless!

I'm actually highly offended by your post. This forum has been my salvation when it comes to having somewhere to fellowship and get encouragement and teaching and prayer. We may not be able to physically hug others here but the kindness and caring of the members here (especially those of you who have sent me a PM from time to time) have been very comforting.

Just because I don't go to Church regularly or at all doesn't mean I cannot Serve God. Not all of God's people sit in Churches either.

Mainly due to my chronic Illnesses I cannot attend my local Church regularly. They are not my main place of fellowship. I have been there for 13 years and I have despite having served there and been involved in many Ladies groups never had any of them offer me friendship. When I got very sick and was not be able to go I quickly found out how shallow these women are, no phone calls or messages sent to me through my husband.

The men at our Church are more concerned about my long absences that any of the women. My hubby goes fairly regularly because it is his only form of Fellowship and the only ones that ask about me are some of his men friends.

I don't need up close and personal friendships.

I meet together with like minded Christians here and it suits me quite fine. I have from a few previous forums kept in contact with a few members I got to know well and we email each other regularly. Being in different countries it is the easiest form of communication for us. We have a genuine friendship despite the distance and form of communication. We often share with each other and minister to each other and hold each other up in prayer. These email friends have been more concerned and involved in my life than the Ladies I know from my Church.

As for Sharing the Gospel? Well if you have to Evangelise in a Church then the Church you are going to must be full of UnSaved people & I would have to wonder why that is?

I Share the Gospel with non-Christians in Secular situations outside my Church.

A Church is not the Body of Christ. It is a man made institution that can have both Saved Believers and the UnSaved in it. There is no guarantee that a Church is truly serving God if it has a Heretic Pastor or it is full of Believers following False Teachings.

The Body of Christ is only made up of those who have Repented and Recieved Christ. Whenever a Saved Believer gets together with another Saved Believer that is true fellowship. If we are Gods we will be available for the Lord to use us for His service.

Yes not everybody who is a Christian avoids going to Church or Fellowships on a Forum. For those of you who like to gather physically in a Church feel free to do so. It's fine with me! But please don't insult me for not going to Church and accuse me of not serving God.

My Christian friends from my past University days come over to my house and phone me and provide me with genuine physical (in the flesh) friendship/fellowship. They are busy and can rarely manage to do so but they do so when they can.

My Church is very Cliquey I am not the only woman to complain about it to the minister. Many have left because they didn't fit in with the women there. I don't have the Health or Strength to go elsewhere but the MEN are different. There are quite a few Godly men and my husband needs his fellowship and I'm not willing to make him leave for me when I can get my needs met here at RF. Basically I am still chronically ill wouldn't be able to spend the energy trying to establish new friendships elsewhere.

Sorry but many Churches today are not the great place of Fellowship and Teaching they once were. I think many Churches have a lot of ungodly aspects in they way they function today because of the people that do attend and these people are not willing to change. There are many, many, many Weeds amongst the Wheat these days.


I can do far more work for God outside the Church than in it!

[ANY MINUTE]

mikhen7 Where did this come from? "If you cannot go that is most understandable. If you can, and won't, then start your own if you have all the right answers"

I hope this thread doesn't get so heated that it gets closed down but that statement is harsh, unrealistic (even for pastors), and not the only solution IMO.

I took no offense to your post and I hope I didn't offend with mine. I have no reason to suspect that your theology is not sound, I believe quite the opposite from your posts.
Some of what was stated in the o.p. is opinion and I would think be open to others opinions. I can speak for no one else but myself when I say that the visible church assembly is not always the best solution depending on so many different factors, not just inability to physically go.

I was never emotionally hurt, physically hurt, suffered undeserved correction(or any for that matter), or asked to leave. I will share with you that I had to make the same voluntary, heart wrenching, agonizing decision that many have had to make. That is to continue to stay in a place where people are spiritually starved for proper teaching of biblical doctrines or to come out of her when you become aware by the leading of the Holy Spirit of some of the man made drivel, false teaching, and confused doctrine that many of todays churches are full of to varying degrees. I chose to leave. I didn't run. As a matter of fact I was vocal about some of the error that was being taught like the R/t, constant self help programs, cleverly hidden Calvinism to some degree, and a few other theological problems. I had many, many private conversations with all the pastors, as I also worked for the church and had an access that many don't have with regular membership. These people were also my friends. I won't go into all the details but I hope you can see that sometimes leaving is what God may be wanting a person to do, and not always for physical limitations.

For me, an incredible amount of growth came after leaving, I'm sure for many different reasons, one I would now say was obedience. Truly seeking Him first in a way that i found myself not doing, although I was doing all the right things according to mans way. I was surrounded by and partook in most every program, group, book, study, service, function, surrounded by the biggest and best of everything (for this small town). My wife and I both worked there, we also were "plugged in", and also served in many voluntary positions. Did I get burned out?
Nope. I was and still am hungry for all that God wants for me and I hope and pray that will include a sound (not perfect) church to attend again. I compromised once for a long time, I will try to never do so again. This is just my experience and I don't or won't paint all churches with the same broad brush.

As far as where would I send someone that I witness to, that is a good and difficult question to answer. I have agonized over that many times. I will continue to do in-house study and fellowship, bible studies, and pray that God shows us both a place to attend. I will continue to use other methods such as this forum, many other web based ministries, and most importantly, allow the Holy Spirit to do His work in us. I couldn't make any one attend my group, study or learn, in or outside of the church.

Water baptism as we know is not a condition of salvation, if a person wanted to act in obediance and couldn't find a church to attend, I would suggest prayer and would consider doing it myself it needed.

Formal instruction, I certainly couldn't recommend my former church, again I would have to rely on the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Many have a sound theology and faith without and some times inspite of a formal church teaching. There are other ways of receiving instuction, face to face would be wonderful if possible.

As far as needing to be with other believers, without a doubt it's what God wants for us. We need to feed, grow, build up eachother and all the other reasons you mentioned, but when that is not possible for what ever reason (I would hope lazyness isn't one of them), then God can still provide a way. Not every believer comes from a western type of worship or has the availability to gather in the same way we do and we may never see them in this life, but are very much a part of the same Body. Are they failing to meet some requirements laid out in scripture?

I'm not rebellious or church bashing in any way, your posts although thought provoking and raise very good questions and concerns, seemed a little harsh towards us who don't attend a church at this time for various reasons. I hope you wouldn't look at us born again believers who don't have a home church at the moment as lesser Christians because of it.

I can still see the encouragement to gather, the need, and benifit that you put into your posts.

May God Bless You, Brother.

[FaithInChrist]

I'm reading and reading and I see so many complaints about what a church doesn't offer you. When we joined our church we knew it was not perfect. There is no such thing as a perfect church because churches are run by humans and humans are not perfect. However, there are churches out there that try very hard to do God's will. The very first time my husband and I went to our church there was some sort of dissention in the church. We didn't know what happened but we knew that several people had left the church because they were upset. Our preacher preaches God's word and he would not allow people to have leadership roles if they were living with somebody unmarried...he preaches the bible, and feels that leaders need to be examples. My husband and I talked and we decided that we really felt the Holy Spirit during fellowship and during the service. After a few weeks we fell in love with our church and we discovered that it isn't always what a church can do for you, but what you can do for a church too. We happily serve in the church now.

BTW our church membership class had this saying at the top of the paperwork they gave us. "We feel that a Christian without a church is like a child without a family" We have been blessed beyond words by joining what appeared to be a Church divided. I am glad we took a chance and didn't judge, we simply jumped in.

[Meg]

So what does it mean to "serve your church"? I guess it depends on the church, but here's a description of my early experiences...

I got called "a babe in Christ" a lot, with a good deal of derision heaped on for special effect.

I begged everybody I could think of for a loan of Christian CD's so I could have something to replace the secular stuff I had just gotten rid of. Garnered a lot of blank looks.

I wanted to talk about the Lord. I seemed to be the only one...

That was the light stiff. It proved utterly pointless to go to churches with the heavy stuff.

Did wonders for my prayer life, going to church and coming home empty.

If it weren't for the man who led me to Christ and mentored me at work for the first year, I never would have made it.

Should I ever be blessed with leading someone else to Christ, either I'll invite them to a very conservative Baptist church i think reasonably well of the preaching there, or we'll meet on Sundays and watch good sermons online then discuss them.

[king'sbloomingrose]

Guys, I just wanted to say this: That oft quoted verse that says, "not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching." Hebrews 10:25 does not say WHERE we are to assemble. Many often believe that is in a church. Well if God had meant that then He would have said so. He just says not to forsaking assembling together of believers and that's exactly what we're doing. We're assembling together and exhorting each other online. But we are still assembling together and fellow shipping with one another. It also says, "For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.” in Mathew 18:20

I bid you all peace!

[Elijah's Mantle]

Mikhen 7 your so very right on

Ill tell you all something Ive discovered recently
there is nothing more precious than having a loving church fellowship to attend . Even if it is small in number

there will come a time in the future
there will be many churches
but no people in them

I believe it grieves God's heart

one of the greatest privileges this side of heaven is being able to gather together with other Brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus and praise and worship God
seeking him

I relate to what your saying very much so Mikhen 7
and I for some unstated reason
do not believe it accidental it was lain on your heart

[mattfivefour]

OK, folks, let's try to get back from gored cows to the essence of the OP. Mikhen7 is coming at this from two positions. The first is that he is a pastor. So clearly he has a position regarding local assemblies. (For the sake of clarity, let us refer to the local "church" as the local "assembly": for that is what it properly is.) But from my knowledge of Mike, the fact that he is a pastor and thus has a vested interest in the local assembly is not the primary reason that he has taken this position. He has posted what he did because he has a pastor's heart. He is concerned for the spiritual health and well-being of Christians combined with concern for the building up of the Body in general.

God made sure to tell us through Paul not to neglect the assembling of ourselves together; especially as the Day of His return draws closer. (Hebrews 10:25) Why? Because WE each, now as Christians, are to live NOT for ourselves but for the sake of the common good. (1 Corinthians 12:7) The local assembly thus exists to stimulate one another (Hebrews 10:24), to love one another (Hebrews 13:1; 1 Peter 1:22), to serve, teach, exhort, give, lead, and show mercy to one another with cheerfulness. (Romans 12:7-8) Every single member of God's Church has his or her place in the local assembly. And there is no person in God's Kingdom who is less important or without a purpose in it. (1 Corinthians 12:14-26).

Now if you are a babe in Christ, a newborn believer, please stop reading right at this point. What I am going to offer now is meat to digest. And I do not want any babe in Christ choking on it. (And please do not think I am being disparaging or elitist. Not at all. I am only considering that what I am about to say can only be accomplished by those who have surrendered all to Christ, have thus through some time had a chance to develop some maturity in Him, and have learned to trust Him in and with their daily lives.)
Does the fact that some (many?) local assemblies today are cold, unloving, filled with selfishness, invalidate God's Word? Of course not. We are not to go into the local assemblies to be built up, but to build up. In doing the latter we shall receive the former.

With the greatest of love I say to you that one of the problems in the Church today is the "me" attitude. We are concerned with the way we are treated more than with what we can do to serve others. I wonder what would have happend were Jesus to have siad to the Father, "You know what? Thesee people are supposed to be Your People Israel, but they are cold to me, they ignore me, and if they do not ignore me they dislike me, they don't care for me, they exclude me from their fellowship ... tell You what. Take me home. I don't want to be here. I am getting nothing from them but hurt."

Hmmm.

Of course, that is silly. He would never have said that; because, though He were God, He came to serve. (Matthew 20:28; Mark 10:45; Luke 22:27). Paul said, "For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more." (1 Corinthians 9:19) From Hebrews 3:5 we learn that God considered Moses "faithful as a servant in all of God's house". He was threatend, cursed at, hated, rejected by those he was sent to help ... just like Christ was. Just like WE are. But each of them served others and not self.

We are called to live as Christ lived, walk as He walked. Thus we are called to serve our fellow man. We have great freedom in Christ, but ALL of that freedom is to be sacrificed for the good of our fellow man and especially for the good of our brother or sister in Christ.

I understand that it is hurtful to be ignored, excluded, gossipped about, even disliked in a body of believers. But those reactions of hurt are the reactions of the flesh. If we go into an assembly believing that we are there to GET something from it, we are going in with the wrong attitude. We are focused on self ... not Jesus ... not others. If we go in with the attitude that we are there to serve Christ, then we are going in with the right attitude. And God will honor that.

I was married to a woman who was mightily gifted by God. Her gifts were so evident that many people felt either threatened or jealous. Additionally she was extremely attractive—a tall, blond, ex-model—and some women (especially wives) were jealous of her great physical beauty. As a result she was the subject of much gossip, lies, and exclusion. She was so hurt by all of that that she withdrew and ceased attending any local assembly. This was a tragedy ... in two ways. First, she deprived those assemblies of her gifts ... though her response was that they didn't want them. Of course, the issue wasn't what the assembly wanted, but what God wanted. Andsecond, she deprived herself of what God would have done for her in those assemblies. I believe firmly to this day that had she obeyed God at the risk of her own feelings that God would have honored that. As it was, she lived with great hurt. It accompanied her to her grave. (Though, of course, she is now where there is joy unspeakable and full of glory! And she will never hurt again! \o/)

My point is this. Yes, it is hard to be ill-treated. But Jesus tells us that if we truly have His love manifest in us, we will not even notice. (1 Corinthians 13:5,7)

This is not a condemnation of those who do not attend a local assembly or have left local assemblies out of hurt. It is instead an encouragement and an exhortation. And additionally it is a prayer for you. If you are unable to attend a local assembly because of illness, incapacity, or work, then I understand. RF exists, in part, for just such people. But for those who have ceased going to a local assembly because they have felt hurt, then I pray that the Holy Spirit heal those hurts in you that flare up when provoked. I pray that the Holy Spirit work in you to place your eyes and affections on Jesus Christ and His will to the exclusion of your own feelings and will. I pray that you may take your place as a shining light in the darkness of some local assembly that is badly in need of God's light. LIke the Ladociean church, many assemblies today are "are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked." I pray that you may be the me4ssenger of Christ whose very behavior and presence convicts them and whose love for them leads them to turn to Jesus christ who alone is worthy and alone can help them.

What greater work could there be than this? A true building of gold, silver, and precious stones (1 Corinthians 3:12)—serving Him by modeling and promoting righteousness, serving Him by actively engaging in modeling and proclaiming the gospel of salvation, and serving Him by building up and helping the saints to grow and shine by your love, even in the face of hurt—all upon the foundation of Jesus Christ.

What a reward will await in Heaven on the day when Christ makes up His jewels and distributes His crowns!!!

3 Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves; 4 do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. 5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure. 14 Do all things without grumbling or disputing; 15 so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life ... (Philippians 2:3-16a NASB)

The choice of course is yours and mine. We can live with care for how we are treated, or ignore ourselves in order to serve our Savior and Lord. We can be concerned with protecting self; or we can live concerned with serving Him, regardless of the cost. I have made my own decision and though I am weak, I am trusting in the Lord our God to provide the strength to live as He has called us to live.

Pastors sometimes say things that pull the scabs off our wounds. And MAN! Do they hurt! Pastor Mike Henderson has done that with this thread. If you could re-read al of the posts here dispassionately you will see what I say is true.

Anyway, I pray this response of mine will help some one of you to go before the Lord to allow Him to correct as He will in your life so that you may be the blessing to others that He so greatly desires.

[Elijah's Mantle]

BTW our church membership class had this saying at the top of the paperwork they gave us. "We feel that a Christian without a church is like a child without a family"

God Bless you real big for sharing that

The privilege of having some things is worth more than all the Gold in the whole world

[ShilohRose]

I'm actually highly offended by your post. This forum has been my salvation when it comes to having somewhere to fellowship and get encouragement and teaching and prayer. We may not be able to physically hug others here but the kindness and caring of the members here (especially those of you who have sent me a PM from time to time) have been very comforting.

Just because I don't go to Church regularly or at all doesn't mean I cannot Serve God. Not all of God's people sit in Churches either.

Mainly due to my chronic Illnesses I cannot attend my local Church regularly. They are not my main place of fellowship. I have been there for 13 years and I have despite having served there and been involved in many Ladies groups never had any of them offer me friendship. When I got very sick and was not be able to go I quickly found out how shallow these women are, no phone calls or messages sent to me through my husband.

The men at our Church are more concerned about my long absences that any of the women. My hubby goes fairly regularly because it is his only form of Fellowship and the only ones that ask about me are some of his men friends.

I don't need up close and personal friendships.

I meet together with like minded Christians here and it suits me quite fine. I have from a few previous forums kept in contact with a few members I got to know well and we email each other regularly. Being in different countries it is the easiest form of communication for us. We have a genuine friendship despite the distance and form of communication. We often share with each other and minister to each other and hold each other up in prayer. These email friends have been more concerned and involved in my life than the Ladies I know from my Church.

As for Sharing the Gospel? Well if you have to Evangelise in a Church then the Church you are going to must be full of UnSaved people & I would have to wonder why that is?

I Share the Gospel with non-Christians in Secular situations outside my Church.

A Church is not the Body of Christ. It is a man made institution that can have both Saved Believers and the UnSaved in it. There is no guarantee that a Church is truly serving God if it has a Heretic Pastor or it is full of Believers following False Teachings.

The Body of Christ is only made up of those who have Repented and Recieved Christ. Whenever a Saved Believer gets together with another Saved Believer that is true fellowship. If we are Gods we will be available for the Lord to use us for His service.

Yes not everybody who is a Christian avoids going to Church or Fellowships on a Forum. For those of you who like to gather physically in a Church feel free to do so. It's fine with me! But please don't insult me for not going to Church and accuse me of not serving God.

My Christian friends from my past University days come over to my house and phone me and provide me with genuine physical (in the flesh) friendship/fellowship. They are busy and can rarely manage to do so but they do so when they can.

My Church is very Cliquey I am not the only woman to complain about it to the minister. Many have left because they didn't fit in with the women there. I don't have the Health or Strength to go elsewhere but the MEN are different. There are quite a few Godly men and my husband needs his fellowship and I'm not willing to make him leave for me when I can get my needs met here at RF. Basically I am still chronically ill wouldn't be able to spend the energy trying to establish new friendships elsewhere.

Sorry but many Churches today are not the great place of Fellowship and Teaching they once were. I think many Churches have a lot of ungodly aspects in they way they function today because of the people that do attend and these people are not willing to change. There are many, many, many Weeds amongst the Wheat these days.


I can do far more work for God outside the Church than in it!

[Carl]

I was going to beat the cow some more, but read MattFiveFour post #17. It really spells it out without the examples. Well said Matt.