In search of a church....

[mikalikat]

So, yesterday I interviewed a pastor at a local church to see if they would be a good fit for us. Mike came down with a bug so I went by myself, armed with questions he wanted me to ask.

I show up, go into a waiting area and standing upright and displayed proudly are The Purpose Driven Life and The Shack. CLANGCLANGCLANG, bells are already going off in my head, but I will read the pamphlet and see their mission statement and the pastor will eventually show up. He does, we chat a few, and then he takes me on a tour of the church. Nice enough, but I don't care about all the the rooms, I want to know what FILLS them up. Eventually, we make our way to his office and proceed to the "interview". This is what I learned:

1. He doesn't think much of homeschooling, thinks homeschooled kids are arrogant and think they know too much. Dude, they probably do.

2. When asked if the church supports Israel and the Jews, well, that's up for discussion because so many people have so many varying views on that subject that you can't really pinpoint anyone. Really? Chances are growing dimmer by the second....

3. When asked where he stands on people like Rick Warren, I about fall off my chair. He LOVESLOVESLOVES Rick Warren AND Bill Hybels. He seemed surprised I knew which pastors were at which jcurch when he just mentioned Saddleback and Willow Creek. I told him I'd researched a lot and did not like either one as they are apostate and fully into the Emergent Church. He had NO CLUE what I meant by Emergent Church. When I told him, he campaigned on their behalf that they were outstanding men of God and had a heart for lost souls and Rick Warren was his hero because he'd given 90% of his book proceeds back to the church. Big frigging deal, dude. The guy embraces Islam, is pro-choice, and is in Obama's back pocket. Moving on.....

4. When asked if the church is pre-trib, again, you cannot really pinpoint that issue because there are SO MANY divergent thoughts on that within his own church. There is NOTHING in the Bible, according to him, that pinpoints when it will happen, we know SOMETHING will happen, we don't know WHAT exactly, but something will happen and we really don't need to dwell on that because it's just not that important. Same thing with the Second Coming. We really don't know when that will happen or what will happen.......You have got to be kidding me, I say. Have you read Revelation? It tells you right there! Well, we don't want to get into arguments about that with other believers, he says. Dear Lord........

5. He really likes outreaches to the community, like barbeques and inviting neighbors and friends of church members to the Easter and Christmas services because that's an excellent time to pull new people into the church. Then he went on to tell me the building rent, their past month's water bill, and the new salary of the youth pastor. I find myself alternately wanting to fall asleep and hurl a kidney.

This is LUKEWARM AT BEST. Spewed from Christ's mouth.

Safe to say that when I left I had no intention of ever visiting the church for a service, and the search goes on. I called three churches originally. Scratch this one off the list. I have never heard back from the pastor at the second one. Calvary Chapel said their pastor is at a conference this week, but they called back to tell me that the ASSOCIATE Pastor would return my call next week. Apparently they are all out busy this week. I wonder if that is putting off the last gentile coming to Christ this week and we could all just go Home. Sadly, I am holding out no hope of finding a new church and may just find a homeschool group in the area so Ali can make new friends. After all, we don't want homeschool kids to become too arrogant. They have to know how to get along.

Welcome to the modern day church.

[mattfivefour]

Shocking, but not surprising, sis! It is getting harder and harder to find a true Bible-believing church. Truly the "great falling away" is in full swing.

Hopefully the Calvary Chapel pastor will call you and that he will have a heart like Chuck Smith used to have ... a heart like Paul Smith and Roger Oakland still do have (though they have both been forced to leave the Calvary Chapel movement now).

[mikalikat]

Adrian, why have they been forced to leave? Please tell me what you know. That will help. Also, does Chuck Smith still have the same convictions?

[mattfivefour]

He is very supportive of both Greg Laurie and Rick Warren ... saying they have been given a ministry of care and compassion. He says to criticize them would be "divisive" to the body. He canceled Roger Oakland without warning a couple years back because of an editorial Oakland delivered against the errors of the emergent church. And he fired his son, Paul Smith, because his son was preaching against the emergent church and was fighting to keep the heretical doctrines of that church out of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa where they were starting to make inroads. That is all I know for sure.

[mikalikat]

So, Greg Laurie is in with the Scary Kids, too? It's like a vortex, sucking people in!

[mattfivefour]

So, Greg Laurie is in with the Scary Kids, too? It's like a vortex, sucking people in!

It would appear so. Here is just one reference from Lighthouse Trails to Laurie's statements from last year:

"In Laurie’s May 2008 letter to pastors and leaders, Laurie talks about his upcoming crusade in New York City, saying, in reference to it, “God is on the move.” He then states that “[t]his move is also seen in the formation of the New York City Leadership group. Under their direction, a community-wide 40 Days of Purpose campaign with Pastor Rick Warren has been launched, and the significant services of Bill Hybels’ Leadership Summit conferences are also being organized to strengthen the local church.” Because Laurie has publicly connected Purpose Driven to a move of God and calls Willow Creek’s conferences “significant,” Lighthouse Trails has no choice but to issue this warning to the body of Christ. For those who may find this rebuttal too severe, bear in mind that just last month Rick Warren had New Age sympathizer Leonard Sweet speak at his small groups conference. Sweet has stated that small groups are the means in which people can attain to a “christ-consciousness” (a New Age belief). And as for Bill Hybels, this spring Willow Creek featured Brian McLaren at one of their youth conferences. McLaren, who calls the doctrine of hell and the Cross “false advertising for God”, is one of the emerging church’s most prolific writers and a close associate of Willow Creek. And as Lighthouse Trails has been consistently showing for over five years, both Rick Warren and Bill Hybels are two of the emerging church’s most influential proponents and both heartily promote the mystical contemplative prayer movement (see A Time of Departing, chapter 8). For those who understand the ramifications of the contemplative approach to spirituality this is disconcerting.
In addition to Greg Laurie’s letter to pastors regarding Rick Warren and Bill Hybels, Lighthouse Trails has also learned that Laurie is also helping to finance Warren’s September event in New York. Lighthouse Trails contacted the New York City Leadership group this past week after we learned that Laurie’s name was on their website showing him to be a sponsor. The New York City office said that this sponsorship is in the way of financial support and is for Rick Warren’s September conference. There are two “Event Sponsors”: Greg Laurie and a legal firm in New York. Without a doubt, Laurie supports Purpose Driven."
Greg Laurie Connects Purpose Driven to a Move of God – Gives Financial Support Apostasy of Rick Warren

You can also Google and find Richard Abanes (Rick Warren's PR guru) speaking in support of Greg Laurie's support of Warren and the Purpose Driven movement (and attacking Rapture Ready in the process.)

Greg also preached at Saddleback last month and Rick Warren was invited to speak/pray at Greg's Harvest Crusade last month.

The good news is that Calvary Distribution has pulled all of rick Warren's Purpose Driven books from its inventory and no longer handles them. And I see that Roger Oakland still claims Chuck Smith as his pastor (Calvary Chapel and Purpose Driven) In that article Roger shows why the emergent philosophy at Saddleback is at odds with the gospel, so I am left wondering at the fact that he does not criticize Chuck's involvement with Rick Warren in the name of "peace" among the brethren.

[Longing2cJesus]

Lori,

I am so sorry you are having such a hard time finding a Bible teaching church.

I wish I lived close to you to go on the interviews with you, but I don't know if I could keep a straight face or keep my mouth shut. I do know you handle it a lot better than I ever could.

I do like your writing style when you tell us what transpired. Your take on what you see and hear is priceless and I so enjoy reading what you relate.

Being berean is not easy. And knowing who the false teachers and what they teach is a big plus for you in chosing a church to attend. I can just imagine the conversation the pastor had with whomever after you left.

God Bless you my sister and I pray that you and Mike find a good Bible Believing/Teaching church family real soon.


Ann

PS: By the way. Rich Warren now has his own magazine. I saw it in WalMart with he and his wife's picture on the front cover. Did not pick it up cause I don't read that kind of stuff. It is The Purpose Driven something or other.

[Jesus Freak]

Hey Sister in Chirst,

I know what your going thru. I left my church, sounds exactly like my old one. The Shack poster and support. They support Jesse Duplantis etc....Went there for a year and never heard a single lick of Bible Prophecy. All the sermons were like 21st Century Sermons, or the "exciting new ways". By the way it was a AOG church. I found out that the best church to go to is a Baptist church. If you and your husband are old school and like the traditional church thats cool. By traditional I mean, the choir in the back, dressing up, etc... I found a non-traditional that does teach Bible Prophecy, Revelations, Pre-Trib, etc....I love it! I'll be praying for you.

[WartHog]

Keep seeking and God will lead you guys to the church He has for you. I'll pray He gets ya there quick. :)

[WartHog]

If I may, what is this? "Being berean"

[Carl]

You might snoop around and see if you can find a local home church. There seem to be many sprouting up now. The remnant is joining together and separating from the luke warm church.

[mattfivefour]

If I may, what is this? "Being berean"

Acts 17:11. Their method.

[Longing2cJesus]

Acts 17:11. Their method.

Sorry Warthog


Thank you Adrian

[WartHog]

Acts 17:11. Their method.

Sorry Warthog

Thank you. Makes sense now. :)


Thank you Adrian

No problem. :)

[HISDaughter]

Mika,

I'm sorry your having trouble finding a church.

I too feel the greating falling away is happening. It's so sad to see so many people don't see it! I've been discouraged with the church I attend. A COG. We have a new pastor and I have given him a chance. I've noticed there isn't any preaching/teaching on salvation, sin, consequences, or the rapture. It breaks my heart. The pastor wants people to come in, and coming in they are. But if there not hearing the message. What good it? The pastor has driven a motorcycle in to the church. Last Sunday, we a NFL football kick off, after Sunday school, but before church - all with a band in the santurary. Balls being thrown up in the air. And the "Wave" done. I was really discouraged.

I too have been visiting a Baptist church. It so hard to find a good church. It is not easy. Praying for you.

[mikalikat]

I am not too worried about finding a curch home right now. I was looking more for Alison to have Sunday school than anything. I hate to sound like a woman with a grocery shopping list of all the things she DOESN'T want in a man, but you have to be that way!! You can't be a cafeteria Christian and walk into a church and turn a blind eye to this and accept that. It has to be all or nothing with us. That doesn't leave us many possibilities at all, but it does comfort my heart knowing that soon we WILL be out of here as this is just one more of the signs of His coming. I will be scoping out homeschool groups in the area this week and as Carl suggested, put my ears to the ground about a homechuch meeting group. Thanks all. I do have one more phone call coming in next week from the Calvary Chapel people. The third church I called this last week never returned my call. What a strange experience this has been.

[MikeD]

Interesting what Carl posted above regarding home churches. I really didn't realize that was going on until I met a young couple attending a home church. After further study, it's grown here in our area like crazy! What I find soooooo very interesting is, one of the LARGEST areas the home church movement is really growing is in the area of Baton Rouge all around the Jimmy Swaggart compound. Sometimes, I do believe, God does in fact have a tremendous sense of humor.

Mika., I do wish you God's blessings, and guidance, in finding a church JUST FOR YOU and your family. He has one some where, that's for sure!

[Faith]

Hey Sis,

You are very 'wise' to interview the pastors of these churches.

When I homeschooled my two sons, I left my present church to attend a church that had a pastor who attended the homeschooling program.

We stayed at that church until the pastor left...

Now I'm at a 'lukewarm' church,but I have the 'best' Sunday School teacher.

Where I'm living, we don't have good churches to pick from, being I live in a small town.

May the Lord lead you to the right church for you~

[Littlesooz]

I too can identify and have read that "Churchless Christians" is a rising phenomena.

Praying you will find a Bible teaching fellowship.

[open door]

Mika, you did the right think in not taking another look at that church. From your post, the pastor is into satisfying the wishes of his congregation, not serving God or preaching the true Word. Just this afternoon, in a discussion (witnessing attempt) with someone I later found out was just as much a believer as I, I told the lady that many pastors are in the pulpit that are NOT called by God to preach. She agreed - many do it for the money. How terribly sad.