a serious question Respecting the Holy Spirit

[Elijah's Mantle]

I imagine most if not all have read scripture and Acts regarding
the baptism of the Holy Spirit . I am very aware most if not all have mixed beliefs regarding "speaking in tongues" Lets get real it really is hard to rightly divide for some of us Christians

I say that because .......

As most would know I personally feel extremely uncomfortable endorsing any type of ""Doubt or disbelief" regarding or respecting any subject of study where it is something as important as ""The Holy spirit" and the gifts "OF" ....... given by... "The Holy Spirit"

so Ive avoided even asking some not so ask questions on the account of personally knowing it is dangerous to attempt to deny or disbelieve certain doctrinal beliefs to endorse others
and call it rightly divided when I personally do not feel the slightest ""at ease" stating anything that would could or even might be taken as unbelief toward

that for me is a hang up I have about discussing "speaking in tongues"

Do any of you feel the same way ?
that it is just as dangerous to endorse any kind of doubt or unbelief regarding gifts of , as it is to say what passes as speaking in tongues today is or is not a gift most would seek out ?


I will only ask one thing as hopeful answers come in on this topic


for the sake of "ALL" believers
lets not endorse doubt or unbelief regarding rightly dividing
scripture on whether the gifts of tongues is for today as all would know that's not wise respecting the giver of all gifts is
the "HOLY" spirit . Its a respect I ask all keep because I do feel I have obligation to safeguard certainties with some things

However I would like to get a balanced comprehension
on it without offense regarding the subject

I do not speak in tongues
I do not endorse exercising doubt or unbelief regarding those who do in which I have stated why I do not

I would like to know
why those who do hold belief in speaking in tongues state
that the Baptism of the Holy spirit is always without exception accompanied by speaking in tongues

???

If some one could help answer this offering clear scripture I would be very grateful

[Meg]

I would like to know
why those who do hold belief in speaking in tongues state
that the Baptism of the Holy spirit is always without exception accompanied by speaking in tongues

???

Ah yes, the endlessly divisive Tongues argument... It usually seems that whatever side most people are on, their opinion for or against is always right and the opposite opinion is always wrong. I suspect by now, dear brother, you are well aware of this problem. Here's one way of looking at this issue; a gift, by nature, is freely given and freely received, right? Unlike an obligation, which is forced, for example. The Lord is under no obligation to force a gift on anyone, and nobody is under an obligation to do something they are genuinely uncomfortable with. Our God is full of righteousness, justice and love, correct? Therefore, with that preamble in place, I will again state that the man who led me to Christ has been given the Gift of evangelism, but he doesn't speak in Tongues, never has and never will. Robert doesn't speak in Tongues either, but I think it is clear enough to all that he's filled with the Holy Spirit and serves the Lord in spirit and in truth. I, however, do speak in Tongues. For me, it was a sign to remember the Lord by and a touchpoint to which I could and did return after 23 years backslidden. So if you do or if you do not speak in Tongues is pretty insignificant, in my opinion and the experience of devoted Christians whose walk with the Lord I trust.

I hope this brings you peace, Elijah, as Tongues is just a sign to some, not an obligation to all, such as repentance and believing in Jesus Christ.

[Bobbi]

When I was first saved I attended an AG church. Pretty much speaking in Tongues was promoted as the clear evidence of being baptised in the Holy Spirit. So I went forward to get this baptism of the Holy Spirit because only with the baptism of the Holy Spirit were you truly sealed. What happened is that an evangalist came over to me and laid his hand on me and told me to just speak and you will eventually received the Holy Spirit. My biggest problem with is approach is that I am not sure I really received the gift of tongues or if I made up something myself. No one could ever verify if this was truly real or not. I struggled with anger and after I got saved I still struggled with anger even after I was "baptised with the Spirit" so much so that I wasn't sure I was really saved because if I was, how come I didn't change and still had a problem with anger.

About 10 years ago I left the AG church and started attending a baptist church. I am not sure how the gift of tongues can really be verified that it is a real language, or just noises people make and say they speak in tongues. I did know a woman who went on a tour to Israel and she was praying at the wailing wall and she was speaking in Hebrew. Next to her was a Jewish man and he asked her a question in Hebrew, she told him she didn't know Hebrew and he told her that he had just heard her praying in Hebrew.

Stange as it may seem when Paul and Peter went and visited gentiles the gentiles didn't ask for the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues, but they received it anyway. So if this is for our day how come all Christians don't have a gift that was given to anyone who Paul laid his hand on?

[Elijah's Mantle]

God Bless you Meg yes that does bring peace , much moreover than other wrongly divided doubts and unbelief toward the gifts and the giver of gifts Ive seen ridden in on the back of divisive notions that to me is just well stupid religious divisiveness which has no power to do a solitary thing for the dead or the living brings me no pleasure to state it that bluntly but Id be cutting the truth short if I didn't

Stange as it may seem when Paul and Peter went and visited gentiles the gentiles didn't ask for the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues, but they received it anyway. So if this is for our day how come all Christians don't have a gift that was given to anyone who Paul laid his hand on?

Bobbi this little written piece guided me a little further to come to a little more solid foundation regarding the "word"
Hope it helps others

The Holy Spirit's
Work in Salvation

by Arthur W. Pink

In Acts 19 we learn that when the apostle Paul came to Ephesus he asked some disciples of John the Baptist "Have ye received the Holy Spirit since ye believed?" (v. 2) And we are told "They said unto him, We have not so much is heard whether there be any Holy Spirit." Sad to say, history has repeated itself. Without doubt, were the members of hundreds of so-called "churches" (in which modernism and worldliness rule) asked the same question, they would be obliged to return an identical answer. The reason why those disciples at Ephesus knew not about the Holy Spirit was, most probably, because they had been baptized in Judea by the forerunner of Christ and then had returned to Ephesus where they remained in ignorance of what had taken place on the day of Pentecost. But the reason why the members of the average "church" know nothing about the third Person of the Godhead is because the preachers they sit under are silent concerning Him.

Nor is it very much better with many of the churches still counted as orthodox. Though the Person of the Spirit may not be reputiated and though His name may occasionally be mentioned, yet, with only rare exceptions is there any definite scriptural teaching given out concerning the offices and operations of the divine Comforter. As to His work in salvation, this is very little understood even by professing Christians. In the majority of the places where the Lord Jesus is still formally acknowledged to be the only Savior for sinners, the current teaching of the day is that Christ has made it possible for men to be saved, but that they themselves must decide whether they shall be saved. The idea now so widely prevailing is that Christ is offered to man's acceptance, and that he must "accept Christ as his personal Savior," "give his heart to Jesus," "take his stand for Christ," etc., if the blood of the Cross is to avail for his sins. Thus, according to this conception, the finished work of Christ, the greatest work of all time and in all the universe is left contingent on the fickle will of man as to whether it shall be a success or a failure!

Entering now a much narrower circle in Christendom, in places where it is yet owned that the Holy Spirit has a mission and ministry in connection with the preaching of the Gospel, the general idea prevails even there that when the Gospel of Christ is faithfully preached, the Holy Spirit convicts men of sin and reveals to them their need of a Savior. But beyond this very few are prepared to go. The theory prevailing in these places is that the sinner has to cooperate with the Spirit, that he himself must yield to the Spirit's "striving" or he will not and cannot be saved. But this pernicious and God-insulting theory denies two things: to argue that the natural man is capable of cooperating with the Spirit is to deny that he is "dead in trespasses and sins" for a dead man is incapable of doing anything. And, to say that the operations of the Spirit in a man's heart and conscience may be resisted, withstood, is to deny His omnipotence!

Ere proceeding further, and in order to clear the way for what is to follow, a few words need to be said on "My Spirit shall not always strive with man," (Gen. 6:3) and "ye do always resist the Holy Spirit." (Acts 7:51) Now these passages refer to the external work of the Spirit, that is, to His testimony through the preached Word. 1 Peter 3:18-20 shows that it was the Spirit of Christ in Noah who "strove" with the antediluvians as the patriarch preached to them. (2 Peter 2:5) So in Acts 7 the very next words explain v. 51- "Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted?" As Nehemiah said, "Many years didst Thou forbear them, and testifiedst against them by Thy Spirit in Thy prophets." (Neh. 9:30)

The external work of the Spirit, His testimony through the Scriptures as it falls on the outward ear of the natural man, is always "resisted" and rejected, which only affords solemn and full demonstration of the awful fact that "the carnal mind is enmity against God." (Rom. 8:7) But what we would now point out is that Scripture reveals another work of the Holy Spirit, a work that is internal, imperceptible, invisible. This work is always EFFICACIOUS. It is the Spirit's work in salvation, begun in the heart at the new birth, continued or sustained throughout the entire course of the Christian's life on earth, and concluded and consummated in Heaven. This is what is referred to in Phil. 1:6: "He which hath begun a good work in you will finish it." This is what is in view in Psa. 138:8: "The Lord will perfect that which concerneth me." This work is wrought by the Spirit in each of "God's elect," and in them alone.

It has been well said that "The part and office of the Holy Spirit in the salvation of God's elect consists in renewing them. He quickens the heirs of glory with a spiritual life, enlightens their minds to know Christ, reveals Him to them, forms Him in their hearts, and brings them to build all their hopes of eternal glory on Him alone. He sheds abroad the Father's love in their hearts, and gives them a real sense of it. In which experience of His gracious and effectual work in their souls, they are made to say with the Psalmist, "Blessed is the man whom Thou choosest, and causeth to approach unto Thee, that he may dwell in Thy courts" (Psa. 65:4)."

One of the delusions of the day is that an evangelical believing in Christ lies within the power of the unrenewed man, so that by performiing what is naively called "a simple act of faith" he becomes a renewed man. In other words, it is supposed that man is the beginner of his own salvation. He takes the first step, and God does the rest; he "believes" and then God comes in and saves him. This is nothing but a bald and blank denial of the Spirit's work altogether. If there is one time more than another when the sinner lies in need of the Spirit's power it is at the beginning. "He who denies the need of the Spirit at the beginning, cannot believe in His work at the after stages--nay, cannot believe in the need of the Spirit's work at all. The mightiest and most insuperable difficulty lies at the beginning. If the sinner can get over that without the Spirit, he can easily get over the rest. If he does not need the Spirit to enable him to believe, he will not need Him to enable him to love." (H. Bonar)

They err greatly who think that after the Spirit has done His work in the conscience it still remains for man to say whether he shall be regenerated or not, whether he shall believe or no. The Spirit of God does not wait for the sinner to exercise his will to believe; instead He works in the "elect" "both to will and to do." (Phil. 2:13) Therefore does Jehovah declare, "I am found of them that sought Me NOT." (Isa. 65:1. Quoted by Paul in Rom.10:20). To "believe" in Christ savingly is a supernatural act, the product of supernatural grace. There is no more power in fallen man to believe to the saving of his soul than he has any merits of his own entitling him to the favor of God; thus, he is as dependent on the Spirit for power as on Christ for worthiness. The Spirit's work is to apply the redemption which the Lord Jesus purchased for His people, and the children of God owe their salvation to the One equally as much as to the Other.

In Titus 3:5 the salvation of the redeemed is expressly attributed to God the Spirit: "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit." "If it be asked in what sense men can be said to be "saved" by the renewing of the Spirit, the answer is obvious: There is a series of truths to which no link can be wanting. We are saved by the divine purpose, for God hath chosen us to salvation: we are saved by the atonement as the meritorious ground of all; we are saved by faith as the bond of union to Christ; we are saved by grace as contrasted with works done; we are saved by the truth as conveying God's testimony; and, as here, we are saved by the renewing of the Holy Spirit, as producing faith in the heart." (Prof. Smeaton)

REGENERATION IS BY THE SPIRIT

"And you hath He quickened who were dead in trespasses and sins." (Eph. 2:1) The quickening of those who are dead in trespasses is the work of the third Person of the Trinity: "That which is born of the Spirit is spirit." (John 3:6) The natural man is spiritually dead. He is alive sinward and worldward but dead Godward--"allenated from the life of God." (Eph. 4:18) If this solemn truth were really believed, there would be an end to controversy on our present subject. A dead man cannot "cooperate" with the Spirit, nor can he "accept Christ." In 2 Cor. 3:5 we read, "Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think anything." That is said of Christians. If the regenerate have no capacity to "think" spiritually, still less are the unregenerate able to.

"The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned." (1 Cor. 2:14) What could be plainer? The "natural man" is fallen in his unregenerate state. Unless he is born from above he is completely devoid of spiritual discernment. Our Lord expressly declared, "Except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3) The "natural man" cannot see himself, his ruin, his depravity, the filthiness of his own righteousness. No matter how plainly God's Truth is presented to him, being blind, he cannot discern either its meaning, spiritually, or suitedness to his need. A spiritual understanding of the Gospel is as truly due to the operation of the Holy Spirit as that He is the Author of the divine Revelation. Spiritual life must precede spiritual sight, and the Spirit Himself must enter the heart before there is "life": "And shall put My Spirit in you, and ye shall live." (Ezek. 37:14)

The work of the Spirit in regeneration is a divine miracle which is the result of His forthputting of supernatural power. It is quickening of a spiritual corpse; it is the bringing of a dead soul to life. The sinner himself can no more accomplish it by an act of his own will than he can create a universe. This miracle of grace is spoken of in Scripture as "the exceeding greatness of His power to usward who believe, according to the working of His mighty power, which He wrought in Christ when He raised Him from the dead." (Eph. 1:19, 29) "The same power which was put forth to raise Christ from the dead is put forth in regeneration . . . Christ's resurrection is the exemplary pattern of our spiritual resurrection, according to which, as the Spirit wrought in Him, so He works in us a work conformed to His resurrection. As the resurrection of Christ was the great declaration of His being the Son of God, so in regeneration of our being the sons of God, being the evidence of our adoption, and also the first discovery of our election. As Christ's resurrection is the first step to His eternal kingdom and glory, so regeneration is the first open introduction to all the blessings of that state of grace into which the child of God is now introduced." (S.E. Pierce)

MEETNESS FOR HEAVEN IS BY THE SPIRIT

Our title to the glory lies solely in the righteousness of Christ; our personal fitness for it lies in the Holy Spirit's regenerating of us. All our meetness for the heavenly state was wrought in us in regeneration. Writing to the regenerated Colossians the apostle said, "Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light." And then he shows wherein this "meetness" consists: "'Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of His dear Son" (v. 13) Their title is without them; their "meetness" within. The Holy Spirit has created in them a nature which is capacitated to know and enjoy the Triune God.

In our unregenerate state we were completely under the power of darkness, that is, of sin and Satan, and we were less able to deliver ourselves from this bondage than Jonah was able to escape from the belly of the whale. We "sat in darkness" and "in the region and shadow of death." (Matt. 4:16) We were "captives," "bound" and in "prison." (Isa. 61:1) We were those "having no hope, and without God in the world." (Eph. 2:12) From this dreadful state every renewed soul has been "delivered" by the gracious, sovereign and invincible power of the Holy Spirit, and has been "translated into the kingdom of God's dear Son." Then let each renewed reader give equal homage, adoration and worship to Him as to the Father and to the Son.

JUSTIFICATION AND SANCTIFICATION
ARE BY THE SPIRIT

"And such were some of you; but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justifiied in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." (1 Cor. 6:11) This is a remarkable scripture, and little pondered. It would lead us too far away from our theme were we to attempt a full exposition of it. Two things here would we barely point out: the three saving blessings enumerated in this verse are referred, first, to the "name" or merits of Christ as His own procuring cause; and then to the Holy Spirit who makes the elect partakers of them by His own effectual application. He it is who enlightens their minds and opens their hearts to take in and be assured that they are "washed, sanctified and justified."

FAITH IS FROM THE SPIRIT

A deeply taught servant of God once wrote to a young preacher, "Never represent faith as being an act so "simple" that the work of the ispirit is not needed to produce it." Yet this is what has been commonly done. A great many of the evangelists of the past hundred years have displayed a zeal which was not according to knowledge (Rom. 10:2), and manifested a far greater concern to see souls saved than to preach the truth of God in its purity. In their efforts to show the simplicity of the "way of salvation" they have lost sight of the difficulties of salvation (Luke 18:24; 1 Peter 4:18): in their pressing of the responsibility of man to believe, they have ignored the fact that none can believe till the Spirit imparts faith. To present Christ to the sinner and then throw him back on his own will, is to mock him in his helplessness; the work of the Spirit in the heart is as real and urgent a need as was the work of Christ on the Cross. For the heart to truly believe in and trust God is a spiritual act, a "good fruit," and if fallen man possesses inherent power to do good, then to present the Atonement to him is altogether needless.

There is no middle ground between life and death; no intermediate stage between conversion and non-conversion. The bestowal of eternal life is instantaneus; we are "created in Christ Jesus." (Eph. 2:10) It is a most serious error to suppose that after the Spirit of God has done His work in the sinner, it still remains for him to say whether he shall be regenerated or not, whether he shall believe or no. All who are recipients of His supernatural operations are regenerated, effectually converted, and actually believe. It is not that the Spirit imparts the capacity to believe and then waits for the individual to exercise his will to believe: no, He works in the elect "both to will and to do." (Phil. 2:13) I may tell a man that in the next room there is a lighted lamp, and he may not believe me, but let me bring it into the room where he is, so, that he sees the light for himself, and he is irresistibly persuaded. So a servant of God may tell a man that Christ is sufficient for the chief of sinners, and he believes not; but when Christ is "revealed in him" (Gal. 1:16) he cannot but trust Him. See 2 Cor. 4:6.

How perversely man reverses the order of God's truth. They urge dead sinners to come to Christ, supposing they have the power or will to do so. Whereas Christ has plainly and emphatically stated that "No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him." (John 6:44) "Coming to Christ" is the affections of the heart being drawn out towards Him, and how can a person love one he knows not? See John 4:10. Ah, it is the Spirit who must bring Christ to me, reveal Him in me before I can truly know Him. "Coming to Christ" is an inward and spiritual act, not an outward and natural one. Truly, "the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." (1 Cor. 2:14) We cannot so much as "see Christ" until we are born again. (John 3:3)

Saving grace is something more than an objective fact presented to us; it is a subjective operation wrought within us. As it is not by natural discernment that I discover my need of Christ, so it is not by my natural strength and will that I "come" to Him. There must be life and light (sight) before there can be motion. A babe has to be born, and have sight and strength, too, before it is able to "come" to its parent. Believing in Christ is a supernatural act, the product of supernatural power. One may, by means of grammatical phrases and scriptural propositions teach spiritual truth to another, but he cannot illumine his mind with respect thereto. He may tell a man that God is holy, but he cannot impart to him a consciousness that God is holy. He may tell him that sin is infinitely heinous, but he cannot beget in him a feeling or heart-realizatian that it is so. To those who were well acquainted with them outwardly, Christ said, "Ye neither know Me nor My Father." (John 8:19) A man may "know" the way of righteousness" (2 Pet. 2:21) theoretically, intellectually, but that is a vastly different matter (though very few are inwardly aware of it) from a spiritual experimental acquaintance with it. "We having the same Spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believe, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak." (2 Cor. 4:13) Here the Spirit of God is spoken of according to the work that He performs. "The title 'Spirit of faith' intimates that the Holy Spirit is the Author of faith; for all men have not faith; that is, it is not given to all and does not belong to all. (2 Thess. 3:2) The designation means that the procuring cause of faith is the Holy Spirit who produces this effect by an invisible call, an invitation which accompanies, according to the good pleasure of His will, the external proclamation of the Gospel. The faith, therefore, of which He is the Author, is not affected by the hearer's own strength, or by the hearer's own effectual will . . . The special operation of the Spirit inclines the sinner, previously disinclined, to receive the invitations of the Gospel; for it is He alone, acting as the Spirit of faith, that removes the enmity of the carnal mind to those doctrines of the cross which, but for this, would seem to him unnecessary, or foolish or offensive." (Prof. Smeaton)

Writing to the Philippian saints the apostle declared, "Unto you it is given . . . to believe on Him." (1:29) Faith is God's "gift" as Eph. 2:8,9 positively affirms. It is not a gift offered for man's acceptance, but actually conferred upon God's children, breathed into them. It in imparted to each of "God's elect" at His appointed time by the Holy Spirit. It is not produced by the creature's will but is "faith of the operation of God." (Col. 2:12) It is the "work" of the Spirit, by His supernatural action. The Holy Spirit given by Christ to this end, that each of those for whom He died should be brought to a saving knowledge of the truth therefore we are told "Who by Him (not by our wills) do believe in God." (1 Peter 1:21) In 1 Cor. 3:5 it is, said "by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man"; so in Eph. 6:23 it is declared, "Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ." The very degree and strength of our faith is determined solely by God: "think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith." (Rom.12:3) If by grace you are truly a "believer," let the reader give God the Spirit honor, glory, and praise for it.

SALVATION IS WHOLLY APPLIED
BY THE SPIRIT

"We are bound always to give thanks to God for you, brethren, beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth." (2 Thess. 2:13) The mission of the Spirit in the earth is to apply to God's elect the redemption proposed by God the Father and purchased by God the Son for them. The Holy Spirit is here to make good the souls of the heirs of glory the fruits of the travail of Christ's soul. This He does by means of the Gospel by the written and oral ministry of the Scripture, for the Word of God is the only instrument He employs or uses. The Word of God is "the word of life" (Phil. 2:16), but it only becomes such in the experience of the individual soul by the immediate operation and application of the Spirit of God. As Paul wrote to the Thessalonian saints, "For our Gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit." (1 Thess. 1:5) This is not to deny the efficacy of the Word itself, but it is to insist that the direct agency of the Spirit on the heart is absolutely necessary in order to the reception of the Word. The Word is a lamp unto our path, but there must be an opening of the eyes of our understandings by the Spirit before we can see its light.

The salvation of God's elect was purposed, planned, and provided by God the Father before the foundation of the world. It was procured and secured by the incarnation, obedience, death and resurrection of God the Son. It is made known, applied to and wrought in them by God the Spirit. Thus, "Salvation is of the Lord" (Jonah 2:9), and man has no part or hand in it at any point whatsoever. The child of God is not the earner but the recipient of it. Faith is not a condition which the elect sinner must perform in order to obtain salvation, but is the means and channel through which he personally enjoys the salvation of the Triune Jehovah.

[LivnForChrist]

Ah yes, the endlessly divisive Tongues argument... It usually seems that whatever side most people are on, their opinion for or against is always right and the opposite opinion is always wrong. I suspect by now, dear brother, you are well aware of this problem. Here's one way of looking at this issue; a gift, by nature, is freely given and freely received, right? Unlike an obligation, which is forced, for example. The Lord is under no obligation to force a gift on anyone, and nobody is under an obligation to do something they are genuinely uncomfortable with. Our God is full of righteousness, justice and love, correct? Therefore, with that preamble in place, I will again state that the man who led me to Christ has been given the Gift of evangelism, but he doesn't speak in Tongues, never has and never will. Robert doesn't speak in Tongues either, but I think it is clear enough to all that he's filled with the Holy Spirit and serves the Lord in spirit and in truth. I, however, do speak in Tongues. For me, it was a sign to remember the Lord by and a touchpoint to which I could and did return after 23 years backslidden. So if you do or if you do not speak in Tongues is pretty insignificant, in my opinion and the experience of devoted Christians whose walk with the Lord I trust.

I hope this brings you peace, Elijah, as Tongues is just a sign to some, not an obligation to all, such as repentance and believing in Jesus Christ.

Meg I absolutely love your answer. As you said, the Lord does not force gifts on anyone. None of the gifts of the Spirit are
necessary for salvation. I speak in tongues but I don't believe its necessary in order to be saved. I don't believe that my brothers
and sisters in Christ who don't have it are less than i am in any way. I don't feel special because of it. I tire of the arguments
about it and wish they would stop. I usually avoid tongues, gifts of the spirits, and all such threads like the plague for that reason.

[GlennO]

EM & Bobbi

Much stress can follow the topic of speaking an unlearned language

I hang on to this:

Rom 11:29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.


Regarding the spiritual gifts, This has never failed me...
Seek the Giver over the gifts.

Also, Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

[Elijah's Mantle]

That is a great one to hold fast to Glenno


After searching it out from scripture and the History of the early church it become very clear to me that we have indeed lost some valuable things along the way down through ages and time . Over time much of the church got so far away from the truth and the gifts that they eventually just created doctrines of unbelief claiming that it all ceased with Pentecost ,in which we know is obviously not so. Acts 2:17-18 tells us what will be poured out in these laast days and it is for us
when people are "cut to the heart" they will ask what must we do and the same answer provided then is the same answer provided for today Repent be Baptized and receive
As we are "all" more than aware relationship with God can not go on limiting God in spite of some doctrines . We will need all the benefits and to be equipped with God's good and perfect gifts


God Bless you GlennO for that word

I know God purges all hindrances far from me even some in which Ive just become moreover aware of and it is for the purpose in which God clearly spells out in scripture

God always desires the very best for us and surely and truly considering the times we are entering we will need all the gifts and equipment that God has for us
Jeremiah 31 is clear .


Its self evident to me from self inspection and searching out the matter that God does not make mistakes, what he does for us is he leads us up out of all the captivity and muddy pits we slip into along the way , clearing and making straight the way

I understand there is 2 types of "Gifts" and understand it is not written on the pages of the book per chance to be passed by, by any even , me, assuming it was only for those at Pentecost .

always will let the word of God speak to us even though we may be as those of the past "Cut to the heart" clearly it is for reasons in which God knows what he is doing , the good and perfect work he begins he will complete , he never leaves us half baked or ill equipped in any battle or what may come
Ive gained a clear perspective on the matter and God Bless each and every one of you precious beloved brothers and sisters of the Faith .

[GlennO]

EM - The A.W. Pink writing you offered was a good one. Generally I steer clear of those with a Calvinist bent, but I found it worth the afternoon to stay on the meat of it. I (re)learned that over a lifetime the great ones have had to listen to the Comforter!

Worthy Bro!