The sons of God"

[themattman]

I have a question about Who the son's of God are in Job 1:6?

[mattfivefour]

The same phrase (בני האלהים beney haelohim) is also used in Job 38:7. I believe it refers to the angelic orders. This is how the Hebrew scholars of 2,000 years ago translated it in the Greek Septuagint. They wrote: οἱ αγγελοι του θεου (hoi angeloi tou theou), literally "the angels of God". Why are they referred to as "sons of God"? John Gill suggests that it is "because of their creation by the father of spirits, and their likeness to God in holiness, knowledge, and wisdom, and being affectionate and obedient to him." Satan as an angel comes to answer God's summons with the rest of them.

[Enow]

I have a question about Who the son's of God are in Job 1:6?

Most believers will turn to scholars for the answer, but one should ask the Lord for wisdom in understanding His words.

Most will refer to the sons of God as an angelic order, but there is a problem with that. In both event when the sons of God presented themselves to the Lord, Job was mentioned from among them. One has to ask the question why. For God to refer to someone outside of this presentation would not only be insulting to the sons of God, but they would be wondering why they would even bother. So the only reason Job was mentioned TWICE was because he was among the sons of God.

Why did Satan presented himself among them? First off, Satan answered the question about where he had come from: roaming the earth: if that is not a clue as to where this presentation was occurring, I do not know what is. The idea of God coming to the earth is not far fecthed when Cain and Abel made their "sacrifices" to present to the Lord. In this case: the sons of God were presenting themselves.

Second: Satan has fallen. He can no longer present himself for inspection among the angelic order. It would be futility in and of itself. But since man was made a little lower than an angel and has fallen into sin, then one could see why Satan would bother to present himself with the "best" mankind has to offer.

I know that there is a hard reading later on in Job when God questioned Job of being there when the foundation of the earth was laid, and the morning staqrs sang when the sons of God shouted for joy, but God was referencing the presentation that Job had been a part of in worshipping the God of creation. He was not inferring that the sons of God were there at the beginning, but that Job ought to know better since he had sung with the sons of God in giving God the glory in creation. Indeed, God had referenced several other points of boundaries that Job have witnessed and still can see the wonders of God im creation. The thing to rememeber is that Job was mentioned TWICE as being seen with the sons of God to fully keep that reference in context of the beginning of the forst two chapters of the book of Job.

Then you have the reason why sons of God was mentioned in Genesis and Job: as a reference to the family roots of God's chosen people, the Israelites when they read the scripture.

Luke 3:38Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

The most often overlooked term that scholars have done in history is "sons" as pertaining to a lineage: a line of descent. Angels are not marrying nor given in marriage and thus no there can be no lineage to refer to any of them as "sons".

Why would they think such a thing? There is a passage in Isaiah wherein another misperception of scholars in the past have made: that Lucifer was the former name of Satan: but it is not. That infamous reference was a proverb given to a Babylonian king. The term "Lucifer" is a reference to the bright star of Venus as seen in the morning. If one read the message in context: it is not referring to Satan at all.

Isaiah 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!.....9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. 10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us? 11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Satan's corpse is not rotting in the ground. Only the body of fallen man can be referenced here.

It is from this misreading that scholars throughout church history then assumed that the sons of God was referring to an angelic order because of that phrase: son of the morning, but it is just referencing a familiar face in the morning sky.

We can know that "sons of God" is referencing a lineage as believers in Jesus Christ are now of that lineage as well: of that promised seed.

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

So "sons of God" was a reference that Moses had used in Genesis to referenced the family roots of Israel: God's chosen people. Being of the lineage of Seth, with His help, we can see why the decline of the world began when the sons of God married outside of their godly lineage, referencing the godly example set for Israel not to marry outside of Israel. The commandement to not marry immediate family members as in siblings: did not occur until Israel became a nation, because Abraham did marry his sister.

Genesis 20:11 And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake. 12 And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.

It was when Israel became a nation that God had forbidden marrying within the immediate family and forbidding to marry outside the nation of Israel: thus keeping within the godly lineage of that nation.

Deuteronomy 27:22Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of his mother. And all the people shall say, Amen.

This is why the books of Enoch were considered forgeries and were dropped since angels are not marrying nor given in marriage for God's words to call these women "wives" to these "sons of God". God's words would not call homosexuals as wives to the same sex so neither would His words call fallen angels "the sons of God" nor the women "wives" to them. That would be considered a lie in His words.

So that is why all believers should just go before that throne of grace for wisdom in understanding His words to find the answers they seek.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

2 Timothy 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

[mattfivefour]

O come ON, brother! By your reasoning that Job was among the sons of God is totally without any substance and makes the book of Job ridiculous. If he was there and saw what Satan said to God and God's response, why would he be taken by surprise at what befell him? Why would he question why God permitted this all to happen?

Your attempt to twist the plain meaning of Job 38:4-7 to align with your interpretation is unworthy of scholarship!

The phrase "sons of God" in a number of forms is used in differing contexts in the OT and the NT. It is erroneous to attempt to have the phrase always mean the same thing when the context clearly indicates it does not.

BTW, I have removed your KJV Only argument at the end of your post. There is no need to insert this agenda into every post. We get your point; some of us just disagree.

[Enow]

O come ON, brother! By your reasoning that Job was among the sons of God is totally without any substance and makes the book of Job ridiculous.

If the occasion was once, then there would be grounds to doubt and consider what you had posted, but twice? No. Job was indeed among this presentation of the sons of God.

Plus, it lines up with other scriptures as well.

If he was there and saw what Satan said to God and God's response, why would he be taken by surprise at what befell him? Why would he question why God permitted this all to happen?

I am sure you have talked about other people that you have seen in the assembly without the person in that assembly hearing you.

Your attempt to twist the plain meaning of Job 38:4-7 to align with your interpretation is unworthy of scholarship!

All I can ask of you is to take pause and reconsider, leaning on Jesus in the event you are missing something, because I understand why you see it as plainly but only because we have been taught this.

The thing one has to consider is why the sons of God would shout for joy at this?

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Is it Job among the sons of God giving praise to the God of creation?

Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Yes: Job was not there, but scripture clearly states that Job knew what God was talking about, and referencing how he was among the sons of God praising Him as the God of creation, makes Job look all the more like a dunce.

Read on.

Job 38:8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb? 9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it, 10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors, 11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?

Did not God flooded the world? Would not Job have knowledge of that as well?

All I am sharing is that scholars have made assumption and why I am reading those verses in context with the first two chapters as Job being among the sons of God praising the God of creation when they had gathered together to present themselves to the Lord.

Consider this:

It is obvious that Lucifer is not the former name of Satan: and yet it is a solid teaching based on the misreading of the scripture in Isaiah 14th chapter, but the proverb is towards the king of Babylon as well as the prophesy that he will die in an unmarked grave as his body will rot by worms.

But yet from it: scholars had associated the "son of the morning" to the devil and from that assumption comes the assumption that the sons of God are referring to an angelic order later on in Job. They fail to equate Romans 1:19-20 and what else the sons of God would be doing when they had presented themselves to the Lord in the first two chapters of Job as tying in with Job 38:7.

The phrase "sons of God" in a number of forms is used in differing contexts in the OT and the NT. It is erroneous to attempt to have the phrase always mean the same thing when the context clearly indicates it does not.

There would be no point for Moses or anyone else to reference the "sons of God" as a reference of the nation of Israel of their family root if it meant angels also.

Please bear with me: look up at this link to Strong's Concordance:

Job Chapter 38 - King James Bible With Strong's Dictionary - Bible Software by johnhurt.com

Go down to verse 7 and click on "sons". May God help you to see that sons cannot be angels as they cannot build a family name. Scholars focussed on the term for God without noting how the term for sons exclude it as being of angels.

[mattfivefour]

Trust me , my brother, I continually lean on Jesus for interpretation and explanation. Even though He called me as a teacher and pastor I know the ability and the knowledge and the3 wisdom to be that does NOT rest in me in the least. I try to live in continual submission to His authority and remain in continual prayer that I never walk apart from His Word. Should I teach that which is not of Him, I will answer for it. Trust me, I have no desire to answer to God for idly speaking that which He has not said. Therefore I am very, very careful before preaching or teaching. The other pastors on this site (whether mods or not), I know are the same way.

I am not going to argue with you further. brother. As one of the pastors of this site, one of the men whom God has called alongside Chris, I am well aware that God will hold us responsible for the teachings here and their effect on the souls of His people. Therefore we are going to prayerfully lead as God lays it on our hearts and leads us. Two years ago, discussion with you led to the same types of vain argument that we have seen in this thread and the other current thread. I know you are convinced of your own correctness in the things you have said. But please now hold further argument over those views to yourself. You have stated your beliefs and why you believe them. Now let them sit there for others to view and prayerfully judge. Further arguments will be removed.

[dave-o]

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Q. So if we have to become the sons of God whose sons were we before?
A. Not God's!

Luke 3:38Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Yes Adam was the son of God because he had no earthly father or mother. But what about Seth?

Genesis 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

AGAIN:
Q. So if we have to become the sons of God whose sons were we before?
A. Fallen Adam's!

This is very apparent throughout the book of Ezekiel where the status of this prophet's son-ship is CLEARLY stated in almost every chapter.

2 And he said unto me, Son of man, stand upon thy feet, and I will speak unto thee.
3 And he said unto me, Son of man, I send thee to the children of Israel,[...]
6 “And you, son of man, do not be afraid of them nor be afraid of their words,[...]


There is only ONE person, born of a woman, who was both the son of man and the son of God. Surely I need not name Him? (Well, if you insist... JESUS!!)

[mattfivefour]

Indeed! And to take it further, Romans 9:8 teaches that "They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." So if those who are not of the promise—in other words, those who are not of faith in Jesus Christ (John 1:12)—are not the children of God, then whose children are they? Well, to those who trusted in their religious works and their religious heritage, Jesus said, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it" (John 8:44). Ephesians 2:2 and 5:6 add to this by extending the fatherhood of Satan to all who are disobedient. In fact, the Bible teaches there are only two families, two inheritances, on earth— the family of God and the family of Satan (1 John 3:10). And Ephesians 3:3 reveals that the family of Satan are also the children, the inheritors, of God's wrath.

[RandallB]

I have heard that ancient times the term 'sons of' has the connotation of 'source of origin' rather than ‘genetic reproduction’ which is the flavor that our modern day puts on that term.

The angels were directly created by God as was Adam.

[Eyes To Heaven]

I had a really hard time understanding all of this thread. Can someone please explain in layman's terms what all of this means. I feel like I'm in a 400 level THEO course.

For what it is worth: While at Liberty University, most of the professors, interpreted "sons of God" to mean angels or something along those lines. I think they even equivocated "sons of God" to the "giants" earlier in the OT. I would like to understand this closer.

Off to read Job.

[Any Minute]

I had a really hard time understanding all of this thread. Can someone please explain in layman's terms what all of this means. I feel like I'm in a 400 level THEO course.

For what it is worth: While at Liberty University, most of the professors, interpreted "sons of God" to mean angels or something along those lines. I think they even equivocated "sons of God" to the "giants" earlier in the OT. I would like to understand this closer.

Off to read Job.

Here's a very good paper on the subject. Not exactly *lite* reading but very thorough with plenty of scriptural references.
http://www.apologeticspress.org/rr/r...-Genesis-6.pdf

BTW- Welcome to RF, look forward to reading more of your posts!