Is belief a choice?

[Robert]

mikhen7,

re: “Please do not twist my words.”

Where have I twisted your words? Please be specific.


re: “ I emphatically do not already believe or have faith in Him once He reveals Himself to me.”

If by “reveal” you mean “to make known”, then you don’t have a CHOICE; the “making known” instantly causes a belief to be engendered in your mind. You simply can’t know that you know the truth about something and at the same time not believe it.

rstrats,

You essentially took over Soundingthealarm's topic, which was BEAUTIFULLY written, and have devolved it into a series of nonsensical arguments. Soundingthealarm wrote this to draw people's attention to the Lord and his Christ, and you are DELIBERATELY trying to ruin that. Are you attempting to draw people away from the Lord? As Adrian said: "this thread was created to win souls", and you keep trying to stop that. If that is the case, why are you even here, except to oppose the work that God Almighty has commanded us to do in his word, the Bible?

All you have done here is to sow division, and frankly, your fruit is rotten; I think the mods should strip ALL your comments out of this thread and either put them in a new thread, or discard them altogether. We are in the business of bringing the word of God to the lost; all you have done is to attempt to ruin a beautiful call to the Lord with nonsense and pointless splitting of hairs and useless arguments.

[rstrats]

Robert,

re: “You essentially took over Soundingthealarm's topic...Soundingthealarm wrote this to draw people's attention to the Lord and his Christ”

Then it should be included as a sticky and locked if no discussion is wanted.

The OP says: “Unbeliever, I pray you Hear these words and Believe them...” The implied basis for implementing that request would be an ability to consciously CHOOSE to believe things and I don’t think that that is possible. I say that because I have never been able to consciously CHOOSE any of the beliefs that I possess, nor has anyone that I have asked been able to demonstrate such an ability. However, if it is possible, I would really like to know how it is done because I would dearly like to have the ability. If you think that you have it, I would ask you to demonstrate by complying with my request in post # 14.


re: “ Are you attempting to draw people away from the Lord? “

Absolutely not!
‘


re: “If that is the case, why are you even here...?”

It isn’t. When ever a topic is started that entails an ability to believe things, I want to try to find out how it is done. I'd even be happy if someone could demonstrate - in realtime - such an ability even if they couldn't explain their technique. At least I could know that it is possible.

[mattfivefour]

The OP says: “Unbeliever, I pray you Hear these words and Believe them...” The implied basis for implementing that request would be an ability to consciously CHOOSE to believe things and I don’t think that that is possible. I say that because I have never been able to consciously CHOOSE any of the beliefs that I possess, nor has anyone that I have asked been able to demonstrate such an ability.

Then how did you arrive at the beliefs you have? Are you made to believe things against your will? Or does will not even enter in to it— you are by some mysterious process MADE to believe? Or perhaps made to disbelieve? Your comments are far too enigmatic. Please explain.

[rstrats]

mattfivefour,

re: “Then how did you arrive at the beliefs you have?”


I would venture a guess that whenever I realize that I have a new belief that it is likely caused by some process occurring in my subconscious mind due to an exposure to outside stimuli, such as literature, lectures, media, conversation, reflection, experience, etc.

[mattfivefour]

OK, you've had your fun. You have been going around Christian sites for a few years now with almost identically worded posts offering the same argument and asking for the same "help". Even your "leprechaun" challenge is identical. I thought perhaps in all of this you had some clear point, but it is clear from the fact that NOBODY on all of those sites and from among all of those who have taken the time to respond to you despite the care and intelligence of many of those posts has made a single dent in your single-minded mantra. You motor on without any true contribution to debate; merely the same old, same old. Therefore, anything we could say here is just going to be more of the same.

You have CHOSEN to believe that no man can choose to believe. In other words you have chosen to NOT believe ... just as we have chosen TO believe. When I was presented with the gospel, I had no revelation of God. But I saw sufficient evidence to decide to change my mind from disbelieving in Jesus Christ to believing in Him. His proofs followed my decision to act in faith; they did not inform that decision.

As was posted by a member of another site in response to you a year and a half ago:

A wiser man than I am wrote this:

"What can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things" Romans 1:19-23 ESV

Exactly. Even though they had the evidence, they chose NOT to believe. Just like I once did. Until the day I CHOSE to believe. Your argument is silly and a waste of forum space.

This topic is finished. And, sadly, so are you. Goodbye. (user banned)