Feast of trumpets and the rapture.

[daygo]

Have been reading about the feast of trumpets and the rapture. This is really interesting stuff, had been thinking along the lines of the 7 feasts the first 4 have been fulfilled and now the next three are awaiting fulfillment. What if the rapture was on this feast of trumpets next would be day of atonement ( the tribulation. ) then we would be in the tabernacles and the millenium. Am not saying it will be but what I have read up to now certainly points that way. Any one else read about the above.

[acceptedinthebeloved]

Have been reading about the feast of trumpets and the rapture. This is really interesting stuff, had been thinking along the lines of the 7 feasts the first 4 have been fulfilled and now the next three are awaiting fulfillment. What if the rapture was on this feast of trumpets next would be day of atonement ( the tribulation. ) then we would be in the tabernacles and the millenium. Am not saying it will be but what I have read up to now certainly points that way. Any one else read about the above.

I believe that this view is based (basically) on Matthew 24:36 (see also Matthew 24:29-31, which I believe gives the context of the phrase "but of that day and hour knoweth no man"... which is referring to His Second Coming, the time of His prophesied/promised earthly Millennial Kingdom... not our rapture, which Paul was given to explain elsewhere).

Here is an excerpt of an article by Dr. Thomas Ice which I have posted elsewhere (and with which I agree):

ISRAEL'S FEASTS AND THE CHURCH

It must be admitted that most dispensational premillennialists have tended to see at least one of the Israel's feasts fulfilled by the church. The feast of Pentecost is usually seen as fulfilled by the church at her birthday in Acts 2 by many dispensationalists. This creates a problem since it is inconsistent with maintaining a consistent distinction between God's plan for Israel and His plan for the church. This errant notion that the church fulfills the Feast of Pentecost gives ground and a basis to Miller's perspective that the church also fulfills the Feast of Trumpets in the rapture. If this were true, then it would also follow that the rapture would have to occur on the day in which that feast is celebrated. However, I do not think that the church fulfills any of Israel's feasts. Israel's feasts have been and will continue to be fulfilled in relation to Israel.


Terry C. Hulbert wrote a doctoral dissertation in 1965 at Dallas Theological Seminary entitled "The Eschatological Significance of Israel's Annual Feasts." Hulbert declares,


The seven appointed times were given as a typical presentation of the commitments made to Israel in the Abrahamic Covenant and those which amplified it. As these can be fulfilled only by Israel, so the typology of the feasts can relate only to that nation. (2)


This does not mean that the church is not built upon the sacrificial work of Christ on the cross. This is certainly the basis for forgiveness of sin in any dispensation. However, it is to say that the seven feasts of Israel do serve as a specific typological prophecy picturing God's plan of redemption for His people Israel. It is important to note what Hulbert has said about the fulfillment of the Feast of Pentecost. His views are illustrated in the chart "Israel's Feast Summary," which I think best expresses the Biblical intent that all seven feasts are to be seen as a fulfillment for Israel and not the church.


The fourth feast did not foreshadow a church composed of sin-prone Jewish and Gentile believers pictured by two loaves of unleavened bread. This point is important, for if the church had fulfilled this feast, it could also fulfill the last three as the Amillennarian claims. However, the church is not revealed in the typology of any of the feasts, being related to them in the same way it is related to unconditional covenants made to Israel. It benefits from God's fulfillments to that nation, but is distinct from it. (1)


If we are going to consistently apply the Grammatical-Historical method of interpretation, commonly known as the normal or literal hermeneutic, then we cannot see any of Israel's feasts being fulfilled by God's program for the church. Why? Because these feasts are given in Leviticus 23 to Israel as part of her law. The church has been given the Lord's Table as the feast we are to celebrate "from now on until the kingdom of God comes" (Luke 22:18). If we see any of the feasts being fulfilled by the church then we are practicing the same kind of "replacement theology" which many practice, but to a greater extreme, who see the church replacing Israel in God's plan. Nowhere does the New Testament speak of the church fulfilling any of Israel's feasts. Therefore, since Israel's feasts are fulfilled only by Israel and not by the church, then Rosh HaShanah or the Feast of Trumpets cannot be a prediction of the rapture of the church. Israel's fifth feast does not give any insight into the day of the year on which the rapture will occur.

Hulbert's summary of the purpose for the fulfillment of Israel's feast makes the best sense within the framework of a consistent literal hermeneutic.


When God fulfilled the first four feasts He had provided everything necessary for Israel to enter into literal kingdom blessing--redemption, separation, resurrection, and the presence of the Holy Spirit. Israel's rejection of these, however, made necessary a national change of heart before the Kingdom could be established. Foreknowing this, God included the Feasts of Trumpets and Day of Atonement in the annual cycle. Thus, the Feast of Trumpets predicted God's alerting of the nation for the impending event which would bring about repentance. The Feast of the Day of Atonement predicted, not the death of Christ which had already been typified in the Passover, but the new reaction of Israel to the Redeemer's death. This change will take place when the believing Remnant repents during the Tribulation period. The event which fulfills this sixth feast is identified as God's intervention to save Israel from destruction as Gentile armies attack Jerusalem. (2-3)


Israel as a nation officially rejected in turn each spiritual provision offered by God and made available through the fulfillment of the first four feasts. The paschal lamb of God pointed out by John the Baptist was rejected as an imposter. The resurrection of Christ, as it answered to the Feast of Firstfruits, was suppressed in its proclamation by the bribe money paid to the sentries, . . . Finally, the coming of the Spirit was rejected at Pentecost as the Jews taunted the apostles with charges of drunkenness.

By the time of the close of Acts chapter 2, God had done all He could do for Israel until they repented as a nation. Thus, the significance of Peter's second sermon in Acts 3 was that it reemphasized the condition of millennial blessing already laid down in the Old Testament, but as yet unfulfilled. . . .



- Israel's Fall Feasts and Date-Setting of the Rapture, by Thomas Ice

Pre-Trib Research Center -


Basically, I tend to believe that the fall feasts will be realized for Israel at the time of His Second Coming (that is, to the earth, per context... and therefore "the idiom" would apply at that time), but I do understand the thinking/reasoning behind this view.


Another quote by Dr. Thomas Ice:

Second World-Wide Gathering in Belief

Many passages in the Bible speak of Israel’s regathering, in belief, at the end of the tribulation, in conjunction with Christ’s second coming, in preparation for commencement of the millennium. These references are not being fulfilled by the modern state of Israel. Some of the citations include: Deut. 4:29-31; 30:1-10; Isa. 27:12-13; 43:5-7; Jer. 16:14-15; 31:7-10; Ezek. 11:14-18; Amos 9:14-15; Zech. 10:8-12; Matt. 24:31 and many more. I think that this regathering will fulfill the Feast of Trumpets (Rosh Hashanah) for the nation of Israel.

Matthew 24:31, records a future regathering of Israel, this time in belief. “And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other” (Matt. 24:31). This is said to take place after the tribulation (Matt. 24:29), which would be the second coming.

- Dr. Thomas Ice

That's how I see it.

[daygo]

Thanks for the article acceptedinthebeloved but am talking about the first four feasts that christ fulfilled in his birth, death, resurrection, and giving of the holy spirit, they all fell on the exact time of the said feasts and in that order. Next one is the feast of trumpets then atonement then tabernacles. We know in the millenium the feast of tabernacles will happen so that leaves the feasts of trumpets and atonement, now I started to think about the feast of tabernacles and if true what would precede it, I felt drawn to the fact that for the atonement there would have to be a period of seeking the lord and thinking of your sin and what better place for that is the tribulation.
Prior to that would be the feast of trumpets, now in this its about the new moon and the door to the temple being opened for the trumpets blasts to occur for the jews to know its time for them to drop everything that instant and go to worship the lord.
Now this is where it is dangerous that being where you can put scripture where your thinking is,hence the thread to discuss. Am really drawn that the rapture will happen soon, there is too much happening esp. in september where we are now, is it coincidence that these things are happening, look at all these atrocities and all these signs being fulfilled as well, I could go on and on and on.
There are some good and bad articles on the above, just following some enquiries and doing some bible study as well. What do others think?

[acceptedinthebeloved]

In addition to my tendency to believe that RH and the fall feasts will be realized for Israel at the end of the tribulation period - Matthew 24:29-30, 31, 36 (all in the same year of each other, just as the spring feasts were all in the same year of each other), I also tend to believe that the feast of Pentecost has not yet been fully fulfilled (but will be, during the tribulation period, for Israel):



Joel 2:27-32

27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.

28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the LORD come.

32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.



Acts 2:17-21

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

[daygo]

Well said.

[cltthompson]

So, question, was the passover 'Christ shed blood', only for Israel?

[mattfivefour]

No. Christ shed His blood for ALL. (Colossians 1:20) This specifically includes the Gentiles. (Ephesians 2:11-14)

[OnceWasLost]

I have also seen over the years that when people connect The Rapture with the feast times, especially when the world is in great turmoil, people get excited thinking 'this may be it!' Then the times come and go and some become disillusioned since their hope never materialized. Could The Rapture happen around some feast? I suppose, but personally a position of His imminent return keeps my feet firmly planted and unable to be disappointed by a missed day hoped for.

Not saying you are advocating that daygo, just a general observation of those who have in times past focused on feast days.

[daygo]

I agree OnceWas Lost however myself it doesn`t matter to me I only want the truth, am mature enough to know that if right all well and good, if wrong then I ask forgiveness if it means that. Have only been interested in the end times for about 16mth so still consider myself a novice, but what I have learnt is there are a lot of different thinking, interpretations, theories, speculations etc etc. and you have to be like the beareans did and that is eagerly listen then go and check the bible to see if it were so, even that I have found there is the danger of putting your own thinking into it, and there is a lot of that about, beleive me on that. I could say a lot more but will leave it at that.

[OnceWasLost]

I agree OnceWas Lost however myself it doesn`t matter to me I only want the truth, am mature enough to know that if right all well and good, if wrong then I ask forgiveness if it means that. Have only been interested in the end times for about 16mth so still consider myself a novice, but what I have learnt is there are a lot of different thinking, interpretations, theories, speculations etc etc. and you have to be like the beareans did and that is eagerly listen then go and check the bible to see if it were so, even that I have found there is the danger of putting your own thinking into it, and there is a lot of that about, beleive me on that. I could say a lot more but will leave it at that.

Certainly with you, especially on the Berean comment. I just know that if figuring out the Rapture was as easy as seeing it fit into a Feast, there would be an annual vigil awaiting Jesus. Actually, it does happen every year around those times. Now that I have seen more than my share of such cycles, I tend to look at world events, and all the factors and rest in His imminent return, Feasts or no Feasts.

One thing you and I certainly share is zeal for His return, and that is something to tend to my friend.

[daygo]

Yes I agree with you. OnceWasLost.