Predestination, providence, and free will..

[Chris]

Predestination and Sanctification | GraceThruFaith

Predestination and Sanctification

Q. I have been taught that predestination, mentioned in Romans 8:29, has to do with our sanctification, i.e. that our lives would show forth Christ, the fruit of the Spirit. Could you tell me what you would teach about this?

A. Romans 8:29-30 says,

For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

The Greek word translated predestined means to be appointed. It’s similar to a reservation that can’t be canceled. God’s foreknowledge that we would choose Him caused Him to reserve a place for us in His Kingdom. These two things happened before Adam was created.

Then at the proper time in our life He called us to do what He already knew we would do, and when we did He justified us, meaning He applied the blood of Jesus to our sins and washed us clean. This happened when we asked Him to save us. At the resurrection/rapture He will glorify us. That’s when we will be conformed to the image of His son.

To be sanctified is to be set apart, or made holy. Synonyms are consecration and purification. When we became born again, we were no longer intended for profane or common use, but were set apart by God for a holy purpose. Throughout the New Testament we’re admonished to follow the prompting of the Holy Spirit and avoid allowing ourselves to be used in a way that’s inconsistent with this purpose. When we fail in that, confessing our sins will bring immediate forgiveness and purification, restoring us to sanctification (1 John 1:9).

As you can see predestination and sanctification are not the same.

[Chris]

Challenging The Calvinist View | GraceThruFaith

Challenging The Calvinist View

Q. Re: Calvinism. I’ve been talking to someone who uses verses like Ephesians 1:4 to suggest that we’ve been chosen and that’s that. The choice has already been made and we just have to be thankful we were chosen and not among those ‘fitted for destruction’. Any thoughts on this?

A. Paul’s comment in Ephesians 1:4 appears to support predestination until you read Romans 8:29-30 where he laid out the entire process. There we discover that God predestined those He foreknew. What this means is that God confirmed a place for us in His Kingdom, because He looked down through time and knew in advance that we would ask for His salvation. At the appropriate time in our life, He called us to make the decision He had already seen us make and when we did He justified us by crediting the death of Jesus as payment for our sins. The remaining step, glorification, will take place at the rapture/resurrection.

To accept the Calvinist view of Ephesians 1:4 you have to believe the Holy Spirit led Paul to contradict his earlier statement from Romans 8:29-30. But the Bible, being the Word of God cannot contradict itself, and there are several passages that confirm that Paul was not doing this. In John 3:16 Jesus said, “Whosoever believes will not perish,” implying anyone can choose to believe. In John 6:28-29 Jesus said belief in the Son is the only work God requires of us. How can God require something we can’t do? In Matt. 7:7-8 He said everyone who asks receives, etc and in Romans 10:13 Paul wrote, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” These are just some of the Bible’s statements supporting man’s power of choice. They all have to be re-interpreted in some way to fit into the Calvinist model.

[Chris]

Predestination Or Free Will? | GraceThruFaith

Predestination Or Free Will?

I know the Lord is all knowing and knows who will come to him and who will not. But I am having a very difficult time thinking that the Lord has predetermined who will be saved and who will not. I truly believe that the Lord is love and he would not create some simply for them to go to hell.

Q. I am currently involved in a Christian chat room whereby debating and fellowship occur. One of the debates that comes up frequently is whether man has free will when it comes to choosing our Lord. Many feel that it is predetermined and those that will be saved are the ‘elected’.

I know the Lord is all knowing and knows who will come to him and who will not. But I am having a very difficult time thinking that the Lord has predetermined who will be saved and who will not. I truly believe that the Lord is love and he would not create some simply for them to go to hell.

Can you clear this up for me? Do we have free will or is there predestination? Thank you.

A. This question can be put to rest with a careful reading of the best known verse in the Bible. “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that whosoever believes will not perish but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16) The word “whosoever” means that any one who chooses to can believe and be saved.

Romans 10:13 also tells us that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. There are several other verses I could cite but you get the idea. Salvation is the gift of God offered freely to all who will receive and accept it.

In Matt. 7:7-8 the Lord said, “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.” He was talking about our salvation. It really sounds like it’s our decision, doesn’t it?

In order to deny this you have to put words in the Lord’s mouth that He never spoke.

[micah719]

Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Mat 7:9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
Mat 7:10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
Mat 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Wow, The Lord is actually speaking of The Father's children....perhaps Mr Chambers thinks all men are God's children, which also comes across in this post:

In order to accept it you have to believe that God created some of His children specifically to fuel the fires of hell.

That's the last misrepresentation I'll put up with. If you and the likes of the twister Chambers cannot discuss rationally and honestly, without the rudeness of straw men like this, it is a waste of time. NO calvinist would ever speak as Chambers accuses.

[mattfivefour]

No, they do not speak that way as to do so would be to expose the fallacy of their position. Instead they slide around the contradictions to their position with illogic. Mr. Kelley (not Chambers, but that is immaterial) has merely said openly what they will not. Revealing the truth is not a straw man.

But this disputation has gone on long enough. The scriptural points have been made. To continue would be to permit what is now a vain disputation. to discuss the issue is fine; but what has occurred rather is a threat to our Christian witness. Much of this "discussion" reads like a fleshly, worldly dispute.

This thread is closed.

[Chris]

Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Mat 7:9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
Mat 7:10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
Mat 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Wow, The Lord is actually speaking of The Father's children....perhaps Mr Chambers thinks all men are God's children, which also comes across in this post:



That's the last misrepresentation I'll put up with. If you and the likes of the twister Chambers cannot discuss rationally and honestly, without the rudeness of straw men like this, it is a waste of time. NO calvinist would ever speak as Chambers accuses.

That's actually Jack Kelley, not Joseph Chambers. But anyway...no big deal there.

However, the quote is actually what Calvinism teaches when you look at the big picture. If you weren't "predestined" to be saved, then you were just made to live a life and then be straw for the fires of hell afterwards. The Bible says most will NOT be saved, it is not because God only wanted a few people saved and didn't care about the rest, it's that the sad fact is that most do NOT want to be saved and have no love for God. That is sad, but it all boils down to "free will".

For example, God knew yesterday and before that I would choose to go to McDonalds today for lunch. I could have gone to Burger King or Taco Bell, but I CHOOSE to go to McDonalds. And so I ate a McRib for lunch today. The same thing goes for salvation, God knows ahead of time who will choose salvation and get saved, but he's does make them decide to say no, they say no themselves. It's their choice. Calvinism is exactly like Jack explained, it is the belief that a few people were "special" and the rest were just scraps of clay that go back to the fire.

I have spent a lot of time debating this at RR with folks and a lot of times "pride and arrogance" have caused people to embrace Calvinism as they see themselves "special" and everyone else as "just kindling for the fires of Hell". Of course, there are lots of Calvinists who I believe just don't understand what they say they believe. That's why I posted the link on predestination and wanted folks to read some of the articles. Taken in CONTEXT we can understand the scriptures and they do not support either Calvinism or Arminianism. That's why we are not a Calvinism or Arminianism board or website. We just go by the Bible.