Lamb's Book of Life and Book of Life seem to be two different books.

[RandallB]

Been doing a short bible study on Books of Life. Please comment...

Lamb's Book of Life and Book of Life seem to be two different books.

Double Accounting Method???

Lamb's Book of Life
1. Never talks about names being blotted out of the LBoL
2. Seems to be list of all those the Lord Foreknew would accept His Free Gift
3. Seems names wrtten when accepting the Lord's Free Gift.
4. Seems that OT Saints, Bride, & Trib Saints are written in LBoL. -- Rev 13:8
5. Name in LBoL necessary to enter New Jerusalem -- Revelation 21:27
5. Mentioned only twice - Rev 13:8 & Revelation 21:27



Book of Life or Book of the Living
Seems that:
1. the Lord will blot out names that sin against Him --Psalm 69:28
2. all names of everyone that will be born was written before the foundation of the world -- Rev 17:8
3. names are blotted out if they die without obtaining the righteous of God - Free Gift -- Psalm 69:28
4. name missing from BoL = Lake o' Fire @ GWT -- Rev 20:15

The promise of Revelation 3:5 is directed to believers (overcomers are those that accept Jesus as God's Son), who are secure in their salvation. In contrast, the warning of Revelation 22:19 is directed to unbelievers, who, rather than change their hearts toward God, attempt to change God’s Word to suit themselves.

[dave-o]

[...]
Book of Life or Book of the Living
Seems that:

2. all names of everyone that will be born was written before the foundation of the world -- Rev 17:8
[...]

Revelation 17:8
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

This passage seems to say that some have been or will be born who did not have their names written in the BofL from the beginning.

[mattfivefour]

Randall, I might point out that Psalm 69:28 is not God revealing something to us, but David calling on God to blot out people's names who did him evil. We cannot, thus, construct a doctrine that God does blot out names, based on that verse. If God did everything everybody in the bible had asked, this world would be a quite different place. Instead God does what is in His nature and His will to do.

Dave, God is omniscient, and omniscience necessitates prescience. He knew before the world began who would turn to Him and who, despite everything He could do (short of violating the free will He would give each person), would never turn to Him. That is why we have security in Him to the end, because He KNOWS who are His and HE preserves them. WE prove to ourselves we are His by persevering in faith in Him. The two—perseverance and preservation—are inseparably interwoven.

[dave-o]

I agree mattfivefour but the purpose of my reply to Randall was that his point #2 and the proof text he cited seem to be contradictory.

[RandallB]

Good Points! Thx...

I can agree with you on Psalm 69:28 being a prayer of David and doesn't demand an actual blotting, however

Revelation 22:19
"And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the Book of Life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

seems to indicate an actual blotting.

If so then some names are blotted out which means they were written in at some point even with the Lord's Perfect Foreknowing. Nothing here suggests that the Lord is surprised by any of this. We seem to be given glimpses into the Lord's bookkeeping methods.

Some names seem to be not written in from the foundations of the world as Dave points out.

Pretty sure that I do not understand this.

*********************


Seems that they are two books.

gotquestions.org states that they are the same book. Several pundits use the "Same Book" position to argue that there is no eternal salvation since names are blotted out of the Book of Life. I have real problems with this.

Jack Kelly feels that there are two books but only the Bride is in the Lamb's Book of Life therefore only the Bride will have access to New Jerusalem due to Revelation 21:27 . Need to think on that one a bit more.

[mattfivefour]

Randall, I think they are one and the same book. There is only one eternal life with God and, hence, why would there be more than one record of those who will enter into it?

As to Revelation 22:19, the great commentators all seem to agree that "taking away" someone's part "out of the Book of Life and out of the Holy City" (the New Jerusalem) refers to the part they might have had if they had only been true in their desire for God and His Word. To subtract from God's Word is an act of un-faith. Only those who think of themselves higher than they ought and who exalt their intelligence above God would dare to do something like that. Since John dealt with the Gnostics and with others who disputed his words, and since no other of the apostles remained alive at this point to protect and preserve John's account, this is a stern warning to all who would receive a copy of the manuscript to not tamper with it in any way. This way it would be preserved for all who might read it.

Nobody who is truly saved would consciously attempt to alter or subtract from God's Word. To us His Word is beyond precious!

(BTW, let us remember that the Book of Revelation is what is being referred to in the words "if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy." Some people try to apply this verse to the entire Bible.)

[mikhen7]

Hello saints. see my explanation under the Terry James Thread concerning Children in the Trib. It can be confusing for sure.

God Bless!

[mattfivefour]

I read your post, Mike. Interesting. Very. I will mull it over.

[dave-o]

I just wanted to point out the the Book of Life was well known to Moses

Exodus 32:32
Yet now, if You will forgive their sin—but if not, I pray, blot me out of Your book which You have written.” 33 And the LORD said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

I've seen people research this topic before and they often miss that.

Also one of Daniel's visions indicate that there is possibly more than one book:

Daniel 7:10
A fiery stream issued And came forth from before Him. A thousand thousands ministered to Him; Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him. The court was seated, And the books were opened.

[SlavicBaptist]

That is a ridiculous theory. OSAS is a false doctrine, according to the Bible. I can give pages of Scripture which say that. I am tired of people believing in this garbage... Satan has done a good job getting his lie from Garden of Eden to infiltrate the church.

I've read an article by Ron Graham recently that said those that commit suicide can go to heaven! And Jack Kelley even wrote an article that says sodomites will be raptured! I'm sorry, but I can't imagine God rapturing a sodomite while he's in the act..

[dave-o]

That is a ridiculous theory. OSAS is a false doctrine, according to the Bible. I can give pages of Scripture which say that. I am tired of people believing in this garbage... Satan has done a good job getting his lie from Garden of Eden to infiltrate the church.

I've read an article by Ron Graham recently that said those that commit suicide can go to heaven! And Jack Kelley even wrote an article that says sodomites will be raptured! I'm sorry, but I can't imagine God rapturing a sodomite while he's in the act..

By denying OSAS you're saying that salvation is NOT a free gift but rather something that God merely loans to a person and He will immediately repossess it IF that person fails to meet certain conditions.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
Romans 5:15
But the free gift is not like the offense [...]
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

No my friend, the false doctrine is from those who preach that you must labor continuously being very careful to do or not do things and earn the right to keep the free gift.

[dave-o]

That is a ridiculous theory. OSAS is a false doctrine, according to the Bible. I can give pages of Scripture which say that. I am tired of people believing in this garbage... Satan has done a good job getting his lie from Garden of Eden to infiltrate the church.

I've read an article by Ron Graham recently that said those that commit suicide can go to heaven! And Jack Kelley even wrote an article that says sodomites will be raptured! I'm sorry, but I can't imagine God rapturing a sodomite while he's in the act..

Colossians 3:3
For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

The moment you were saved YOU DIED!! In, with, through and entirely because of Christ you already paid the price for all your sins past present and future. Your life, the very life that will eventually be placed into your resurrected body is "hidden with Christ in God" where not even YOU can harm it in any way.

1 John 3:9
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Romans 7:17
But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

Colossians 2:12
buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Get it? The "second death" can no longer can touch you because you already died it and were raised with Christ.

[Any Minute]

That is a ridiculous theory. OSAS is a false doctrine, according to the Bible. I can give pages of Scripture which say that. I am tired of people believing in this garbage... Satan has done a good job getting his lie from Garden of Eden to infiltrate the church.

I've read an article by Ron Graham recently that said those that commit suicide can go to heaven! And Jack Kelley even wrote an article that says sodomites will be raptured! I'm sorry, but I can't imagine God rapturing a sodomite while he's in the act..

Every time I read your comments denying eternal security, I pray that the Lord will open your eyes and give you understanding. I know there are many heresies taught from pulpits around the world, such as easy believism, say a prayer you’re good to go, fire insurance type of sermons, but your insistence on unbiblical conditional security is not the way of refuting those false teachings.

Faith is what pleases God. Properly placed faith in Jesus alone and His shed blood at the cross. We are fully justified and made righteous in Him the instant we place our faith in Christ alone. Sin severs relationship but it does not affect son- ship. Once we are adopted, we are eternally a child of God. No one (not even ourselves) can pry us out of His hand. Neither you or I have the ability to undo what belongs to God.

It is hard for us to imagine the thoughts and mind of God (impossible outside of what he has revealed to us in His Word), be careful using flawed human logic and applying it to God.

You have listed two sins that you believe aren’t covered by His blood (assuming they were believers), what else? Are those who believe in eternal security “a ridiculous theory” and “garbage” as you call it, going to be left behind also at the rapture? What unrepentant sin will condemn a born again believer to eternal hell? If our last breath and thought aren’t spent on begging forgiveness for known or unknown sin in our lives, then I guess we’re all doomed.

I (and I’m sure others here) will continue to pray that you will come to know and understand the comfort, joy, and peace that comes with eternal security. Of course it’s not a license to knowingly sin, the result is quite the opposite believe it or not.

[Any Minute]

dave-o, You are absolutely correct in your posts!

My apologies to RandallB for the derail reply.

[mattfivefour]

Every time I read your comments denying eternal security, I pray that the Lord will open your eyes and give you understanding. I know there are many heresies taught from pulpits around the world, such as easy believism, say a prayer you’re good to go, fire insurance type of sermons, but your insistence on unbiblical conditional security is not the way of refuting those false teachings.

Faith is what pleases God. Properly placed faith in Jesus alone and His shed blood at the cross. We are fully justified and made righteous in Him the instant we place our faith in Christ alone. Sin severs relationship but it does not affect son- ship. Once we are adopted, we are eternally a child of God. No one (not even ourselves) can pry us out of His hand. Neither you or I have the ability to undo what belongs to God.

It is hard for us to imagine the thoughts and mind of God (impossible outside of what he has revealed to us in His Word), be careful using flawed human logic and applying it to God.

You have listed two sins that you believe aren’t covered by His blood (assuming they were believers), what else? Are those who believe in eternal security “a ridiculous theory” and “garbage” as you call it, going to be left behind also at the rapture? What unrepentant sin will condemn a born again believer to eternal hell? If our last breath and thought aren’t spent on begging forgiveness for known or unknown sin in our lives, then I guess we’re all doomed.

I (and I’m sure others here) will continue to pray that you will come to know and understand the comfort, joy, and peace that comes with eternal security. Of course it’s not a license to knowingly sin, the result is quite the opposite believe it or not.

This is correct doctrine, Daniel. As I have said before, true grace produces the desire for holiness. The truly saved will not desire to continue sinning. They may struggle with a besetting sin, but they will STRUGGLE with it, not just accept it and revel in it. Those who believe in conditional security (which actually, when you truly think about it, means conditional salvation) do so out of an attempt to please God; a partial reading of scripture which gives a false doctrine, as does all partial reading of scripture; and a failure to truly understand the completeness of Christ's sacrifice on the Cross and, thus, the greatness of God's redemption of man. Nonetheless, they are dear, dear brothers in Christ and our prayers should always be with them.

[RandallB]

Fantastic biblical replies Adrian, Daniel, & dave-o !!!
And early in the morning - even before second breakfasts.