ECCLESIASTES

[ANY MINUTE]

Is anyone here well studied on this book of scripture? I'm not sure what to do with it or how to apply it to my over all theology as a New Testament believer.

I mostly study using a K.J. Scofield bible and he describes this book as inspired by God but the words of man. Also as being the best man can do under Law, with redemption not being in view. There has got to be more to it than all what man does is vanity doesn't there? Or is that the point being driven home?

Edit.. while writing this I just came across a note that says the word vanity in Ecclesiastes doesn't mean foolish pride but the emptiness in the final result of all life apart from God. To be born, to toil, to suffer, to experience some transitory joy, which is nothing in view of eternity,to leave it all, and to die.

That part above really helps in my understanding now (I wish I would have seen that first)

Any other thoughts or knowledge that might help me as I read through it again?

[Hannah]

Yep the book is an observation of the futility in worldliness and all man does on this earth without God.


Look at the writer's conclusion and work back through the book:-

ECC 12:13 Now all has been heard;
here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
for this is the whole duty of man.

ECC 12:14 For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing,
whether it is good or evil.

[Meg]

I studied it a year or 2 back. You just gave me something to do, so I'll get my Bible and see what margin notes I have there and post something here in a bit.

[Meg]

There is a lot of various material here covering several topics. Where do you want to start? I have margin notes all over the place, and would love to go back over this material. In a nutshell, I think Solomon was trying to hand down what God showed him, in contrast to what man in the flesh thought was right. I used to be totally intimidated by Ecclesiastes, but once I finally matured enough to take it on, I loved it.

[ANY MINUTE]

Thanks Hannah, After reading the study note I came across and with those last two verses it started to make more sense.

Meg, Thank you also. I will go back and re-read over the next couple of days with a new perspective. I didn't take notes but there were a few things that really caught my attention (all of it did, but most left me wondering what was being conveyed because I don't think or speak like the writer).

Off hand, I remember Ecclesiastes 7:20 which immediately reminded me of Romans 3:23 which is very familiar to me.
I admit I am not as well versed in the Old Testament as I should be (some would say not in the New either) but as I grow and learn more, I'm seeing the need to spend more time studying the Old Testament also to get a better understanding of the New.

I'm open to anything you would like to share from your studies. Thank You!

[mattfivefour]

Essentially the Book of Ecclesiastes (or the "Preacher") accurately lays out the truth about life as man knows it. Everything comes and goes in circles, repeating itself over and over—as nature, so history. There is no real point to life because nothing we build can go with us to the grave and what we leave behind others enjoy and allow to decay. And even if what we build survives, we ourselves certainly can receive no lasting satisfaction or benefit from it.

There is no absolute security in life, nor is there any satisfaction in the flesh. All things are, as the KJV translates it: "vanity". Today we would use a different word to translate the Hebrew הָ֫בֶל (hebel, pronouced HEH-bel). Rather than "vanity" we would say "futility" or "emptiness" or some like word. And that is how the writer begins the book: "Futility of futilities!" Or more as we would say it today: "Futility! All is futility!". This is his conclusion after searching every possible avenue that man can conceive might lead toward satisfaction and lasting purpose. Not one pursuit or effort of man, he demonstrates, provides true, permanent satisfaction. So, as I said, the book is an accurate summary of life on earth.

Now, that being the case, why is this book in the Bible? What was God's purpose? Where is its eternal value? God placed it in His Word because it shows that only with Him does life have any purpose. In his wisdom which he received from God, Solomon says the upshot of all of his pursuit of the various avenues of satisfaction has led him to realize the truth that life without God is pointless. Thus, after making his case, Solomon concludes everything he has written by saying: "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man." (Eccesiastes 12:13) And why is this important? Because this is the only thing with eternal gain... or loss. As Solomon tells us in his last word, we should fear God and keep His commandments "because God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good or whether it be evil." (Eccesiastes 12:14)

This, then, is the answer to your original quandary: "I'm not sure what to do with it or how to apply it to my over all theology as a New Testament believer." The application is that you live your life not in the pursuit of worldly goals but in reverence to God, in obedience to His Word, and in faithfulness to His service. As Jesus said, "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness." (Matthew 6:33) And as Paul counseled Timothy, "Bodily discipline is only of little profit, but godliness is profitable for all things, since it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come." (1 Timothy 4:8)

I pray this helps.

[SteveJM]

This, then, is the answer to your original quandary: "I'm not sure what to do with it or how to apply it to my over all theology as a New Testament believer." The application is that you live your life not in the pursuit of worldly goals but in reverence to God, in obedience to His Word, and in faithfulness to His service. As Jesus said, "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness." (Matthew 6:33) And as Paul counseled Timothy, "Bodily discipline is only of little profit, but godliness is profitable for all things, since it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come." (1 Timothy 4:8)

I pray this helps.

Great answer, Mattfivefour. I'm thankful the question was asked. It's always good to be reminded of these truths.

[ANY MINUTE]

Thank You, Mattfivefour. That was very helpful and thanks for taking the time to help me and maybe others with this.

My first few tries through the Old Testament were, and still are at times, a struggle. I was taught incorrectly to replace the who with yourself, which leads to all kinds of problems such as Replacement theology.

Now that I am much more comfortable and secure in who we are in Christ in this dispensation, I am trying to include more Old Testament studying in with my other studies. I've been through most, but in bits while cross referencing other scripture or reading about specific topics.

I decided not to read any commentaries on this book to see what I would come away first with on my own, with the Holy Spirit's guidance of course. I should have researched the term vanity when it first started gnawing at me. Sharing together with my wife this morning, we both realized it meant futility, without God. That was the key for me, thanks to Hannah, Meg, and yourself. I love how God uses fellow believers to help bring confimation to what He is teaching in His Word, so again Thank You!

Now back to reading I go......







thanks for fixing my spelling, I woke up with it "gnawing" at me, lol

[mattfivefour]

I am glad you recognize the error of Replacement Theology. It is interesting that not only does Paul clearly refute the doctrine in Romans 11 but God, in the Old Testament, clearly speaks of the temporary setting aside of Israel; for He says, "I will bring them back ... and they shall be as though I had not cast them off."

Zechariah 10:6 KJV "And I will strengthen the house of Judah, and I will save the house of Joseph, and I will bring them again to place them; for I have mercy upon them: and they shall be as though I had not cast them off: for I am the LORD their God, and will hear them."

Zechariah 10:6 NASB "I will strengthen the house of Judah, and I will save the house of Joseph, and I will bring them back, because I have had compassion on them; and they will be as though I had not rejected them, for I am the LORD their God and I will answer them."

This is said during the prophecy given Zechariah in chapters 9 and 10 regarding the end of the Tribulation and the physical return of Christ to earth. How much clearer could God's Word be?

[ANY MINUTE]

This is said during the prophecy given Zechariah in chapters 9 and 10 regarding the end of the Tribulation and the physical return of Christ to earth. How much clearer could God's Word be?

It's very clear to me. ^^I know that didn't require an answer, but it is very clear when you let God speak (through His Word) and not filtered through men who like to twist, wrench, and pervert it.

Since finding this site and R.R. about two years ago, I've learned much by reading the wealth of info. posted on this topic. Before then, I knew something wasn't right but I knew nothing of the terminology or how deeply rooted it was through out the church. My former church pastor would speak out aginst R/T but in private conversations would say the Church is spiritual Israel. I don't think he understood and my attempts to explain fell on deaf ears I think.

[Meg]

Thank You, Mattfivefour. That was very helpful and thanks for taking the time to help me and maybe others with this.

My first few tries through the Old Testament were, and still are at times, a struggle. I was taught incorrectly to replace the who with yourself, which leads to all kinds of problems such as Replacement theology.

Now that I am much more comfortable and secure in who we are in Christ in this dispensation, I am trying to include more Old Testament studying in with my other studies. I've been through most, but in bits while cross referencing other scripture or reading about specific topics.

I decided not to read any commentaries on this book to see what I would come away first with on my own, with the Holy Spirit's guidance of course. I should have researched the term vanity when it first started gnawing at me. Sharing together with my wife this morning, we both realized it meant futility, without God. That was the key for me, thanks to Hannah, Meg, and yourself. I love how God uses fellow believers to help bring confimation to what He is teaching in His Word, so again Thank You!

Now back to reading I go......

Cool! Glad we could help!