Some Genesis Questions - if you have a moment

[twerpv]

So the last couple nights, I have been reading with my 11yr. old daughter out of Genesis. Some Questions:

1. Why was Cain's offering not looked on with favor by the Lord?
2. Where did Cain's wife come from? His sister?
3. Genesis 4:23-24. What is that all about?
4. Genesis 9: 20-27. Why is Ham in trouble for Noah getting drunk?


There is a whole lot more I don't understand but these were questions that came up. I like to be able to read with and walk through the bible with my kids but I had to just say, Um, yeah, I don't know about all that.
Thanks for anyone that can help.

[Meg]

These are my best answers. Hopefully someone like Matt, for example, will do better, but here we go...

So the last couple nights, I have been reading with my 11yr. old daughter out of Genesis. Some Questions:

1. Why was Cain's offering not looked on with favor by the Lord?

Scripture doesn't say, so we don't really know. As far as I know, there is no other account of this matter anywhere, so we have no idea. So rather than worry about why Cain's sacrifice wasn't accepted, let us consider the conversation that God had with Cain, as this is a very important Scripture:

Genesis 4:6-7

6 Then the LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

2. Where did Cain's wife come from? His sister?

Scripture doesn't say, so we don't really know. As far as I know, there is no other account of this matter anywhere, so we have no idea. (sorry, thats my best answer )

3. Genesis 4:23-24. What is that all about?

I apologize, I have no idea. Robert? Matt?

4. Genesis 9: 20-27. Why is Ham in trouble for Noah getting drunk?

Ham wasn't in trouble for Noah's being drunk, Noah did that to himself and frankly I can't say I blame him! What Ham was in trouble for was disrespecting his father.

I hope this helps some until the stronger scholars can catch up with this thread.

[seank6]

So the last couple nights, I have been reading with my 11yr. old daughter out of Genesis. Some Questions:

1. Why was Cain's offering not looked on with favor by the Lord?
2. Where did Cain's wife come from? His sister?
3. Genesis 4:23-24. What is that all about?
4. Genesis 9: 20-27. Why is Ham in trouble for Noah getting drunk?


There is a whole lot more I don't understand but these were questions that came up. I like to be able to read with and walk through the bible with my kids but I had to just say, Um, yeah, I don't know about all that.
Thanks for anyone that can help.

1>imho because it was because Abel's sacrifice was a blood sacrifice foreshadowing jewish laws and eventually His own sacrifice.
2>yeah probably cause the population had to spread somehow.
3> im thinking he was in fear of judgement from God
4>cause he saw his fathers nakedness and instead of honoring him and covering him up he went and told his brothers.

[Robert]

So the last couple nights, I have been reading with my 11yr. old daughter out of Genesis. Some Questions:

1. Why was Cain's offering not looked on with favor by the Lord?
2. Where did Cain's wife come from? His sister?
3. Genesis 4:23-24. What is that all about?
4. Genesis 9: 20-27. Why is Ham in trouble for Noah getting drunk?


There is a whole lot more I don't understand but these were questions that came up. I like to be able to read with and walk through the bible with my kids but I had to just say, Um, yeah, I don't know about all that.
Thanks for anyone that can help.

1) Scripture does not say specifically, but from what we know of the Lord, if you do not come to God as he asks you to, he is not obligated to accept your offerings (See Luke 14:6 for an example). Either Cain didn't bring his best, or he brought vegetable instead of a lamb as Abel did; in either case, Cain gave God less than his whole heart, and God wasn't fooled. Abel, on the other hand, thought enough of God to bring his best lamb and offer it to the Lord. That's my take on this one.

2) Cain, be necessity, did marry a relative. But keep in mind that Adam and Eve had many children, and they had many children as well. And we don't know how long after the fall that Cain killed Abel, though I suspect it must have been at least 15-20 years later. Scripture also doesn't say how long afterwards that he took a wife, but I'm thinking that since there are people living in other areas of the world, that Cain got married quite some time after he killed Able. That would mean he married a cousin that was removed a few times.

3) Let's take a look at scripture:

"Lamech said to his wives, “Adah and Zillah, Listen to my voice, You wives of Lamech, Give heed to my speech, For I have killed a man for wounding me; And a boy for striking me; If Cain is avenged sevenfold, Then Lamech seventy-sevenfold." (Genesis 4:23-24, NASB)

First off: we see he has TWO wives. This violates God's edict previously that A man and A woman would be one flesh, NOT a man and TWO women. Second, he barks at them as if they were servants rather than his beloved wives; not exactly the way God wants men to treat women. Third, he's boasting about killing those that had tried to wound him; self defense is one thing, but why the need to boast? Finally, he is saying that if god would avenge Cain sevenfold, than He would avenge Lamech far more. The picture we have here is of an angry man proclaiming to his wives that he was justified for what he did and that God would look favorably upon it. This echoes in my mind the last verse in the book of Judges:

"In those days there was no king in Israel; everyone did what was right in his own eyes" (Judges 21:25, NASB)

We note later in Genesis:

"Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart." (Genesis 6:5-6, NASB)

What I think we are seeing here is the foreshadowing of man's wicked heart as he began to fill the earth for the first time, something that would come to full fruition generations later.

4) This one has gotten me as well. I have a theory, but I need to pray and gain some insight on it.

[micah719]

1. Adam and Eve's attempt to cover their nakedness with leaves....hiding sin and substituting a manmade covering instead of The Lord's glory. The Lord slew animals and provided a covering until the problem would be solved at the Cross. The Sacrifices were memorials in advance...the priests slaying the offerings and sprinkling the blood on the mercy seat. The cherubs and The Lord could then not see the broken Law tablets in the Ark. This did not deal with sin but it served as a token pointing to The Blood which was to be shed. In the millenium there will once again be Sacrifices, this time pointing back at what The Lord achieved on The Cross, as a testimony to the flesh & blood millenium people that also must choose The Lamb, or not. Cain offered the fruit of his labour from the cursed earth, whereas Abel offered the firstfruit of his flock (they didn't eat meat in those days, not till after the Flood) which can only be a gift from The Lord. In effect, Cain was the inventor of religion, the idea that man can save and justify himself. In other words, the first pagan, the first antiChristian man. He also was the first human murderer. Righteous Abel was counted as the first of the martyrs.

Jude 1:10-12
10 But these men revile (scoff and sneer at) anything they do not happen to be acquainted with and do not understand; and whatever they do understand physically [that which they know by mere instinct], like irrational beasts--by these they corrupt themselves and are destroyed (perish).
11 Woe to them! For they have run riotously in the way of Cain, and have abandoned themselves for the sake of gain [it offers them, following] the error of Balaam, and have perished in rebellion [like that] of Korah!
12 These are hidden reefs (elements of danger) in your love feasts, where they boldly feast sumptuously [carousing together in your midst], without scruples providing for themselves [alone]. They are clouds without water, swept along by the winds; trees, without fruit at the late autumn gathering time--twice (doubly) dead, [lifeless and] plucked up by the roots;

1 John 3:11-13
11 For this is the message (the announcement) which you have heard from the first, that we should love one another,
12 [And] not be like Cain who [took his nature and got his motivation] from the evil one and slew his brother. And why did he slay him? Because his deeds (activities, works) were wicked and malicious and his brother's were righteous (virtuous).
13 Do not be surprised and wonder, brethren, that the world detests and pursues you with hatred.


2. Cain married a relative...probably a sister. Only after the Flood was the prohibition on intermarriage made.

3. Lamech 1 was the last of the fathers named in the line of Cain. Pre-flood, and with the things the man said and did, including disproportionate violence (murder) and bigamy, perhaps an illustration of how depraved and proud men were becoming.

4. Dishonouring his father.

[twerpv]

Thanks everyone for the help. Things like marrying a relative seems gross and odd today but clearly, a different time and place (and not un-holy). Robert's comments make the most sense that the relative could have been several times removed, given a timeline. Sometimes my brain reads as if it is happening right away.
In reading the scripture regarding what God said to Cain about the sacrifice, it makes more sense that maybe it wasn't the thing that was given but the heart of Cain.
The thing with Lamech seemed out of place, kind of thrown in there. Obviously, this is my ignorance, as it sure isn't God's!!
Ham feeling Noah's wrath seemed quite harsh. I kind of assumed that this was something that Ham had done on more than one occassion, that is, disrespecting his father. My daughter asked me why he cursed Canaan, the son, instead of Ham. My response was that if someone wanted to really hurt me, they would hurt my kids instead of me.
Anyway, appreciate your time on this.

[Meg]

1) Scripture does not say specifically, but from what we know of the Lord, if you do not come to God as he asks you to, he is not obligated to accept your offerings (See Luke 14:6 for an example). Either Cain didn't bring his best, or he brought vegetable instead of a lamb as Abel did; in either case, Cain gave God less than his whole heart, and God wasn't fooled. Abel, on the other hand, thought enough of God to bring his best lamb and offer it to the Lord. That's my take on this one.

2) Cain, be necessity, did marry a relative. But keep in mind that Adam and Eve had many children, and they had many children as well. And we don't know how long after the fall that Cain killed Abel, though I suspect it must have been at least 15-20 years later. Scripture also doesn't say how long afterwards that he took a wife, but I'm thinking that since there are people living in other areas of the world, that Cain got married quite some time after he killed Able. That would mean he married a cousin that was removed a few times.

3) Let's take a look at scripture:

"Lamech said to his wives, “Adah and Zillah, Listen to my voice, You wives of Lamech, Give heed to my speech, For I have killed a man for wounding me; And a boy for striking me; If Cain is avenged sevenfold, Then Lamech seventy-sevenfold." (Genesis 4:23-24, NASB)

First off: we see he has TWO wives. This violates God's edict previously that A man and A woman would be one flesh, NOT a man and TWO women. Second, he barks at them as if they were servants rather than his beloved wives; not exactly the way God wants men to treat women. Third, he's boasting about killing those that had tried to wound him; self defense is one thing, but why the need to boast? Finally, he is saying that if god would avenge Cain sevenfold, than He would avenge Lamech far more. The picture we have here is of an angry man proclaiming to his wives that he was justified for what he did and that God would look favorably upon it. This echoes in my mind the last verse in the book of Judges:

"In those days there was no king in Israel; everyone did what was right in his own eyes" (Judges 21:25, NASB)

We note later in Genesis:

"Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart." (Genesis 6:5-6, NASB)

What I think we are seeing here is the foreshadowing of man's wicked heart as he began to fill the earth for the first time, something that would come to full fruition generations later.

4) This one has gotten me as well. I have a theory, but I need to pray and gain some insight on it.

[arapahoepark]

Yes everyone of these are great answers!
And I was to emphasize that Cain's wife would have been a sister. When we were initially created we had no flaws in our genes, and slowly as each generation passes there's more and more mutations, so now and back during moses' time massive flaws in the genes with relations between relatives would have come about.

[Robert]

Yes everyone of these are great answers!
And I was to emphasize that Cain's wife would have been a sister. When we were initially created we had no flaws in our genes, and slowly as each generation passes there's more and more mutations, so now and back during moses' time massive flaws in the genes with relations between relatives would have come about.

Actually, conditions on the planet before the flood would have been different, so mutations would not have accrued so rapidly.

[arapahoepark]

Actually, conditions on the planet before the flood would have been different, so mutations would not have accrued so rapidly.

Exactly!

[Robert]

Exactly!

Yeah, but it wouldn't have HAD to have been his immediate sister; could have been a cousin.

[arapahoepark]

Yeah, but it wouldn't have HAD to have been his immediate sister; could have been a cousin.

the cousin would be...his sister? lol I am not sure where we are going with this anyway. All I know is, evolution isn't true, and they had to be fruitful.

[Robert]

the cousin would be...his sister? lol I am not sure where we are going with this anyway. All I know is, evolution isn't true, and they had to be fruitful.

Well, on the bright side: we know it wasn't his uncle!!!

[mattfivefour]

BTW, good answers all. I happen to agree with Robert and Micah. Those are good scriptural answers. But I also like Meg's response. If we do not see an answer for ourselves in the Word, then rather than try to figure something out on our own we are better to say, "As far as I can see, Scripture doesn't say, so we don't really know. However, instead of focusing on what we do not know, let us leave it with God and focus on what we do know." That is brilliant in its humility and trust!

[Meg]

BTW, good answers all. I happen to agree with Robert and Micah. Those are good scriptural answers. But I also like Meg's response. If we do not see an answer for ourselves in the Word, then rather than try to figure something out on our own we are better to say, "As far as I can see, Scripture doesn't say, so we don't really know. However, instead of focusing on what we do not know, let us leave it with God and focus on what we do know." That is brilliant in its humility and trust!

Enjoy that rare treat, Matt, as I don't often take a break from trying to figure something out!