Matthew 24 question

[twerpv]

In Matthew 24:10, Jesus talks about "many turning away from the faith...." Can I take that as they were never saved in the first place? Jesus can't be talking about Christians, correct?

[mattfivefour]

When taking all scriptures together, I believe it is referring to those who may have set out to follow Christ but their hearts were never changed. They had a head knowledge but not a heart one which occurs when one is truly born again. The parable of the sower and the seed speaks of this ... for those who are truly His He will never let go. Not all seed falls on good ground, prepared ground.

But also we can find a clue to the answer to your question in Zephaniah.

Zephaniah 1:1-7 says:

1 The word of the LORD which came to Zephaniah son of Cushi, son of Gedaliah, son of Amariah, son of Hezekiah, in the days of Josiah son of Amon, king of Judah:

2 “I will completely remove all things from the face of the earth,” declares the LORD. 3 "I will remove man and beast; I will remove the birds of the sky and the fish of the sea, and the ruins along with the wicked; and I will cut off man from the face of the earth,” declares the LORD. 4 “So I will stretch out My hand against Judah and against all the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And I will cut off the remnant of Baal from this place, and the names of the idolatrous priests along with the priests. 5 And those who bow down on the housetops to the host of heaven, and those who bow down and swear to the LORD and yet swear by Milcom, 6 and those who have turned back from following the LORD, and those who have not sought the LORD or inquired of Him.”

7 Be silent before the Lord GOD! For the day of the LORD is near, for the LORD has prepared a sacrifice, He has consecrated His guests.

Notice verse 6. It reveals that those who will be consumed by the Lord on His great and coming Day include those who have turned back from following Him. In fact the verse makes no differentiation between those who turn back and those who never sought God in the first place! Those who turn back from following God are counted as those who never knew Him. This would seem to indicate that, like those who have refused to seek the Lord, those who turn back have not had a repentant—and thus a changed—heart.

Further verse 7 tells us that God has consecrated those whom He has invited, those who are His guests. So none that are consecrated by Him will be lost.

Thus while no true Christian will ever walk away from the faith as expressed in Matthew 24:10, some who claim to be Christians and dwelt in our midst but were never truly inwardly consecrated to Him may do just that.

Does this help?

Matt

[twerpv]

Thanks Matt. It does help, although it is disconcerting. I write that because I wonder how many of my loved ones that say they are Christian have truly changed hearts. Clearly, I'm not talking about living perfect lives, just the heart change, which we can't really know. I assume my heart has been changed.

[mattfivefour]

Bro, all you can do with relatives who claim to be Christians but whose lives may not give evidence of any change is to pray for them, and let them see Christ in you. THey will begin to hunger for what you have. And you can gently challenge them from time to time with a quiet, loving sharing of what God's Word says about obedience and discipleship. The Holy Spirit will lead you when He gives you the opportunity to speak following your own prayers for them. Beyond that, trust in God. He loves them more than you do!

[Meg]

Bro, all you can do with relatives who claim to be Christians but whose lives may not give evidence of any change is to pray for them, and let them see Christ in you. THey will begin to hunger for what you have. And you can gently challenge them from time to time with a quiet, loving sharing of what God's Word says about obedience and discipleship. The Holy Spirit will lead you when He gives you the opportunity to speak following your own prayers for them. Beyond that, trust in God. He loves them more than you do!

I strongly agree with Matt on this. One thing the church really needs are people quietly demonstrating what it really means to walk in the Holy Spirit, ie show your faith in how you live. It may seem like people around you don't notice, but trust me, they do. Also, pray for them. Prayer does work, slowly sometimes, immediately others, but prayer does indeed have an effect on those we pray for.

[GlennO]

twerpv

Re: Matthew 24 question
Thanks Matt. It does help, although it is disconcerting. I write that because I wonder how many of my loved ones that say they are Christian have truly changed hearts. Clearly, I'm not talking about living perfect lives, just the heart change, which we can't really know. I assume my heart has been changed.

twerpv -

I have become more convinced of the validity of the OSAS doctrine. I have found that the parable of the wedding feast in Matt 22 is instructive. I've been studying in more depth concerning the Jewish wedding feast customs. At verse 2 the King gives a wedding feast for his son. At verse 11 the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man without proper garmets (by custom, the father of the groom would have provided proper attire for the guests). This example (and many others) leads me the conviction that our Great God and King supplies all we require to enter the Kingdom.

[GlennO]

Matt said (concerning family members):

Beyond that, trust in God. He loves them more than you do!

(Rev 21:4) And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.