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    Ruth is offline Citizen

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    Default Is The Kjv The Only Reliable Translation?

    IS THE KJV THE ONLY RELIABLE TRANSLATION?
    By Malcolm Bowden


    I have a few friends and contacts who will only use the KJV and will not use any other version. They all have my full respect even though I do not agree with their stance. What follows does NOT apply to them, but to some of the responses I have received when the recipient has seen that I use translations other than the KJV.
    Unfortunately, some KJV adherents are extremely antagonistic, not just to other versions but on a personal level to the people who do use them in their studies. I have received letters and emails that take delight in making savaging comments and pointing out that I am using versions that are "corrupt", "deceptive", "perverted", "Satanic" and many similar words.

    To have a difference of opinion with another Christian is perfectly acceptable if any discussions are carried out in a mature, sensible and thoughtful manner, but I find that some KJV adherents make their comments in a very aggressive tone. This is saddening, but there is an aspect that I find rather more disturbing.

    It does not take much insight to detect behind all their sharp personal critcisms a very strong sense of a "holier than thou" attitude! Furthermore, underlying such an attitude is a very strong sense of pride in superiority over others whom they regard as misled and deceived Christians.

    Far from being concerned that non-KJVO's have been deceived and presenting their evidence calmly in order to persuade them, there is a sense of dismissal and contempt that is unworthy of any true Christian. Indeed, one could go further, for there seems to be an attitude that this subject of the KJVOnly is their "thing" that they can use to batter other Christians to demonstrate their superior spiritual position. Again, hardly a display of the gentleness and humility that the Christian is commanded to have in all his relationships with others, whether Christian or not. Certainly, to attempt to criticise their stand is very likely to stir up considerable emotion and invective.

    These are just some personal reflections on the attitude taken by a few KJVO adherents to me. I have, however, read BOTH sides of the subject, and have been far from convinced by their arguments. I give a brief summary.

    1. James White's book "The KJV only controversy"
    I read this and found his evidence and arguments quite convincing. In it, he often referred to "The King James Version defended" by Dr. Edward F. Hills, and to be fair and hear both sides, I thought I should try to obtain this. It was only when I was putting the book away that I saw I already had a copy. I then remembered that I had started to read it several years ago but found a huge flaw in their arguments on one page. A few pages further, there was a claim made on one page, and then on the opposite page another that virtually contradicted the first. Although I had only read about a quarter of the book, I stopped reading any further.

    2. The circular argument.
    There is not a single external support for their claim that the KJV is inspired. It all comes down to their insistence that "God promised to preserve His word." In their view, only the KJV fulfills that promise. However their is no biblical or any other reference that supports this claim in any way. Indeed, the thread running throughout their arguments is that "God said he would 'preserve his word', he has done so in the KJV and any version that differs from that is therefore in error." They fail to see that this is circular reasoning.
    Why should God preserve the English of the KJV translation - but no other translation in any other language? Why should this specific English translation be so important in God's eyes. National pride is one thing, but this spiritual pride ....

    3. Drake's article.
    In a most enlightening article (Reformation Today March/April 2005 p.23) Michael Drake made some interesting revelations. They are from his book "The King's Bible".
    (a) King James laid down very specific rules that the translators should follow.
    (i) It was not to be a direct translation from original Greek and Hebrew manuscripts but follow the Bishop's Bible, making as few changes as possible having consulted other sources. This is truly amazing. It was NOT a direct translation from the Textus Receptus as KJVO devotees would have us believe! Indeed, Erasmus' "Textus Receptus" was never called that until many years after the KJV had been completed. The translators would never have head of the TR!
    (ii) They consulted the Catholic Latin Vulgate and Tyndale's first English version. They frequently used two of Beza's editions.
    (iii) "Church" was NOT to be translated as "congregation". This was deliberately to protect the High Anglican centralised "Church" structure. To allow the word "congregation" - a gathering of equals - threatened the hierarchical structure of the Anglican Church. Erasmus and Tyndale translated it as "congregation".
    Drake comments; "The translators were not free to give an accurate rendering of the Greek and Hebrew. On the contrary, political and doctrinal bias was stamped on their work from the very beginning."

    (iv) The king wanted no new words as they supported the evangelicals, and the translators actually stated that their translation was, in part, to suppress Puritans and Baptists!
    (b) The varied sources used

    (i) The TR is NOT a specific original text that is the best of them all. It is a compilation derived from a broad group of texts that have 6 to 10 variants per Bible Chapter, from which choice has to be made.

    (ii) They did not limit themselves to the TR but used other manuscripts and bewailed that they had so few manuscripts available. They also said that translations should always be in the "vulgar tongue".

    (iii) The TR is frequently referred to as the basis of the KJV and "Roman Catholic" sources are considered corrupt. But the TR was the product of Erasmus, a Roman Catholic who used RC sources amongst others, and hated Luther and the Protestant Reformation!

    (iv) Erasmus had few manuscripts and gave no reasons for his choices. He discarded one because it differed from his Latin version. He had one version of Revelation with the last six verses missing, so he made up the Greek from his Latin version, and then translated the Greek back into Latin for his Latin version. In his TR Greek text there are passages that have never been found in any known Greek manuscript (e.g. Acts 9.2, which some give at Acts 22:10).

    (v) Because he knew others were also working on a compilation, he rushed out his first edition in 1516 which had hundreds of typographical errors. His final fifth revision was in 1535, and his fourth edition had 90 changes to Revelation alone.

    (vi) Drake comments; "The Greek they consulted (and sometimes rejected) was not the best available then and is not the best available now. Departure from the Textus Receptus (and from the King's Bible) is not indicative of heretical tampering with the word of God".

    Many more criticisms are given in White's book, but sufficient has been given in the items above to show that the KJVO's have little support for their rigid stance.

    To give one further instance, the KJV quotes Paul as saying "God forbid" in 13 places. The word "God" does NOT appear in any of the Greek manuscripts, where the phrase "me genoito" is more correctly translated "Certainly not!" in the NKJV. (Strangely, the NKJV does translate it as "God forbid" in Gal. 6:14.). The NIV says "Not at all!" or "Certainly not!"

    How can KJVO's criticise others for "tampering" with the texts when the KJV adds the words "God" and "forbid" where they do not appear in any Greek texts!

    The desire for absolute certainty
    There is one aspect that struck me quite forcibly, and which was also noted by White; this is the emotional, almost fanatical, attitude most KJVO's have towards the KJV that suggests they are seeking some point of absolute certainty in a world full of change and uncertainty. Here is something that they can really hold on to as an absolute truth (and which, furthermore, they can use to berate other "misguided" Christians as I have said above).

    White notes "This argument is extremely powerful and should not be underestimated. Many people fulfil their longing for "certainty" in religious matters by swearing allegiance to a particular leader or system.... Protestants, however, should be quick (emphasis his) to question any such notion of absolute religious authority.... We cannot hand off our responsibility in religious matters to someone else.... Those who offer absolute certainty do so at a cost: individual responsibility." (White. p. 93-95).

    One cannot but wonder if this criticism would also apply to the emotional investment some have in the charismatic movement? It saves them from thinking too deeply, challenging error and taking responsibility for their doctrine.

    As 1 Cor. 3:11-15 shows, we will ALL be held responsible for our actions before God. Christ secured our salvation, but we will still be held responsible for any sinful yet unconfessed attitude, motivation and behaviour in this life.
    MB - September 2005.

    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/malcolmbowden/KJVonly.htm

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    Well, I am a KJV only person and the reason being is that it's what I grew up with. Now, just becasue I only use the KJV, doesn't mean that the other versions are bad. some are and some aren't. Many of you probably recognize that I quote and post Jack Kelley's articles quite a bit, and he uses the NIV I think it is. Some versions are easier to read, but sometimes they have drastically altered the meaning of verses, so I would use the KJV to help to make sure that the other version is staying true to the original meaning. JMHO.

    Some of the websites online allow you to compare the verses with what is written in the most popular versions, including the KJV. I think it is mainly a choice of preference and a person should examine the version thoroughly before relying on it. JMHO. :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Well, I am a KJV only person and the reason being is that it's what I grew up with. Now, just becasue I only use the KJV, doesn't mean that the other versions are bad. some are and some aren't. Many of you probably recognize that I quote and post Jack Kelley's articles quite a bit, and he uses the NIV I think it is. Some versions are easier to read, but sometimes they have drastically altered the meaning of verses, so I would use the KJV to help to make sure that the other version is staying true to the original meaning. JMHO.

    Some of the websites online allow you to compare the verses with what is written in the most popular versions, including the KJV. I think it is mainly a choice of preference and a person should examine the version thoroughly before relying on it. JMHO. :)

    Oh I hear you and agree completely. I just thought that this was a well presented way of speaking to those who are KJV only and are finger shakers at those who use anything else.

    I know you are open, as I am. I don't think any of the 'paraphrased' books that call themselves bibles - such as The Message - are even worth our time and are in insult to our Lord - but the NIV and the NKJV I believe are sufficient if one always prays and asks the Holy Spirit to teach from them rather than us trying to glean from our own wisdom what they scirptures say.

    I have had concerns over the CEV and a few others as they seem to try to lean towards more humanism and worldly ways than the true message.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruth View Post
    Oh I hear you and agree completely. I just thought that this was a well presented way of speaking to those who are KJV only and are finger shakers at those who use anything else.

    I know you are open, as I am. I don't think any of the 'paraphrased' books that call themselves bibles - such as The Message - are even worth our time and are in insult to our Lord - but the NIV and the NKJV I believe are sufficient if one always prays and asks the Holy Spirit to teach from them rather than us trying to glean from our own wisdom what they scirptures say.

    I have had concerns over the CEV and a few others as they seem to try to lean towards more humanism and worldly ways than the true message.
    I know what you mean about the KJV onlyism that goes around. I'm in Pensacola, Florida and one of the biggest KJV only folks is based here in the Dr. Peter Ruckman and the Pensacola Bible Institute. So, yeah, I see alot of KJV only stickers on cars around here.

    Yeah, I think the more popular ones like you said are fine. The Message, Underground Bible, the Judith Christ Bible, etc. are all just garbage that isn't worth our time like you said.

    BTW, what is the CEV? I've not heard of that one?

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    Contemporary English Version (CEV)

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    There are plenty of King James nuts but that doesn't mean we should follow the corrupted Alexandrian texts:




    The Authorized Version

    Bible Comparisons

    Ripped from the Bible

    Which Bible?

    Forever Settled



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    I use the ESV and the NASB for most of my studies. I do have a NKJV that I look at occasionally and an NIV once in a great while. I like looking at several to get the real meaning. I believe in a great God. One who can give you the message He wants you to have despite the shortcomings of men who translated a particular version.

    Kathe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathe View Post
    I use the ESV and the NASB for most of my studies. I do have a NKJV that I look at occasionally and an NIV once in a great while. I like looking at several to get the real meaning. I believe in a great God. One who can give you the message He wants you to have despite the shortcomings of men who translated a particular version.

    Kathe

    I agree completely Kathe. (by the way - gorgeous children! - going to make pretty babies one day!)

    I get overly concerned with people who almost idolize the KJV. It seems to say that the Lord is not more than capable of helping us learn the true message even if a few words are wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruth View Post
    I agree completely Kathe. (by the way - gorgeous children! - going to make pretty babies one day!)

    I get overly concerned with people who almost idolize the KJV. It seems to say that the Lord is not more than capable of helping us learn the true message even if a few words are wrong.
    No one should worship the KJV

    We worship God alone in spirit and truth.

    The Bible is God's instruction book.



    Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!"
    Come LORD Jesus !

    Buzzardhut.net |The Watch Parables | The Rapture | Romans | The Virgin Mary
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuzzardHut View Post
    No one should worship the KJV

    We worship God alone in spirit and truth.

    The Bible is God's instruction book.

    Absolutely! And that is my only concern. Some people seem to be willing to go to such great lengths - even to dividing the body of Christ over over the KJV only issue and that is wrong.

    I know you are not like that Buzz!

    Take care and have a blessed Resurrection day!

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    Ruth the key word of your origional post is translation. Thats all the KJV is was an English Language translation. The ones you reaaly have to watch out for is those who proclaime they use the old 1611 KJV only. This makes me laugh so hard because they cant even read a 1611 version because so many words were different and Oh MY it had the Catholic books in the middle. Ever wonder what happened to them in the latter revisions?

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    I use the Life Application Bible. Is that a good one in your opinion? I like it, except for the fact that when the pastor is reading scripture it doesn't say exactly the same thing mine does!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DonO View Post
    Ruth the key word of your origional post is translation. Thats all the KJV is was an English Language translation.
    of which manuscripts?

    Quote Originally Posted by DonO View Post
    The ones you reaaly have to watch out for is those who proclaime they use the old 1611 KJV only. This makes me laugh so hard because they cant even read a 1611 version because so many words were different and Oh MY it had the Catholic books in the middle. Ever wonder what happened to them in the latter revisions?
    The added books,removed by protestants because they supported catholic theology, had nothing to do with the original manuscripts



    Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!"
    Come LORD Jesus !

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    Quote Originally Posted by JAYNA View Post
    I use the Life Application Bible. Is that a good one in your opinion? I like it, except for the fact that when the pastor is reading scripture it doesn't say exactly the same thing mine does!
    The LAB is a study Bible produced with different Bible versions, which version is yours?
    and which version does your pastor use?



    Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!"
    Come LORD Jesus !

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    Never Heard of Jesus? | The Evidence Bible | Tent Meeting

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruth View Post
    I agree completely Kathe. (by the way - gorgeous children! - going to make pretty babies one day!)

    I get overly concerned with people who almost idolize the KJV. It seems to say that the Lord is not more than capable of helping us learn the true message even if a few words are wrong.
    Thanks - I think so, too (grandbabies, that is).

    And also agree about God. I really think it makes our God seem so small, that He isn't really in complete control over everything. This is His word we're talking about after all.

    Kathe

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    Quote Originally Posted by BuzzardHut View Post
    The LAB is a study Bible produced with different Bible versions, which version is yours?
    and which version does your pastor use?
    I'm not sure, I'll have to look when I get home. The pastor uses the KJV though.

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    This is what the old 1611 reads like so how many now really use and preach from this? :laughbounce



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    I see what you are trying to say and I understand completely but - I have attended churches who do read from this translation and I have one myself which is really very beautiful to read when the Holy Spirit is invited to join in the reading and learning.

    I think the KJV is a wonderful translation. The only concern that I was trying to bring forth is that I have run into some Christians who have been willing to divide the body of Christ over their obsession with KJV only and that does not seem right to me.

    Does that make sense?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruth View Post
    I see what you are trying to say and I understand completely but - I have attended churches who do read from this translation and I have one myself which is really very beautiful to read when the Holy Spirit is invited to join in the reading and learning.

    I think the KJV is a wonderful translation. The only concern that I was trying to bring forth is that I have run into some Christians who have been willing to divide the body of Christ over their obsession with KJV only and that does not seem right to me.

    Does that make sense?
    Makes sense to me. :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruth View Post
    I see what you are trying to say and I understand completely but - I have attended churches who do read from this translation and I have one myself which is really very beautiful to read when the Holy Spirit is invited to join in the reading and learning.

    I think the KJV is a wonderful translation. The only concern that I was trying to bring forth is that I have run into some Christians who have been willing to divide the body of Christ over their obsession with KJV only and that does not seem right to me.

    Does that make sense?
    1611 can be used during a verse by verse comparison study.
    Preaching from the pulpit should always be relevant to today's audience using common vernacular language.

    But once again there is never an excuse for succumbing to the corrupted Alexandrian manuscripts no matter how pretty the package



    Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!"
    Come LORD Jesus !

    Buzzardhut.net |The Watch Parables | The Rapture | Romans | The Virgin Mary
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