Revelation 14:14-15??

[xavdixe17]

ok so like many of you i was raised in a pre-trib believing church, and i still do believe in this. However recently i was reading revelation 14 and in vs 14 and 15 reached a wall. it says:


Rev
14And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

now one like unto the Son of man is obviously Jesus as John also referred to Him in like manner in Chapter 1 vs 13 in Revelation. what puzzeled me is this, if the rapture has already occured at this point in time where from rev 1-13 they already had tribulations, the mark of the beast, the ac etc etc., WHAT or WHO exactly is Jesus reaping?? will it be the ones left behind who later accept Jesus? does it have nothing to do with humans but like plant animals?? help me out here! im confused because ive recently heard compelling statements from others suggesting a possible mid-trib rapture meaning the church may have to go through a portion of tribulation.
in the end its really neither here nor there, we just need to be ready when it comes but i just need someone to smack some good Bible sense into me and explain or theorize what this reaping in the middle if the tribulation is referring to. thanks God Bless

[Robert]

I wrote about this already:

The Tribulation Part 10: The Winepress of Wrath

[Elijah's Mantle]

ok so like many of you i was raised in a pre-trib believing church, and i still do believe in this. However recently i was reading revelation 14 and in vs 14 and 15 reached a wall. it says:


Rev
14And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

now one like unto the Son of man is obviously Jesus as John also referred to Him in like manner in Chapter 1 vs 13 in Revelation. what puzzeled me is this, if the rapture has already occured at this point in time where from rev 1-13 they already had tribulations, the mark of the beast, the ac etc etc., WHAT or WHO exactly is Jesus reaping?? will it be the ones left behind who later accept Jesus? does it have nothing to do with humans but like plant animals?? help me out here! im confused because ive recently heard compelling statements from others suggesting a possible mid-trib rapture meaning the church may have to go through a portion of tribulation.
in the end its really neither here nor there, we just need to be ready when it comes but i just need someone to smack some good Bible sense into me and explain or theorize what this reaping in the middle if the tribulation is referring to. thanks God Bless

well thats some interesting and thoughtful questions
I am not real studied myself but I could try and make sense of it
when it reads and I looked and behold a white cloud and upon the cloud one sat like unto the son of man .......... I think that speaks of who is the Lord Jesus Christ and white is for purity
and cloud means Glory , and then when it goes on to make reference to
the son of man that refers to Jesus and his humanity as Jesus Christ which always points to the cross

Having on his head a golden crown ...means to me that Jesus is in his victory
and in his hand a sharp sickle .... so we know reaping will be done , battle of Armageddon cause of what the chapters talking about

and another angel came out of the temple crying with a loud voice to him who sat on the cloud

this gets a little hard for me , Ill have to dig it up about the angels will get right back after I find it

[Elijah's Mantle]

now one like unto the Son of man is obviously Jesus as John also referred to Him in like manner in Chapter 1 vs 13 in Revelation. what puzzeled me is this, if the rapture has already occured at this point in time where from rev 1-13 they already had tribulations, the mark of the beast, the ac etc etc., WHAT or WHO exactly is Jesus reaping??

when it says thrust in your sickle and reap for the time is come for you to reap for the harvest of the earth is ripe ..... thats speaking of the battle of Armageddon which takes place ,I dont know when just that it takes place
well it goes on to say and the earth was reaped ..... and we know it is Jesus reaping
yet backing up to the angels angels play a role also in the reaping because
the first Angel .... that one preached the everlasting Gospel
the second Angel .... that one predicted the fall of Babylon I believe
and then that third Angel sounded of warning about taking the mark of the beast and that last one
yes the fourth Angel thats the one that announces the battle of Armageddon


well I dont rightly know how to give a great answer about it
but reading that verse that says BLESSED are the dead which die in the Lord from HENCEFORTH
that indicates to me the ones that are killed in the tribulations when people die over their testimony rather than take the mark

what or who is Jesus reaping ?
in verse 19 it tells it
the vine of the earth
is gathered to a place
in the Hebrew tongue called Armageddon

when it speaks of the winepress of the wrath of God we know from that what they were reaped and gathered for
down there in that valley named Jehoshaphat

he is a reaping them to gather for the last battle
the blood runs real deep millions killed

[Elijah's Mantle]

WHAT or WHO exactly is Jesus reaping?? will it be the ones left behind who later accept Jesus? does it have nothing to do with humans but like plant animals?? help me out here! im confused because ive recently heard compelling statements from others suggesting a possible mid-trib rapture meaning the church may have to go through a portion of tribulation.
in the end its really neither here nor there, we just need to be ready when it comes but i just need someone to smack some good Bible sense into me and explain or theorize what this reaping in the middle if the tribulation is referring to. thanks God Bless

reading it in the verse and order stated by The word in the book with out chopping it up and like putting it in a Blender
The time of tribulations will clearly have as the verse stated ... Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord Henceforth ...those are people who die in the Lord
the others later reaped are not so blessed because prior to the last read verses you read about the wine-press of wrath

It to me does not indicate necessarily a mid trib
it just indicates that all the ones who take the mark of the beast in the great tribulation time will be rejecting Jesus and following satan and rejecting if not blaspheming the Holy Spirit

what is to take place on earth is first orchestrated in heaven
we can back up and find the answer to some of it

[the stranger]

Some thoughtful questions indeed. I have read as many proposed possibilities in Revelation as there are verses. I have my beliefs, others have theirs. The best I can tell you is to read, do your best to understand what you can by cross referencing of course, and let the Holy Spirit guide you to your own belief. It is great to get answers and help from others, such as this site, but in the end, it is what we believe.

In the end, though most on this site are hard core pre trib, I do not see the end time events and the pre/mid/post trib return to be a huge factor at all when relating it with our walk with Christ, and often, it splits some Christians up who make it a my way or the highway case in point.

Many question why the Holy Spirit does not guide all Christians to the same understanding. I believe no matter how we believe the scripture to read when relating to these end time events, there is soo much more we do not know than what we do know. I believe we may all be shocked when we find out aint no one had it down to a tee as they thought they had.

God bless. Keep reading, looking, and praying. When ever Jesus comes, even pre trib, Christ will hold us through whatever He sends our way. Full of forgiveness, and unending grace, Jesus will always supply our needs, as often it is a hand to get back up when we fall. When we all see each other heading toward our Father, somehow I do not think such things will matter quite as much.

PS I should note there is good reason that this site does not allow any other views than pre-trib. That is, the end time events is a never ending topic, and for those who already have their mind made up, it can become tiresome to continue discussing the same things again and again.

[Rescued by the Cross]

It is the glory of God to conceal a matter,
But the glory of kings is to search out a matter. Proverbs 25:2

Good advice on searching the scriptures and the value of good Christian fellowship in searching through God's truth. Not all things are immediately clear, but God rewards diligence and study of His word. I believe that it brings joy to God when His children search for His truth to know Him. Sometimes our answer comes only after a time of study and prayerful consideration. I have also grown to understand that we are one body in Christ. Just as the body must work together, there are Brothers and Sisters in Christ who have been given an understanding which they were intended to share. Sometimes my prayers for understanding are answered through fellowship and joint bible study. That has been part of my excitement on finding fellowship somewhere like these forums as there are many here blessed by revelations that they share of God's word.

[Elijah's Mantle]

well If you reason with how come Angels are so much a part of what is happening
during the time spoken about ,it pretty much indicates to me that the snatching away
already happened and whats remaining will either hear the gospel preached by the angel
or be gathered for the wine press . Normally the Gospel is preached by those God called
apparently they are gone and a Angel is now left with the task . The merciful Grace of God
gives mankind that last opportunity to hear the gospel by a appointed Angel preaching
tells me the ones former (pastors) went somewhere
Im sure people will be a looking everywhere even basements
but when they look up and see and hear that Angel a preaching
Im certain many would come to believe and maybe reckon there
former pastor wasn't telling tall tales about redemption drawing nigh
they could still look up and come to have it
but most likely they will be beheaded for their faith
lets not have no johnny come latest's

[mattfivefour]

Xavdixe17, we need to understand that reaping does not always mean the gathering of the saints in the Bible. In Isaiah 17:1-5, Jeremiah 51:33 and Joel 3:12-13 the reaping and the harvest are of the wicked. And that is what is happening during this part of Revelation. Perhaps recognizing this fact will help you understand as you prayerfully ask for the Scriptures to be opened to you. God will never fail. He WILL reveal His Word as you earnestly desire it.

[Elijah's Mantle]

OOH the other books with the scriptures
Thank YOU MATT

yeah reaping the vine of the earth indicates
difference from the gathered saints
Damascus no longer exists so sometime in the future
events they become destroyed
and Joel tells what they are being reaped for also
confirming Revelations

very good to study on in them other books too
comes together how it will be much more