Stoning in the Old Testament

[Kris762]

I'm currently reading through the Old Testament and am confused by the mention of "stoning" individuals to death for various evil acts.

I mean we sit here and are horrified when we observe on the news etc Muslims stoning people to death, yet in our Old Testament it was condoned and was one of the laws passed down from our God to the Jews. The mention of stoning guilty people to death throughout the Old Testament is rather numerous which surprises me.

Could someone please help me to understand why stoning people to death in our Bible was a lawful punishment for those who had committed serious sins???

I do not question the Lord, I fully accept he has his reasons for the act of stoning the guilty, I am just trying to understand.

[micah719]

It is a public punishment by the community. The awfulness of it is a deterrent for would-be criminals. As intended and decreed it was good, but as in all things sinful fallen man debased the practise.

The muslims go wrong because they are not the people it was addressed to, it was given to the Jews. The islamics also go wrong because they do not have or practise the Law, something Mohamed the Borrower forgot to steal, and which The Lord never gave them.

Look up the subject of the hailstones which The Lord has reserved for the day of war. He stones the transgressors Himself, as He did to Canaan long ago, and will do to the a-c's people in the GT.

Look at the case of the adulterous woman....The Lord did not pardon her crime, or repeal the sentence, in fact He confirmed it. He gave conditions for the executioners that they could not in pure conscience carry out. She called Him Lord, so in effect He died for her sin and both knew it at the time. The fact He spared her temporal life shows His compassion and grace without compromising justice, and also His infinite wisdom. Dr Arnold Fruchtenbaum goes into detail about it in one of his books...unfortunately I only have it in German. My copy is called "Das Leben des Messias", in English it would be "The Life of the Messiah".

[Kris762]

Thanks! Still seems harsh but I was kind of thinking along the lines of your answer...I guess the Lord was determined not to tolerate any sin whatsoever, and to keep his people pure of heart hence the harsh penalty.

[micah719]

"Rod of iron" in the Millenium means just that...things will be done His way, no arguments, no dialogueing to consensus, no agreeing to disagree. Either you agree and obey or you die (speaking of the Millenium dwellers, of which hopefully none on this forum will be there as mortal flesh). That might seem harsh too but don't forget the devil and his pals are locked up the whole time so there's no blaming anyone else. Also, there'll be lots of glorified immortal children of God running about keeping things in line. No politics, no socialism, no feudalism. No ever-changing laws that bend for a fee or a favour, no need for OWS, though at the end there is something like that.

[Robert]

I'm currently reading through the Old Testament and am confused by the mention of "stoning" individuals to death for various evil acts.

I mean we sit here and are horrified when we observe on the news etc Muslims stoning people to death, yet in our Old Testament it was condoned and was one of the laws passed down from our God to the Jews. The mention of stoning guilty people to death throughout the Old Testament is rather numerous which surprises me.

Could someone please help me to understand why stoning people to death in our Bible was a lawful punishment for those who had committed serious sins???

I do not question the Lord, I fully accept he has his reasons for the act of stoning the guilty, I am just trying to understand.

It does look harsh at first glance, but keep in mind that Israel was the nation through whom God was to bring the Messiah, and they were to be a light to the world. For that reason, the Lord set down harsh punishments for sin; He had to protect them from the influence of the nations around them, and even then, Israel made bad mistakes. God had to show them how serious sin was and what the consequences of it were, for their sakes.

Keep in mind: God is by no means a sadist. He doesn't like punishing anyone any more than any parent would. But for all the harshness of stoning, the consequences of no punishment would have been far worse.

[FaithInChrist]

If Isrealites had followed God's word and actually killed everybody in the lands they were directed to take, I wonder how much less turmoil there would be in the Middle East right now. However, God knew they wouldn't follow His law completely and so prophecy of today was fulfilled way back then, by their inability to follow God's commands completely.

[rae_ekaf]

If Isrealites had followed God's word and actually killed everybody in the lands they were directed to take, I wonder how much less turmoil there would be in the Middle East right now. However, God knew they wouldn't follow His law completely and so prophecy of today was fulfilled way back then, by their inability to follow God's commands completely.

Exactly who were the people that the Israelites were commanded to kill? And does the new testament carry on these commands? Do these same people still exist? What does Galatians 3:16 mean?

[micah719]

Four hundred years of grace (in addition to whatever went before):
Gen 15:13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
Gen 15:14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
Gen 15:15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
Gen 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

It was The Lord's fight, Israel had a minor part in it:
Exo 34:5 And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.
Exo 34:6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
Exo 34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
Exo 34:8 And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped.
Exo 34:9 And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O Lord, let my Lord, I pray thee, go among us; for it is a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.
Exo 34:10 And he said, Behold, I make a covenant: before all thy people I will do marvels, such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation: and all the people among which thou art shall see the work of the LORD: for it is a terrible thing that I will do with thee.
Exo 34:11 Observe thou that which I command thee this day: behold, I drive out before thee the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite.
Exo 34:12 Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee:
Exo 34:13 But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves:
Exo 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
Exo 34:15 Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice;
Exo 34:16 And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods.

And these are the rules of engagement....nice and logical and clear:
Deu 20:1 When thou goest out to battle against thine enemies, and seest horses, and chariots, and a people more than thou, be not afraid of them: for the LORD thy God is with thee, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
Deu 20:2 And it shall be, when ye are come nigh unto the battle, that the priest shall approach and speak unto the people,
Deu 20:3 And shall say unto them, Hear, O Israel, ye approach this day unto battle against your enemies: let not your hearts faint, fear not, and do not tremble, neither be ye terrified because of them;
Deu 20:4 For the LORD your God is he that goeth with you, to fight for you against your enemies, to save you.
Deu 20:5 And the officers shall speak unto the people, saying, What man is there that hath built a new house, and hath not dedicated it? let him go and return to his house, lest he die in the battle, and another man dedicate it.
Deu 20:6 And what man is he that hath planted a vineyard, and hath not yet eaten of it? let him also go and return unto his house, lest he die in the battle, and another man eat of it.
Deu 20:7 And what man is there that hath betrothed a wife, and hath not taken her? let him go and return unto his house, lest he die in the battle, and another man take her.
Deu 20:8 And the officers shall speak further unto the people, and they shall say, What man is there that is fearful and fainthearted? let him go and return unto his house, lest his brethren's heart faint as well as his heart.
Deu 20:9 And it shall be, when the officers have made an end of speaking unto the people, that they shall make captains of the armies to lead the people.
Deu 20:10 When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.
Deu 20:11 And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee.
Deu 20:12 And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it:
Deu 20:13 And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:
Deu 20:14 But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.
Deu 20:15 Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations.
Deu 20:16 But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
Deu 20:17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:
Deu 20:18 That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the LORD your God.
Deu 20:19 When thou shalt besiege a city a long time, in making war against it to take it, thou shalt not destroy the trees thereof by forcing an axe against them: for thou mayest eat of them, and thou shalt not cut them down (for the tree of the field is man's life) to employ them in the siege:
Deu 20:20 Only the trees which thou knowest that they be not trees for meat, thou shalt destroy and cut them down; and thou shalt build bulwarks against the city that maketh war with thee, until it be subdued.

Ans Galatians 3:16 is explained in the context of the whole chapter:
Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Gal 3:4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Gal 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Gal 3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The Lord's word speaks for itself....we just have to look.

[mattfivefour]

Exactly who were the people that the Israelites were commanded to kill? And does the new testament carry on these commands? Do these same people still exist? What does Galatians 3:16 mean?

1) They were the people who inhabited the land that God gave to Israel.
2) No, the commands are not carried into the New Testament.
3) Possibly their descendants might in some form. But when was the last time you met an Ammorite or a Midianite or a Jebusite or an Amelakite or a Canaanite? As a people they have disappeared from the planet. Only Israel remains.
4) You need to use Scripture to explain Scripture. Galatians 3:16 would, on the surface, makes it seem as if the promises were only to Abraham and Christ. But this cannot be the correct interpretation because Romans 15:8 says, "Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers." Indeed the promises were made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. So all that sprang from their loins are inheritors of the promises made by God. The chief of those promises was that Christ would come from that line. Nevertheless there were earthly promises and those have not been done away with. Nor will they be. Israel will inherit on this earth as it shows in the Prophets, including the Revelation of Jesus Christ given to John.

But God has given great promises as well to them that accept Christ; indeed He has reserved in Heaven an eternal inheritance for us. (Ephesians 1:18; 1 Peter 1:3-4) Christians (be they Jew or Gentile) inherit those promises in Christ. (Ephesians 1:11; Colossians 3:24) But these promises which are in Christ are NOT the promises given to Israel as a nation. Too many people confuse the two., It is very important when studying Scripture to determine where it is referring to the Church and where it is referring to Israel.

[rae_ekaf]

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The Lord's word speaks for itself....we just have to look.

Yes, Micah, the Lord's word does indeed speak for itself.

[dave-o]

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The Lord's word speaks for itself....we just have to look.

Yes, Micah, the Lord's word does indeed speak for itself.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think those verses mean?

[mattfivefour]

Yes, I am curious too.

[Robert]

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The Lord's word speaks for itself....we just have to look.

Yes, Micah, the Lord's word does indeed speak for itself.

So, if we take that literally, to mean that there are no Jews, does that also mean we are all literally eunuchs as well?

[myinnuendo999]

So, if we take that literally, to mean that there are no Jews, does that also mean we are all literally eunuchs as well?

[mattfivefour]

Good point, Robert. If we choose to literally interpret that we are neither male nor female then we are what you stated. But, of course, that is not the meaning of what Paul is saying. Nor do his words mean that there are no longer any Jews. It simply means that—regardless of what we WERE— in CHRIST we are something new: neither Jew nor Gentile, but "a new creature". Those outside of Christ continue as Jew and Gentile.

[rae_ekaf]

Just out of curiosity, what do you think those verses mean?

It means: And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

That what it means, plain and simple. It doesn't get any simpler.

[mattfivefour]

Which promise?

[Elijah's Mantle]

would make for a good study to study it
I would ask the same question

which promise ?

[Elijah's Mantle]

Jesus Christ is Abraham's seed and my union with Jesus Christ would actually make me Abraham's seed as well which makes me a heir according to the promise and what promise ? is that ? ..............
heirs of God and Joint heirs with Jesus Christ according to Romans 8:17

many read those verses but do not grasp fully all that it means .

""For you have not received the spirit of bondage """again to fear
but you have received the spirit of adoption

And if children then heirs heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ if so be
that we suffer with him

that does not say merely to suffer ,it is specific in word saying suffer with him Jesus Christ suffered the cross the place where all the benefits we could receive ""IN CHRIST"" was made possible his suffering every one is what makes it all possible for us his suffering on the cross AND JESUS CHRIST HAS BEEN GLORIFIED and we shall be made glorified
again again again ""ALL" made possible by Jesus Christ our savior ad Lord

for I reckon that the suffering of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which ""SHALL" be revealed in us

and in those next verses you read some things stated so amazing
complex but simple but so so amazing it has a specific meaning and uses words accordingly and means a great deal because there in we can understand what all creatures problem is and the cure or remedy for the problem and THUS WE CAN understand why ? Paul guided by the Holy spirit worded it as he did so

amazing what is in next verses

[Elijah's Mantle]

now read on to Revelations
and see what it says the promise is given to those who over come
and there is ONE way only for any to over come
you must be ""In Christ" because Jesus Christ over come ALL bondage's ad satisfied all demands on the cross
Being in Christ takes on a meaning SO AMAZING
what Grace
what Great Grace
what Love
what Eternal Love
None compares to Jesus Christ he was and IS literally SAVIOR AND LORD KING AND COMPANION that goes all the way with us even should we die for our faith makes the heart beat a little stronger and a living well bubble over we have a GREAT BIG GOD EVERY BODY