America's New Poor

[Meg]

America's new poor - CBS News

(CBS News) While most of us are already looking forward to our Thanksgiving feast, one in six Americans isn't sure where their next meal will come from. And as Mark Strassmann tells us . . . we're finding the hungry in some unexpected places:


In Forsyth County's rolling subdivisions near Atlanta, Easy Street seems to run forever. What recession? The average household here earns $88,000 - the highest in Georgia, 13th highest in America.

But for more families here, prosperity is a pretense. The job's lost, the savings are gone, and the big house is either in foreclosure or on its way. And just keeping food on the table is a struggle.

So Forsyth's newly-needy file into local food banks.

Yesterday's GIVERS have become today's TAKERS.

"People lost their jobs and went from great incomes to no incomes," said Sandy Beaver, Sandy Beaver leads The Place, Forsyth County's biggest non-profit center for social services. She calls those who visit The Place "the new poor."

[WhisperWisdom]

It's called living beyond your means all these years. In my own job, folks are having the option to do early retirement, which is nearly the entire office, and most of those making higher wages than me are worried about how they're going to survive on a monthly check every month. Mind you, their monthly wages would be significant and nothing to sneeze at, yet they're in so much debt that they're not sure how they can make it.

Right now, these voluntary buyouts are just that....voluntary. I have a feeling that soon it won't be so voluntary and that the govt will start forcing people to retire just to save money.

[Hannah]

It is ashame about the people you work with WhipserWisdom but that isn't a representation of all people across the USA.

Not everybody in America spent beyond their means and those who are now strugling are not ALL the victims of their own spending.

That is just what the economists want you to believe. I can tell you Business or Corporate Debt and Government Debt has a lot to do with it and individual debt is a drop in the bucket.

Having worked in the Finance/Banking Industry for many, many years now I know the figures of debt by corporations versus the individual. Have some individuals gone overboard on their credit cards? Some do but the majority pay them off quickly and some regularly pay them off on time. The amount of people who remain in debt on credit cards really isn't as big as the Economists who give the information to the media make it out to be, especially when you separate corporate cards from individuals who hold credit cards. You would be amazed at how large the debts are on credit cards held by government and businesses.

So who has put America in such debt? Individuals? Most people have not only reigned in their spending there have always been some who have spent sensibly and have only used a credit when aboslutely necessary. Few have the money to buy a car or house in cash and those who take out a loan for these have not tipped us over the edge financially. Many people have had to take on debt for medical expenses, that is not frivilous spending. Not everybody has been going overboard buying beyond their means. I know plenty of people who are very frugal and manage within their pay.

Why do we have so many people who do not know where their next meal is coming from today? So many businesses have gone under and many have ended up unemployed. There are towns with mass unemployment because the companies that sustained the towns have shut down. Many businesses have gone overseas to make larger profits because they can pay much less for staff overseas so people back home are now unemployed.

Don't just plant this on the backs of individuals. I have seen the obscene spending of corporations and losses due to failed ventures or investments. Have you forgotten so quickly about Bernie Madoff and there were Billions of dollars corporations and individuals thought they had but it was all on paper and disappeared overnight. Whose debt & greed and money mismanagement has caused the problems in the USA and across the world?

The debts of either government or corporations that have caused far more problems than the combined debt of individuals. You have to remember Banks set the credit card limits and pushed debt onto people who they knew couldn't afford it. Even peoples cats and dogs were getting free credit cards sent to them in the mail along with underage children in a push from banks to get as many people hooked and in over their heads as possible.

So we now have the situtaion we do, high unemployment, many people who have lost savings in banks wiped out as they banks went over and others who have lost homes even though they had diligently kept up their repayments. Not all the fault of the individual spending more than they earned.

Many repsonsible people who never lived beyond their means have lost savings and homes and now have nothing but their jobs and if they go they are on the streets wondering where their next meal is coming from. If these sensible spenders do some how lose their jobs and end up on the streets it wasn't their fault they are there but that of others.

Not every person who is out of work and on the streets got there by their own foolish mistakes. Some did but others are victims of other people's greed.

[livin_in_the_Son]

You believe every person in America spent beyond their means and those who are now strugling are the victims of their own spending?

That is just what the economists want you to believe. I can tell you Business or Corporate Debt and Government Debt has a lot to do with it and individual debt is a drop in the bucket.

Having worked in the Finance/Banking Industry for many, many years now I know the figures of debt by corporations versus the individual. Have some individuals gone overboard on their credit cards? Some do but the majority pay them off quickly and some regularly pay them off on time. The amount of people who remain in debt on credit cards really isn't as big as the Economists who give the information to the media make it out to be, especially when you separate corporate cards from individuals who hold credit cards. You would be amazed at how large the debts are on credit cards held by government and businesses.

So who has put America in such debt? Individuals? Most people have not only reigned in their spending there have always been some who have spent sensibly and have only used a credit when aboslutely necessary. Few have the money to buy a caror house in cash and those who take out a loan for these have not tipped us over the edge financially. Many people have had to take on debt for medical expenses, that is not frivilous spending. Not everybody has been going overboard buying beyond their means. I know plenty of people who are very frugal and manage within their pay.

Why do we have so many people who do not know where their next meal is coming from today? So many businesses have gone under and many have ended up unemployed. There are towns with mass unemployment because the companies that sustained the towns have shut down. Many businesses have gone overseas to make larger profits because they can pay much less for staff overseas so people back home are now unemployed.

Don't just plant this on the backs of individuals. I have seen the obscene spending of corporations and losses due to failed ventures or investments. Have you forgotten so quickly about Bernie Madoff and there were Billions of dollars corporations and individuals thought they had but it was all on paper and disappeared overnight. Whose debt & greed and money mismanagement has caused the problems in the USA and across the world?

The debts of individuals either in government or corporations that have caused far more problems than the combined debt of individuals. You have to remember Banks set the credit card limits and pushed debt onto people who they knew couldn't afford it. Even peoples cats and dogs were getting free credit cards sent to them in the mail along with underage children in a push from banks to get as many people hooked and in over their heads as possible.

So we now have the situtaion we do, high unemployment, many people who have lost savings in banks wiped out as they banks went over and others who have lost homes even though they had diligently kept up their repayments. Not all the fault of the individual spending more than they earned.

Many repsonsible people who never lived beyond their means have lost savings and homes and now have nothing but their jobs and if they go they are on the streets wonderig where their next meal is coming from. If they do lose their jobs to ill health and end up on the streets it wasn't their fault they are there but that of others.

Not every person who is out of work and on the streets got there by their own foolish mistakes. Some did but others are victims of other people's greed.

I agree with you! I think that most people are one paycheck away from bankruptcy...my hubby and I have NO credit cards at all...but we are budgeted for what the gas prices, and the food costs from months ago...back then a weeks worth of groceries were $150, now it's more like $250, and we eat more peanut butter and ramen noodles, and buy less diapers. Even with my husband averaging 17 hours of OT a week, it's more God's doing then our creative bill paying that keeps us in a house.

If a morgage payment depends on a paycheck, and one isn't coming, that's not living beyond your means. I would like to meet someone who paid cash for their house.

[Hannah]

I agree with you! I think that most people are one paycheck away from bankruptcy...my hubby and I have NO credit cards at all...but we are budgeted for what the gas prices, and the food costs from months ago...back then a weeks worth of groceries were $150, now it's more like $250, and we eat more peanut butter and ramen noodles, and buy less diapers. Even with my husband averaging 17 hours of OT a week, it's more God's doing then our creative bill paying that keeps us in a house.

If a morgage payment depends on a paycheck, and one isn't coming, that's not living beyond your means. I would like to meet someone who paid cash for their house.

One of my step-chidren is married with a baby and in the same situation as you are. She has been with her hubby for a few years before falling pregnant but both being on low paid incomes never really had the ability to save much and having the baby what they have saved is now gone. They live from pay to pay and NO CREDIT cards. The family helps out when we can.

Yes I know many people like yourselves.

I also unfortunately know many people like the co-workers of WhipserWisdom. I used to work in computing before I got very sick and had to stop work and I am now almost 50 and have a few friends who I used to work with in the situation they described. People in my profession earn a lot of money. They bought a house and got lots of equity in them. The banks I worked with came up with a new way to keep these people indebt. It was called an equity loan. Many years ago you had to get personal loans for renovating your home or going on a holiday. However the Banks and Financial Advisors started getting into people's ears and convincing them their retirement was a long way of and why don't they tap into the equity of their home and get these things they wanted because they will pay it off before they retire. Now with people's jobs on the line they are being retrenced and there is little work for them out there or forced into early retirement. However they still have a very large mortgage to pay off and need to keep working.

Those with large incomes have been deceived and led into this debt. I know the sickening ploys the banks used. Financial advisors got kickbacks every time they got people to take out money against their mortgages. That wasn't enough for the banks and they soon offered this new equity loans to retirees who fully own their own homes (how are they going to pay off a loan?).

It is sad because there are many people with University degrees who really don't have any financial understanding that are in high paid jobs. Being educated doesn't make you money smart. I've seen many high paid professional fall for this because they trust the Financial Advisor is working for them and wouldn't be giving them BAD financial advice. Even high paid professionals can be deceived in financial matters.

[readyforhome]

The fact is that both people and the financial istitutions are at fault for the current financial mess people are in. I KNOW that there are many banks and money handlers who have fallen prey to greed, and have mismanaged the people that entrusted their money to them. However, I know of plenty of people who have lived far beyond their means. I and my wife are starting to get our debt under control. Even with this my wife wanted to buy a new high definition flat screen when we have a perfectly good television at home. And I am not trying to bad mouth my wife, as I know she is smart, probably smarter than me. My goals are to keep my bills paid and to get my debt under control. I have gotten a feeling I should be planting a garden, and I honestly feel like it was a message from the Holy Spirit, though I can also say it could be an idea I got from paying attention to what is going on.

[Carl]

Last year I saw a lawyer talking about how many people are really trying to make it. She started out by talking about right after WWII and the husbands coming back into the work place. Since the husband and wife were desiring to catch up for the time lost during the war they both worked. The economy was booming, and they were able to get their start.

But while they were working the government started to expand and redistribute. Social Security expanded. Property taxes went up to pay for new services. Income tax increased. Income tax also went up because its graduations followed income, while the dollar was inflated. Wages followed inflation, but the income tax took more and more of a families purchasing power. The price of everything followed inflation, except what the government took.

As time went on families were purchasing hamburger rather than steak. Buying cheaper cars. Saving wherever they could. But not the point has been reached that many are now the working poor. On top of that we now are in the worst period of unemployment probably since the depression.

As Hanna said many are not wasting their money or spending unwisely, they are trapped by circumstances way beyond their control. Now wages are going down while taxes and government cost is rising. What is the solution?

[Meg]

I disagree with this assumption that higher taxes ruined the economy. That is a Republican Party line that has high appeal to the wealthy, but lacks a critical truth. The truth is that between the late 1940's and the early 1990's, America had a lot of manufacturing jobs. A large percentage of the population was working in plants, and a lot of the goods sold in the US were made in the US. Then corporate executives got really greedy. They started moving manufacturing overseas where the wages of the workers were pennies instead of dollars, meanwhile the price of the items such as tennis shoes with hyped brand names to fake their actual value quadrupled.

I remember driving down I-95 in the southeast, where billboards once advertised towels and household linens made in the South from cotton grown in the south. The billboards are gone now as are the jobs. Cars once had all their parts made in the US, now many car parts and whole vehicles are made anywhere but. Friends used to work in plants making computer components. Now China does all that. Finally, even telephone jobs were outsourced by the thousands, I remember hearing the death knell on the news. Jobs sold to the lowest bidder in lots of over 10,000, grieving for the states and the people.

No jobs means no money. Meanwhile, the price of rents and homes became brutally exploitative. The price for rents for identical apartments in one state would be twice, three times the price in another. It has been clear for at least 30 years that this pattern was going to be unsustainable, yet those who still had money kept shifting the blame and lying to themselves. They still do. 40 years ago, most of the people in the state of SC worked in fabric mills. Now most are on Disability, because there are not enough jobs left in the region to employ people so that they can pay into the tax base rather than draw from it. The few are still benefiting at the expense of the many, as corp[orations use their enormous profits to pay bribes to individual politicians, rather than pay taxes, let alone wages. THAT is the cold truth.

[Meg]

theTrumpet.com by the Philadelphia Church of God

For over a half century, American manufacturing has dominated the globe. It turned the tide in World War ii and hastened the defeat of Nazi Germany; it subsequently helped rebuild Europe and Japan; it enabled the United States to outlast the Soviet empire in the Cold War. At the same time, it met all the material needs of the American people.

During this period, many American icons were born. Companies like General Motors, Ford, Boeing, Maytag and Levi Strauss became household names. American manufacturing became synonymous with quality and ingenuity.

On the back of this industrial output rose America’s middle class. High-paying manufacturing jobs, in turn, helped spur a robust and growing economy that depended little on foreign nations for manufactured goods and armaments.

However, manufacturing as a share of the economy has been plummeting. In 1965, manufacturing accounted for 53 percent of the economy. By 1988 it only accounted for 39 percent, and in 2004, it accounted for just 9 percent.

Considering the stupendous list of America’s manufacturing achievements and the vulnerabilities associated with foreign dependence when a nation lacks strong domestic manufacturing, it is alarming when economists are warning that the U.S. is facing the “gutting, hollowing out and closing down of American manufacturing forever” (Benson’s Economic & Market Trends, Feb. 27, 2004).

Admirers of globalization contend that freer access to foreign markets and cheap labor increase corporate profits and thereby benefit the U.S. economy. While this argument may superficially sound compelling, it ignores the dangerous long-term effects of manufacturing losses. In reality, outsourcing makes Americans poorer over time, because America’s wealth and technology slowly migrate to other nations.

In the words of the Daily Reckoning, “Historically, manufacturing, exporting and direct investment produced prosperity through income creation” (April 4, 2003). America’s wealth grew when profits from domestic manufacturing were reinvested into buildings, machinery and technological change. But now outsourcing is diverting that income to foreigners.

America may gain access to cheaper products through outsourcing, but it also comes with attendant problems, including a downward pressure on wages. Laid-off manufacturing laborers are largely switching into lower-paying jobs in the service industry. Where they once made an average of $51,000 annually, they now make $16,000 in leisure and hospitality, $33,000 in health care, or $39,000 in construction (Seattle Times, op. cit). In 2004, average employee compensation in the U.S. fell for the first time in 14 years.

If America does not manufacture and sell goods, then money only leaves the country.

Every time an American manufacturer closes and then reopens elsewhere, the foreign country gains American technology. Not having to spend resources developing technology, foreigners can focus on improving or beating it.

Many developing nations, especially China and India, are notorious for their lack of intellectual and technological property rights. According to David Pritchard, a research associate at State University of New York, American companies are hastening their demise by sharing valuable technology with foreign governments intent on setting up their own industries. This is exactly what is happening with aircraft manufacturer Boeing, which has been outsourcing labor in China, Japan and other countries.

Globalization admirers contend that because the work forces of developing nations are unskilled, they cannot compete with the U.S.; thus, only low-end, low-skill jobs are lost to outsourcing. However, this is not true. The Asian workforce, in particular, has made huge strides.

Its not just college grads... I know of a local factory who was sending people over to China to train them to do the jobs that the corporation planned to sell over there. It took them longest to master the more complex technologies, but given time and training, the Chinese mastered the jobs and got them too.

The so-called "leaders" in this country worship money alone, and this is where that is leading. Its not that poor Americans won't try, its not this socialism some people wine about. Its about institutional greed and an insatiable lust for very large profits.

[WhisperWisdom]

Everyone brought up some good points. It's easy to forget other perspectives sometimes when you're only dealing with one aspect of the situation. I have a good job, and have some really great coworkers. But even with a good job, I'm struggling myself to get food on the table and to pay the bills. Been trying to use coupons, and while I have been getting some savings, I'm nowhere near being an extreme couponer, nor do I even have the room to store all the extra items they get.

At the end of the day, it's on a wing and a prayer for all of us.

[livin_in_the_Son]

Everyone brought up some good points. It's easy to forget other perspectives sometimes when you're only dealing with one aspect of the situation. I have a good job, and have some really great coworkers. But even with a good job, I'm struggling myself to get food on the table and to pay the bills. Been trying to use coupons, and while I have been getting some savings, I'm nowhere near being an extreme couponer, nor do I even have the room to store all the extra items they get.

At the end of the day, it's on a wing and a prayer for all of us.

Don't even bother trying to become one of those...once again the rush of becoming famous has ruined something. I recently saw a news report that said that stores were starting to limit how these people use coupons (like combining, etc) so extreme couponing will come to an end for everyone NOT being followed by a TLC camera crew. Besides, I would think having 100 rolls of paper towels is beyond extreme, and all those canned goods can't possibly fall in with trust in the Lord.

[Bobbi]

I disagree with this assumption that higher taxes ruined the economy. That is a Republican Party line that has high appeal to the wealthy, but lacks a critical truth. The truth is that between the late 1940's and the early 1990's, America had a lot of manufacturing jobs. A large percentage of the population was working in plants, and a lot of the goods sold in the US were made in the US. Then corporate executives got really greedy. They started moving manufacturing overseas where the wages of the workers were pennies instead of dollars, meanwhile the price of the items such as tennis shoes with hyped brand names to fake their actual value quadrupled.

I remember driving down I-95 in the southeast, where billboards once advertised towels and household linens made in the South from cotton grown in the south. The billboards are gone now as are the jobs. Cars once had all their parts made in the US, now many car parts and whole vehicles are made anywhere but. Friends used to work in plants making computer components. Now China does all that. Finally, even telephone jobs were outsourced by the thousands, I remember hearing the death knell on the news. Jobs sold to the lowest bidder in lots of over 10,000, grieving for the states and the people.

No jobs means no money. Meanwhile, the price of rents and homes became brutally exploitative. The price for rents for identical apartments in one state would be twice, three times the price in another. It has been clear for at least 30 years that this pattern was going to be unsustainable, yet those who still had money kept shifting the blame and lying to themselves. They still do. 40 years ago, most of the people in the state of SC worked in fabric mills. Now most are on Disability, because there are not enough jobs left in the region to employ people so that they can pay into the tax base rather than draw from it. The few are still benefiting at the expense of the many, as corp[orations use their enormous profits to pay bribes to individual politicians, rather than pay taxes, let alone wages. THAT is the cold truth.

Meg I agree with you, but the Unions didn't help when they just kept asking for more and more. In my husbands company a janitor makes $1200.00 a month more than an administration assistant because the janitor job is a Union job. When the Unions forced employers to pay through the nose companies did find it cheaper to more over seas where people were happy to have a job. Should the Lord tarry and Union people get the chance to see how much money they can get from these employees in other countries you can bet the will be there sucking off them also.

[Hannah]

Everyone brought up some good points. It's easy to forget other perspectives sometimes when you're only dealing with one aspect of the situation. I have a good job, and have some really great coworkers. But even with a good job, I'm struggling myself to get food on the table and to pay the bills. Been trying to use coupons, and while I have been getting some savings, I'm nowhere near being an extreme couponer, nor do I even have the room to store all the extra items they get.

At the end of the day, it's on a wing and a prayer for all of us.

I know what you mean. I was frugal when I used to work in IT even with a good wage and used to wonder where my pay went some days (one place it went was trying to pay off the house as quickly as possible).

I don't work now, haven't for 9 years because my chronic illnesses got so bad I had to stop. Never thought I could live on less than I earned back when I worked. I discovered much of my wages went to paying others so I could work. Since I did easily an average 10 hour day and had a long drive to and from work and my husband also worked full time in computing as well. We had to hire people to do things for us around the house. All that was not longer necessary when I stopped work except getting the lawn mowed (I couldn't do it, too sick and my hubby was always too tired).

You don't have to have a luxurious lifestyle or bad spending habits even for a good wage to disappear quickly. Most of our good wage went into some minor renovations to fix this old house we bought and the mortgage at least I know where some of our money actually went and we put some in our Superannutation fund (retirement funds).

Yes I have been on both sides of the fence, good paying job and now I am supported by my husband. Recently my husband also got chronically ill. We both inherited genetic sicknesses of our parents/grandparents. So we are both not working. Just as well I am fairly bedridden these days but my hubby is a bit more able to care for himself and he does a lot around the house and does the shopping. We have currently a small sickness benefit from income insurance my hubby had. It has a limited period and will soon run out. However my hubby is old enough now to tap into what Australia has enforced for retirement years ago called Superannutation. So we will have a something to still live on (less again than we currently have) and with that we can hopefully get some Government assistance (not holding my breath but we should receive some assistance for our electricity, phone and water).

Like you have said WhisperWisdom we are all having to put our daily provision into the hands of the Lord. I have found that I have had to exercise not getting anxious but trusting God somehow the decreasing amount we have had to live on since I stopped work is enough. Once I had a good wage but we have lived on less than that these past few years and soon will have to live on less again. No matter if you have a fairly good wage or are really low paid we all have to be frugal to and watch our pennies to make it cover our living expenses.

These past few years have certainly been a challenge in Trusting God especially since my health is far worse now and my husband's health hasn't improved, so there is no way either of us could possibly manage to work even if we wanted to!

[Suzanne]

This thread has really touched my heart. I can see so many of my family members in the situations that people have described.

Two of my siblings have filed bankruptcy more than once due to credit cards. It's not that they have went on wild spending binges, but that they've had to pay medical bills for chronic illnesses that will last their lifetimes.

I have a nephew who just signed back up in the military after about a year of teaching school. This young man was born to a teen mom whose father never was there for either of them. He had and has a good mother, and he finished high school and immediately went to work at the local hospital. Over twelve years, he worked his way into probably the hardest of the technical jobs there. In order to become a doctor or pharmacist, he joined the national guard for a couple of hitches. While enlisted, he got both his Bachelor's and Master's degrees. This is the second year that he's teaching high school in a rural area. He and his wife are both having problems getting a job in the area where their home and adult children are. They own a home in my area of Oregon (Western), and he teaches in Eastern Oregon. His wife is a teacher who is currently unemployed so that she could move with him when he left to teach. My nephew also owes $40,000 dollars for his Master's degree. So now, he has re-enlisted and enrolled in officer's school. I went to his 'facebook' page and was going to write something to him. I noticed all the well wishes from friends and family. I decided not to write anything right now, because I would have to tell him how I really feel, and I won't add to his burdens. His mother (my sister) and I, were finally able to breathe easy when he was discharged from the guard a couple of years ago. I was so afraid that he would end up in Iran or Afghanistan, and he's the kind of man that would give his life to save someone elses'. Now, we'll be back to worrying the way that so many other mothers and family members do over their children that are in the ME fighting for all the rest of us. I've decided to just pray and turn his safety over to the Lord and try not to worry. I, of course, did that the last time, but I couldn't help but worry. He is a Christian so that does help me feel better about his future.

I've seen so many people criticizing the "Occupy" group. While I know there are some that are the extreme fringe, there are others who are protesting due to other reasons.
The truth is that our government, banking system, Wall Street, corporations, health system, big pharma, unions, etc., etc., are extremely corrupt, and many ordinary people have suffered due to their policies. We are all individually responsible, but it's hard to do well when the playing field is tilted in just a few people's favor.

The truth is that the only way any of this mess is going to be fixed is when Jesus Christ rules and reigns. That's what keeps me going when life doesn't look exactly rosy. Jesus is coming back soon and making everything brand new. Come quickly, Lord Jesus Christ!

[mikhen7]

Since the discussion is revolving around many reasons why people suffer some with good jobs, some who have a lesser paying job, and some who have no job we have to consider they all have there own story. I agree with most of the points made as well. But considering greed in jobs going overseas: I see the the jobs going overseas not so much from greed-some are- but from unfair import practices. I remember the day when no one wanted to buy a tool in made in China or Japan because it was cheap and poor quality. Then all of a sudden the cheap stuff started selling like wild fire and the industries in America had to start shutting down, laying off, and lowering wages to stay in business. Soon after, they could no longer compete with the cheap imports so to lower prices they had to go to sweatshops in china to produce a product. I think greed followed practicality. That is to say it was practical at first to stay in business helping some keep their jobs rather than all losing them. But the immense profits from the lower wages soon turned to greed. And money is the root of all evil.

God bless

[mattfivefour]

To be correct, bro, it is the LOVE of money that is the root of all evil.

Actually the KJV translation is not very clear on this specific point. In the Greek it says that the love of money is A root of the evils (plural), not the root of ALL evil. if anything, the Greek construction could be translated as "a root of all kinds of evil". Thus, a better translation would be "A root, indeed, of the evils ("of all kinds of evils") is the love of money, which some stretching after (ὀρεγόμενοι = stretching, reaching, longing after) were seduced away from the faith and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." While avarice is not one of the biblical deadly sins, it is revealed in the Word that loving money often leads to coveting and idolatry. And those indeed will inevitably lead to many sorrows. We are to love God and people, not possessions and power.

[mikhen7]

To be correct, bro, it is the LOVE of money that is the root of all evil.

Actually the KJV translation is not very clear on this specific point. In the Greek it says that the love of money is A root of the evils (plural), not the root of ALL evil. if anything, the Greek construction could be translated as "a root of all kinds of evil". Thus, a better translation would be "A root, indeed, of the evils ("of all kinds of evils") is the love of money, which some stretching after (ὀρεγόμενοι = stretching, reaching, longing after) were seduced away from the faith and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." While avarice is not one of the biblical deadly sins, it is revealed in the Word that loving money often leads to coveting and idolatry. And those indeed will inevitably lead to many sorrows. We are to love God and people, not possessions and power.

Oh my precious brother, what a fine shining gift God has given you! Treasure it well and never stop offering it up to HIS GLORY!!

God Bless you!

[Robert]

In short: it's not necessarily a case of "what did you do wrong to end up like this?", but a entire plethora of factors. Yes, there are folks out there who are making poor financial decisions, and they are paying the price for it. But we're now also finding that its' not uncommon to run into folks who didn't do a thing to mess up and still got hit with the proverbial "gunblast" of staggering bills, unsustainable cost of living, unemployment/underemployment, and dwindling benefits across the board. We cannot assume that someone "deserved" to be in debt or homeless unless we really know what happened to them; what we see may not be the whole picture.

That said, we are living in strange times indeed, and they are going to get stranger still as we draw near the day when the Lord comes for his Bride. All of us are going to have to rely on the Lord more and more as we serve Him in these last days, and our resolve to serve Him is going to be tested. It's not going to be easy, and we're going to have to hold the ground we have been given to stand on: the Word of God. That, prayer, and humble submission to and trust in the Lord are going to be what all of us who believe will have to sustain us in these times, as we rely upon the Lord alone to get us through until either death or the Rapture. It's not going to be easy to hold the course, but God hasn't abandoned us nor left us to rot.

Yeah: we're going out on a limb of sorts. But the Lord never asks us to do something without backing us up.

[GlennO]

Okay, I'll play....after most all the fur has been beaten off the topic. My POV is decidedly American.

We have an entire topic dedicated to One World Government (OWG). How is it you wring your hands? Do you not know the times and the seasons?

We have toilets that flush, roofs that do not leak, freshwater as hot as we want to bathe in, pure drinking water that we do not worry about cholera or parasites.

What sort of electronic device(s) do you use daily without a thought. Unwed mothers cannot be burdened with breast-feeding. Buy a roast it will feed you for a week and never order food from a chain. We're all using electricity to power our conversations, not candlelight.

We have failed at least two generations by entrusting our children to progressive (socialist) teachers while most of us chased the almighty dollar.

The western cultures are being beaten down into a one-size fits all economy. The Republicans did this to us? Really...? Corporations that sell shares in their enterprise have a legal (fiduciary) obligation to remain competitive and increase the value of the stock shares. If they can not make their widgets in the western world, they are compelled to move where they can make widgets that are priced competitively in the world marketplace...period!

The USA economy is into an a slow-motion collapse. Men's hearts are failing them from fear (Luke 21:26a). We are witnessing the globalization of the world's economy. We are seeing the world economy being transformed into a two class system before our eyes.

Jesus said: Look up your redemption draws nigh (Luke 21:28)

Look at the night view of the Korean Peninsula, the South is bright, and the North is dark.

We have mobility! We can read five different bible translations and freely and discuss our faith without fear. On the other side of the world there is intense hunger for the Word of God (and it is sought at great risk).

Economically, I'm pretty secure. But I have no illusion as to the certainty of the riches of this world. I'm keenly aware I could wake up tomorrow (or not)...and find that overnight the "my" world has changed fundamentally.

I do necessarily not want to offend because we are family, but I believe some of us have some unrealistic expectations about our future. Yup, we all hate change....it's in the DNA of our fallen nature.

[mikhen7]

Okay, I'll play....after most all the fur has been beaten off the topic. My POV is decidedly American.

We have an entire topic dedicated to One World Government (OWG). How is it you wring your hands? Do you not know the times and the seasons?

We have toilets that flush, roofs that do not leak, freshwater as hot as we want to bathe in, pure drinking water that we do not worry about cholera or parasites.

What sort of electronic device(s) do you use daily without a thought. Unwed mothers cannot be burdened with breast-feeding. Buy a roast it will feed you for a week and never order food from a chain. We're all using electricity to power our conversations, not candlelight.

We have failed at least two generations by entrusting our children to progressive (socialist) teachers while most of us chased the almighty dollar.

The western cultures are being beaten down into a one-size fits all economy. The Republicans did this to us? Really...? Corporations that sell shares in their enterprise have a legal (fiduciary) obligation to remain competitive and increase the value of the stock shares. If they can not make their widgets in the western world, they are compelled to move where they can make widgets that are priced competitively in the world marketplace...period!

The USA economy is into an a slow-motion collapse. Men's hearts are failing them from fear (Luke 21:26a). We are witnessing the globalization of the world's economy. We are seeing the world economy being transformed into a two class system before our eyes.

Jesus said: Look up your redemption draws nigh (Luke 21:28)

Look at the night view of the Korean Peninsula, the South is bright, and the North is dark.

We have mobility! We can read five different bible translations and freely and discuss our faith without fear. On the other side of the world there is intense hunger for the Word of God (and it is sought at great risk).

Economically, I'm pretty secure. But I have no illusion as to the certainty of the riches of this world. I'm keenly aware I could wake up tomorrow (or not)...and find that overnight the "my" world has changed fundamentally.

I do necessarily not want to offend because we are family, but I believe some of us have some unrealistic expectations about our future. Yup, we all hate change....it's in the DNA of our fallen nature.

GlennO, your post mirrors my own heart just last week I posted the following: Truth Inspires: The Peace God Desires we Have!

Count me in the thankful bunch! I refuse to allow Satan to get a foothold in my life, by the grace of God!! PTL