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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Why can't the earth/universe be millions of years old?

    Quote Originally Posted by twerpv View Post
    Are we assuming that "He created" in six days and rested on the seventh, it means 24 hrs. in a day? Are we assuming that our definition of a "day" is correct? I get the sin, animal death statements. Never thought of it that way and it sure makes sense. My original question has to do with the earth, universe, etc. not animals and man.
    Anyway, I am certainly not arguing here and would not take a position against God's word. Just wondering aloud.

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    Default Re: Why can't the earth/universe be millions of years old?

    The OP's
    First off, I believe the bible completely. It is the Word of God. My question is not the history of mankind, as one can tract the years from Adam til now. However, could the earth, universe, et. all have been created millions of years before Adam was created?
    Resources have been given

    Are we assuming that "He created" in six days and rested on the seventh, it means 24 hrs. in a day? Are we assuming that our definition of a "day" is correct? I get the sin, animal death statements. Never thought of it that way and it sure makes sense. My original question has to do with the earth, universe, etc. not animals and man. Anyway, I am certainly not arguing here and would not take a position against God's word. Just wondering aloud.
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    Default Re: Why can't the earth/universe be millions of years old?

    You might be a bit premature, bro. This is a very common question among Christians who have not studied the issue completely. In fact for many years I, too, wondered the same thing.
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    Default Re: Why can't the earth/universe be millions of years old?

    God tells us what he wants us to know. Man keeps asking for more information to the story, but then man doesn't listen to the answers.

    It does not matter how old the earth itself is - it matters what God did since He created Adam. The ages of the creation of Adam and the age of the earth do not have to be the same. We wonder about it, and wondering is fine; but it changes nothing about the message given in our Bibles.

    I see plenty of evidence in my Bible about the very old earth and the comparatively young account of man in my Bible. Nothing in my Bible actually says that the ages are the same, but many people assume it is. OK with me if people want to believe that - it changes nothing about The Message. The Good News remains valid as well.

    Please don't let the question become a stumbling block for anyone.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Why can't the earth/universe be millions of years old?

    First off, I once read an article by an avowed athiest (I wish I had the quote) and evolutionist. He loved to argue the old earth theory. When it came to Christians and Jews he simply stated that he was amazed at the great lengths that theologians would go to try and make the Bible fit into an old earth theory. He then simply stated the obvious that in the Hebrew the word for day meant 24 hrs. He laughed and said it is amazing to me that they cannot even accept their own Bible on this one point. They have to try to make the Bible fit scientific theory to save face. It sure got me thinking.

    My Creation science teacher once told the story of the Giraffe. He asked us, "how large the heart of a Giraffe is?"
    We said, "most likely larger than that of a human."
    He said, "Yes it is." That it takes a large heart to pump blood continuously up that long neck." He went on to say, "What happens to a Giraffe when it leans down to get a drink?"
    We just stared at him.

    If a Giraffe leans down to take a drink and the blood supply to the brain is not shut off the Giraffes head would explode or massively hemmorage. But what is amazing is that their is a valve placed in the system that closes off the blood supply when he leans down allowing the Giraffe to get a drink.

    He then asked, "How many Giraffes heads exploded before evolution created the valve?" It was interesting.

    At any rate, His point was we were all created by species in like form as we are today. We do not need to try and fit our Bile into science.

    We went to a debate between a reknowned Biology professor from Kansas University and our teacher. After about 30 minutes the Biology professor stood up and claimed the 5th ammendment. The auditorium erupted in boos and filthy name calling by his students at us.

    I will always believe in a young earth but I will never allow it to separate me from those who do not unless it begins to interfere with Biblical instruction.

    God Bless
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    Default Re: Why can't the earth/universe be millions of years old?

    I started this thread with the question because I assumed that this forum is a safe place for Christians to discuss things from a common starting point. I do not appreciate being called a "troll" simply because I have asked a question. Your arrogance as it relates to providing feedback needs to be checked. Not by me but by you. I am quite sure that when we are standing before the Almighty there will be plenty of things that will be revealed to us that we either had no idea existed or were completely off base on what our perceptions were.

    Whether earth is "old" or "young" makes no difference in my faith in Jesus Christ, through which the only way to heaven exists. I have all kinds of questions and wonderment (if that is a word) regarding God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, Heaven, eternity, etc. I do not question God's authority nor do I assume that I am allowed to challenge His word. I am intereted in what other CHRISTIANS think about things in the bible. It doesn't mean that I will take any one persons view and believe that is fact. I believe that the Holy Spirit will reveal things to us as He sees fit (in timing and place).

    The 'you been told where to find the answers now stop trolling' response is arrogant at best. Particularly because you have no idea who I am or what my background is.

    I am clearly new here. If I have been out of line, please ban me, suspend me or whatever and I will get the hint.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Why can't the earth/universe be millions of years old?

    Twerpv, you are not out of line at all. You asked a question and you have received some good answers. But please understand that there are some here who have suffered through attacks by trolls before and are a little gunshy about some questions. I know they love the Lord as do you. Please forgive them. they meant no offense to a brother or sister in the Lord but rather sought to head off what appeared to them as a troll-like continuation of questioning when it is, in fact, a point of discussion that raises questions among many Christians.

    Please do not hesitate to raise questions in future. If you are indeed out of line, a mod will gently correct you. But so far I have not seen any evidence that you have been.

    God bless.

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  8. #28
    Meg
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    Default Re: Why can't the earth/universe be millions of years old?

    I wonder, then, if we are free to explore the concept of the earth being as old as science says it is, since I too am Old Earth. It came up once, several months ago, I don't remember which thread. I struggled with the issue for years, it was the only thing in the entire Bible I really didn't agree with. I don't understand most of Revelation, and don't claim to, but the six day theory is so blatantly in conflict with respected scientific observation that I couldn't accept it, and still can't.

    I don't like for Christians to look like we prefer religion over science at the expense of rational thought, and a lot of Christians find this issue very uncomfortable. Do we get a fair shake to discuss this touchy issue which is not a Salvation issue?

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    Quote Originally Posted by twerpv View Post
    Are we assuming that "He created" in six days and rested on the seventh, it means 24 hrs. in a day? Are we assuming that our definition of a "day" is correct? I get the sin, animal death statements. Never thought of it that way and it sure makes sense. My original question has to do with the earth, universe, etc. not animals and man.
    Anyway, I am certainly not arguing here and would not take a position against God's word. Just wondering aloud.

    Regards.
    How else is an evening and morning more than just a day?

    Quote Originally Posted by Meg View Post
    I wonder, then, if we are free to explore the concept of the earth being as old as science says it is, since I too am Old Earth. It came up once, several months ago, I don't remember which thread. I struggled with the issue for years, it was the only thing in the entire Bible I really didn't agree with. I don't understand most of Revelation, and don't claim to, but the six day theory is so blatantly in conflict with respected scientific observation that I couldn't accept it, and still can't.

    I don't like for Christians to look like we prefer religion over science at the expense of rational thought, and a lot of Christians find this issue very uncomfortable. Do we get a fair shake to discuss this touchy issue which is not a Salvation issue?
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  10. #30
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    Default Re: Why can't the earth/universe be millions of years old?

    Has God really said evenings and mornings?

    "Yes, but I don't like that, so I'll allegorize it."

    "The respect of proven, self declared God-haters is soooo important to me. I'll even go against Scripture and Family and side with committed enemies because I love the approval of man so much more than humbling myself and accepting persecution for righteousness sake."

    Even though The Lord declared He would confound the "wisdom" of this world...and that they would hate us because they hated Him first.

    Christian scientists explain the same scientific data much more credibly and Biblically faithfully than the unbelievers....no contradictions, and they end up glorifying God all the more. Yes, He did it in 6 x 24 hours, like He says. He even made His Sabbath day as a memorial of Creation...note that the Sabbath was before Moses, so the legalist label sure isn't gonna stick this time.

    If He had Created in 6 trillion years and wrote it down, you can be sure the devil, his minions, and the deluded unbelievers and the pretend Christians and the erronous Christians would all be arguing for something else, anything but the Truth.

    Consider this....on the third day, He made plants, on the fourth day, He made the sun.

    Question: how did the plants live during the remainder of the 3rd day and into the 4th without sunlight?

    Answer: plants can live for at least half a day (12 hours) without sunlight.

    Simple, elegant, Biblically 100% compatible, and an awesome display of His power, though I bet if He wanted to show off He could top that easily.

    Any expansion on that is dissembling, and allegorising it into long time periods (that seem to get longer and longer the more they get refuted...hmmm) is to engage in the gymnastics of lying.

    2 Peter 3 contains a warning specific to this discussion. Look it up, and research the "nuclear strong force" while you're at it. That is how powerful God's spoken word is...it holds each of your atomic nuclei together. Feel safer now, knowing how close He is?

    The gainsayers deny His resurrection too, which is a lot more amazing and relevant, and the best documented historical event ever...let's also be faithful in the little things.

    One last thing....don't use "it isn't necessary to salvation" as a wildcard to derail the discussion whenever things aren't going your way, particularly when we are discussing His Word; to take sides with the world is to call Him a liar.

  11. #31
    Meg
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    Default Re: Why can't the earth/universe be millions of years old?

    How else is an evening and morning more than just a day?
    A period of "stillness" or simply not direct inactivity of a sort on God's part. As in He set things in motion by the awesome power of His Spoken command, for example:

    Genesis 1:6-9
    6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

    9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.
    11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
    being a sample of the concept in action. God Speaks over the planet, and the process starts, then God sits back, His Spirit quietly hovering while the process works (evening). Then when the process has proceeded to His satisfaction, He Speaks another command as only He can and ever could, and the next phase begins (morning)...

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    Default Re: Why can't the earth/universe be millions of years old?

    Dear Meg,
    You seem to want to keep arguing this even when all these people have given you ample reason to defunk an old earth theroy. You say that you believe the Bible except in this one area where God said that He created in 6 days. With very much respect to you, this may be a time when you are going to have to decided to take that leap of faith that what the bible says is 100% accurate. When you want to argue yourself out of believing that it is, you need to cast down all opinions that set themselves up against the true knowleged of God. Really Meg the Bible is either 100% accurate or it is not. You have to make up your own mind whether you are going to accept the entire Bible on faith or not.

  13. #33
    Meg
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    Default Re: Why can't the earth/universe be millions of years old?

    I reserve the right to think for myself, and I might lean on the right to be respected for what I have done right so far. If I respect science, that is a valid intellectual position. I did not seek to argue, merely to open a discussion on a different point of view. Is that so threatening then?

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Why can't the earth/universe be millions of years old?

    I think ample Biblical evidence has been given in this discussion. We are now down to people defending their positions based either upon a literal interpretation of the Word, or a non-literal interpretation of the meaning of certain Hebrew words and phrases. And that disagreement is getting very personal.

    I have complete faith that the Holy Spirit will lead all people into a correct understanding as they choose to want to know the truth. But I am also as certain that this is not a salvation issue, nor is it necessary for a proper apprehension of Christ and His substitutionary work. What it is becoming is a wedge which Satan is using to separate brothers and sisters for whom Christ died. I fully understand the argument that to deny a young earth is to bring doubt upon God's Word, I also understand the other argument that sees a different view in Genesis, though I may not agree with it. But the fact is, as I have just said, this is NOT a salvation issue. If each person holds to their belief out of a sincere desire to appreciate our Lord and the beauty of His work, then even though there is disagreement and even error on one side or the other, it does not matter. There is nothing heretical in either belief. There is nothing that will cause the church to be harmed. Each side glorifies God. And each claims salvation by the sacrificial offering of Christ alone. Let us therefore not judge one another on this issue but rather, as it says in Romans 14:13 on the matter of the dispute over eating idol-sacrificed food which led to both the eaters and those who rejected the eating of that food to judge one another— judge this that no man put a stumbling block before a brother. (Romans 14:13)

    I am not suggesting that beliefs that justify immorality or that cause others to stray from faith in Christ should not be rebuked. But I suggest this is not the case here. Therefore let us end this discussion now. And let those who have allowed frustration and anger toward one another to rise up submit their human reactions to the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit. If this still concerns us, then let us all pray about this and let each heart be satisfied in faith toward God and complete trust in His Word.

    As to this specific topic, the debate has turned from discussion to dissension. I note that the scriptures have already been given, and the various points of view already made. Let each be fully convinced by the Holy Spirit in his or her own mind on this issue. And may God bless each of us as we seek to honestly and daily live by the truth He has revealed to us in His Word.
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    Default Re: Why can't the earth/universe be millions of years old?

    Quote Originally Posted by Meg View Post
    Actually, I'm on the Old Earth side of the fence. I think "evening and morning" are allegorical.
    That's where trouble begins.

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