When they say the middle east!

[WordDivine]

Ok I really would like to understand what the middle east has to do with the end of times? If someone can explain this to me in simple English and Bible references, I would very much appreciate it. Please explain it to me as you would to a young adult without any formal education. Please do not cut and past some long article that you have read. I have an attention span of a flee. Thank you for your help.

GOD Bless You

[Hannah]

Both your parents used to be Ministers? You obviously are familiar with the Bible. You should have some knowledge.

It is a very long and involved topic however you should know your Old Testament enough to have some idea.

The best way of learning is doing the hard work for yourself. There are many good articles on the Rapture Forums home pages.

I would recommend you read a few articles and come back and ask your questions. Here is a link to the section called Israel and the Middle East where there are a number of good articles for you to read and get all this for yourself instead of getting us to do your home work for you.

Israel and the Middle East

There a quite a few articles but all the articles are well written with scriptures for you to study.

[LivnForChrist]

Hello WordDivine, First let me say Welcome to Rapture Forums.
I have to agree with Hannah. There is a lot of good information about the middle east
and how it affects end time prophecy on both the main page and in the middle east section
of the board. You will learn best if you read through the information and then if you have any
specific questions, ask.

[AndyM]

Hi WordDivine, when I started to try to understand Bible prophecy a few years ago I prayed to God for his divine grace and love and to give me understanding to learn. It was why He leads us to the truth of this world and what is happening to this world. You see His plan is like a giant jig saw puzzle for which He is placing all these tinny little pieces together for His plan to be complete. The Bible is the book of life and one must read it to learn the whole story of the beginning to end of Gods plan. This rapture forum with all the Christian love we all share has greatly helped me understand and truthfully want to understand Gods plan of salvation. God bless you WordDevine. Let the Holy Spirit lead you brother.

[mattfivefour]

Hannah is correct we have a large library of online articles at our main site Rapture Forums - The Rapture in the End Times. she has given you a link to the appropriate area. but jut some basic background:

The Bible reveals that mankind began in the region of what we now know as the Middle East. Out of all of the tribes that came into existence sprang the city-states. And out of the ancient city-states thousands of years ago sprang the great nations and empires of history. The descendants of the ancient nations of Persia, Assyria, Egypt, Phoenicia, Edom, Midian, Sheba, etc, etc, etc still exist in modern times, though many of the names of the nations have changed along with their borders. However Israel exists in the midst of them and is hated by them all. This was prophesied thousands of years ago by various Hebrew prophets, often living in different lands, in different cultures and speaking different languages. Their only commonality was they were Hebrews— direct descendants of Abraham. All of these prophecies concerning Israel were indeed astounding. Perhaps the most astounding was that she would be destroyed and her people scattered throughout the nations where they would live in insecurity. This happened in 70 AD when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and drove the Jews into exile throughout the world. But it was also prophesied that after generations of wandering the face of the earth, living in peril in the Gentile nations, Israel would in one day become a nation again and the Jews would return from around the world. This happened, starting in May 1948. But the prophesies did not stop there. They went on to say that Israel would be surrounded by nations that would hate her and try to destroy her. This is exactly what has happened since May 1948. In addition to constant terrorism, there were major wars fought in '48; '67, '73, and we are about to see another soon. In all of them Israel beat back overwhelming odds and won. If you look at a map of the middle east and see how tiny the country is compared to the rest of the nations and how small her population is, you will see she should not have won against the might of Egypt, Syria, etc etc. She won because God said she would ... thousands of years ago.

Further, it was prophesied that the nations who tried to destroy Israel would be descendants of Ishmael the half brother of Isaac. Isaac was the son of Abraham to whom God's promise was made. He became the father of the Hebrew nation. Ishmael was Abraham's other son by his maid, Hagar, and is the father of the Arab nations. So exactly what was first prophesied about 5,000 years ago is coming to pass in our day!

Now we are moving into the area of prophecies yet to be fulfilled. And they all concern the nations that surround Israel today: in other words, the Middle East. Through ancient prophecy we learn that in the last days Israel would be a problem for the entire world. Well she is. No other nation that tiny has ever brought the entire world to the possibility of war. Yet that is exactly what we can see looming on the horizon. And 2500 years ago Zechariah prophesied that in the last days when Israel would be surrounded by enemies (as she now is) she would be a "burdensome stone" for the whole world, and all who came to try to deal with it would be ruined.

Anyway, this was a very incomplete and shallow background to get you started. Read the articles on the main site ... or, if you want to buy a book or two (or borrow them from your library), I highly recommend Bill Salus's Isralestine or Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum's Footsteps Of The Messiah. They are both excellent books.

[Elijah's Mantle]

worddivine an to RF


uuhm from my understanding here is a few of them you could read about

Edom would be modern Jordan
The Ishmmaelites is in Jordan
Moab = Jordan
Ammon = Jordan
Hagrites = Syria
Gebal/Byblos = Lebanon
Tyre = Lebanon
Assyria = Northern Iraq/ Aram, but really all over the "Near East"
Philistia = Gaza
Descendants of Lot = Jordan
Amalekites = Israel's southern Desert

Now...imagine the Palestinians who are already there in Israel marching toward the borders of Israel to meet the others outside Israel. Also, much of Jordan's population is Palestinian.

the other ones with the other Prophecies
uuhm 4 Ive not looked up who they are
I dont know as of yet either

would be good to know though

[dave-o]

Ok I really would like to understand what the middle east has to do with the end of times? If someone can explain this to me in simple English and Bible references, I would very much appreciate it. Please explain it to me as you would to a young adult without any formal education. Please do not cut and past some long article that you have read. I have an attention span of a flee. Thank you for your help.

GOD Bless You

Trying to give a short and simple big picture view is not easy.

But suffice it to say that it's not so much the entire ME. The center of focus is the city of Jerusalem which is in fact ground zero for the entire current ME conflict.

Jerusalem is where God chose for His name to abide. (Deuteronomy 12:11, Deuteronomy 14:23, Deuteronomy 16:6)

Because of that Jerusalem is the one place on earth that Satan covets most. It is where his seed (Gen.3:14,15), the Antichrist, will proclaim himself to be God. (2 Thessalonians 2:4)

Jerusalem is the city of the King of Kings and Satan desires to be that king. The end times are about the final battle between God and Satan. IMHO this is the reason why Jerusalem (and the ME) are central to the end times.

(There's a LOT more to it but that's the best I can do for short and simple)

[Elijah's Mantle]

Dave-O would you happen to know if that one referenced in Isaiah called Dumah out of seir if it is referring to Edom ???
or what is sometimes called also Iumea ?

I think so but in that specific chapter in Isaiah it speaks about
silence a eternal silence , a prophecy I take it is for the sons of Esau


sometimes I am a little slow at mind
ok Dumah apparently is a name meaning "silence"

The book of Isaiah is still kinda hard book for me Dave-o

I read on into Isaiah 22 and when it speaks about the burden of the valley of Vision it is speaking about Jerusalem where as reading them before I found this passage the enemies of Jerusalem spoke about which was also then "Babylon" they were name then or called "the wilderness of the sea" ...


coming back to Jerusalem modern ay now I supose in many a sense of speaking it is now as was then spoken about as
"""the burden of the valley of vision""


strange as it may sound that may be in fact how an when Israel recieves back her sight pro to speak
way her blindness ""spiritual" is lifted """

I was caused to think that true because of what wrote Isaiah
what do you reckon about it ?

[Elijah's Mantle]

gets somewhat hard to find them all
I supose them said to be the inhabitants of Tema
was the Dedanites the ones that was helped by the descendants of Abraham as they passe through

Isaiah was writing how he was seeing the defeat of the Arabians ..........Invasion of Assyria I guess

so Kedar is speaking about another part of Arabia

modern day who

I cant find it

Ill keep a looking

[dave-o]

Dave-O would you happen to know if that one referenced in Isaiah called Dumah out of seir if it is referring to Edom ???
or what is sometimes called also Iumea ?

The NKJV subtitles those verses as "Proclamation Against Edom" which I assume is correct. Sier is a mountain in Idumaea or Edom.

[Elijah's Mantle]

here is some more I found along the way

TYRE = stronghold a great one not to be confused with
TARSHISH = Spain
Chittim = Cyprus

SIHOR = another name for the Nile river in Egypt

cant find Zidon

ok like a twin city bordering TYRE the stronger city
sorry

an the feet of TYRE was her ships

[Elijah's Mantle]

The NKJV subtitles those verses as "Proclamation Against Edom" which I assume is correct. Sier is a mountain in Idumaea or Edom.

ok yes your right on Dave-O

Thank you
I can fin some the others are a little more difficult to track some of them

gets a little interesting how Moab and Babylon was like morally united in the Prophecy given

Babylon=political oppressor
MOAB= spiritual corrupter

speaks likewise in the book of Numbers in 22 also

they are the same now looks to me like
modern day
but you read how the fortress of satan is brought down
over an over it has in the past happened

Israel should have faith an not be loosing faith

the fortress of satan will fall again just as written

[WordDivine]

Both your parents used to be Ministers?

yes they were, what does that have to do with what I asked?

You obviously are familiar with the Bible. You should have some knowledge.

I am familiar with the tribes and how hard headed they were and the promise land

It is a very long and involved topic however you should know your Old Testament enough to have some idea.

Its a long topic but I was looking for someone to explain modern technicalities which someone already just did

The best way of learning is doing the hard work for yourself. There are many good articles on the Rapture Forums home pages.

I only wanted a quick review, you see the end of times does not interest me to much, war, famine all hell breaking loose its gonna happen regardless of how much I study it, read about it, worry about it or have knowledge of it. Im more concerned in making sure I do not end up in hell. I just want to serve GOD how ever he chooses for me to serve.

I would recommend you read a few articles and come back and ask your questions. Here is a link to the section called Israel and the Middle East where there are a number of good articles for you to read and get all this for yourself instead of getting us to do your home work for you.

Israel and the Middle East

There a quite a few articles but all the articles are well written with scriptures for you to study.

Im not interested in studying it just want a simple answer

[WordDivine]

worddivine an to RF


uuhm from my understanding here is a few of them you could read about

Edom would be modern Jordan
The Ishmmaelites is in Jordan
Moab = Jordan
Ammon = Jordan
Hagrites = Syria
Gebal/Byblos = Lebanon
Tyre = Lebanon
Assyria = Northern Iraq/ Aram, but really all over the "Near East"
Philistia = Gaza
Descendants of Lot = Jordan
Amalekites = Israel's southern Desert

Now...imagine the Palestinians who are already there in Israel marching toward the borders of Israel to meet the others outside Israel. Also, much of Jordan's population is Palestinian.

the other ones with the other Prophecies
uuhm 4 Ive not looked up who they are
I dont know as of yet either

would be good to know though

thanks this actually has helped me understand some of the current technicalities with the tribes

[WordDivine]

Hannah is correct we have a large library of online articles at our main site Rapture Forums - The Rapture in the End Times. she has given you a link to the appropriate area. but jut some basic background:

The Bible reveals that mankind began in the region of what we now know as the Middle East. Out of all of the tribes that came into existence sprang the city-states. And out of the ancient city-states thousands of years ago sprang the great nations and empires of history. The descendants of the ancient nations of Persia, Assyria, Egypt, Phoenicia, Edom, Midian, Sheba, etc, etc, etc still exist in modern times, though many of the names of the nations have changed along with their borders. However Israel exists in the midst of them and is hated by them all. This was prophesied thousands of years ago by various Hebrew prophets, often living in different lands, in different cultures and speaking different languages. Their only commonality was they were Hebrews— direct descendants of Abraham. All of these prophecies concerning Israel were indeed astounding. Perhaps the most astounding was that she would be destroyed and her people scattered throughout the nations where they would live in insecurity. This happened in 70 AD when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and drove the Jews into exile throughout the world. But it was also prophesied that after generations of wandering the face of the earth, living in peril in the Gentile nations, Israel would in one day become a nation again and the Jews would return from around the world. This happened, starting in May 1948. But the prophesies did not stop there. They went on to say that Israel would be surrounded by nations that would hate her and try to destroy her. This is exactly what has happened since May 1948. In addition to constant terrorism, there were major wars fought in '48; '67, '73, and we are about to see another soon. In all of them Israel beat back overwhelming odds and won. If you look at a map of the middle east and see how tiny the country is compared to the rest of the nations and how small her population is, you will see she should not have won against the might of Egypt, Syria, etc etc. She won because God said she would ... thousands of years ago.

Further, it was prophesied that the nations who tried to destroy Israel would be descendants of Ishmael the half brother of Isaac. Isaac was the son of Abraham to whom God's promise was made. He became the father of the Hebrew nation. Ishmael was Abraham's other son by his maid, Hagar, and is the father of the Arab nations. So exactly what was first prophesied about 5,000 years ago is coming to pass in our day!

Now we are moving into the area of prophecies yet to be fulfilled. And they all concern the nations that surround Israel today: in other words, the Middle East. Through ancient prophecy we learn that in the last days Israel would be a problem for the entire world. Well she is. No other nation that tiny has ever brought the entire world to the possibility of war. Yet that is exactly what we can see looming on the horizon. And 2500 years ago Zechariah prophesied that in the last days when Israel would be surrounded by enemies (as she now is) she would be a "burdensome stone" for the whole world, and all who came to try to deal with it would be ruined.

Anyway, this was a very incomplete and shallow background to get you started. Read the articles on the main site ... or, if you want to buy a book or two (or borrow them from your library), I highly recommend Bill Salus's Isralestine or Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum's Footsteps Of The Messiah. They are both excellent books.

I liked your explanation thanks it helped me understand the modern technicalities regarding the middle east

[WordDivine]

Trying to give a short and simple big picture view is not easy.

But suffice it to say that it's not so much the entire ME. The center of focus is the city of Jerusalem which is in fact ground zero for the entire current ME conflict.

Jerusalem is where God chose for His name to abide. (Deuteronomy 12:11, Deuteronomy 14:23, Deuteronomy 16:6)

Because of that Jerusalem is the one place on earth that Satan covets most. It is where his seed (Gen.3:14,15), the Antichrist, will proclaim himself to be God. (2 Thessalonians 2:4)

Jerusalem is the city of the King of Kings and Satan desires to be that king. The end times are about the final battle between God and Satan. IMHO this is the reason why Jerusalem (and the ME) are central to the end times.

(There's a LOT more to it but that's the best I can do for short and simple)

this info has been a good to refresh my memory regarding Jeruslem

[WordDivine]

Where do you think the USA will fit regarding the middle east and Jerusalem?

[Hannah]

Where do you think the USA will fit regarding the middle east and Jerusalem?

The same place as all the other Non-Middle Eastern Nations like Australia for example on the outside.

America is not mentioned in Bible Prophecy. America is not Babylon. America is not the centre of Prophecy.

[Hannah]

I only wanted a quick review, you see the end of times does not interest me to much, war, famine all hell breaking loose its gonna happen regardless of how much I study it, read about it, worry about it or have knowledge of it. Im more concerned in making sure I do not end up in hell and serve GOD how ever he chooses for me to serve.



Im not interested in studying it just want a simple answer

So basically you want the Fast Food version of the Bible. Not really wanting to fully understand it but just glean a point or two?? Good luck with that. Fast food doesn't nourish you like a good home cooked meal that took time and effort you put into it.

If you don't want to end up in Eternal Torment you require the Gospel. You need to repent of your sins and recieve Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour.

JN 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

If you have done this you are a Saved Believer and have Eternal Life.


Getting to know the gospel is much easier than trying to understanding the End Times Prophecies.

PS 119:16 I delight in your decrees; I will not neglect your word.

PS 119:81 My soul faints with longing for your salvation, but I have put my hope in your word.

PS 119:89 Your word, O LORD, is eternal; it stands firm in the heavens.

PS 119:105 Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light for my path.

PS 119:133 Direct my footsteps according to your word; let no sin rule over me.

PS 119:169 May my cry come before you, O LORD; give me understanding according to your word.


PS 19:8 The precepts of the LORD are right, giving joy to the heart.
The commands of the LORD are radiant, giving light to the eyes.
PS 19:9 The fear of the LORD is pure, enduring forever.
The ordinances of the LORD are sure and altogether righteous.
PS 19:10 They are more precious than gold, than much pure gold;
they are sweeter than honey, than honey from the comb.
PS 19:11 By them is your servant warned; in keeping them there is great reward.


PR 3:13 Blessed is the man who finds wisdom, the man who gains understanding,
PR 3:14 for she is more profitable than silver and yields better returns than gold.
PR 3:15 She is more precious than rubies; nothing you desire can compare with her.
PR 3:16 Long life is in her right hand; in her left hand are riches and honor.


PR 16:16 How much better to get wisdom than gold, to choose understanding rather than silver!


ISA 33:6 He will be the sure foundation for your times,
a rich store of salvation and wisdom and knowledge;
the fear of the LORD is the key to this treasure.

There is much to gain from studying God's Word for yourself. You are missing out on Wisdom, Blessing, Knowledge and Understanding that can only be gained through your own study or reading of God Word.

The Book of Revelation says this:-

Rev 1:3 Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.


When you have others give you second knowledge you miss out on what God wants to speak to you directly through His Word.

I'm sorry you think it isn't worth putting in the effort to study His Word for yourself.

They say you are what you eat.

(MT 4:4 Jesus answered, "It is written: `Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.' "

JN 6:35 Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty.).

[WordDivine]

So basically you want the Fast Food version of the Bible. Not really wanting to fully understand it but just glean a point or two?? Good luck with that. Fast food doesn't nourish you like a good home cooked meal that took time and effort you put into it.

I think you misunderstood my question and took it to a whole different meaning. Please refrain from criticizing me without any just cause or actually knowing me, instead pray for me so that GOD may reveal what he would like me to know and understand, not what you think I should study. I have already received the answer I was looking for from someone else with regards to my original question.