I've never been allowed to ask this.

[Nell]

I believe some of you understand the very strict "religious background" that I grew up under, and so I have some questions that may sound stupid or I may end up confusing myself during my question...so please, feel free to correct me or redirect my thinking. I also tried to find this question in the archives and couldn't, so please forgive me if it has already been asked/answered.

I know that God is all knowing. So, then why do we have to go through the things we do? I mean, if He already knew us as we were being formed in our mother's womb, knew what our name would be, knew who we would marry, knows when we will die (if we die), then why O why O why????

Example one: Let's say for example I am tempted to rob a bank (which I am never have been). But let's say I am that type of person. Wouldn't God know that on 9/10/10, Nell is going to rob such and such bank, and shoot to kill 25 people? Then, why do we have to go through the motions of doing it. He already knows everything....then why let it play out? Why let us go through these pains? Why let the devil and his minions harm us?

As a mother, if I had the power to know ahead of time that "Little Johnny" was going to throw a rock at my child next Sunday, and make my baby bleed and cry, I would'nt even let "Little Johnny" and my child breathe the same air on that day. I know she is only going to get hurt, and cry. What would the point be?

Doesn't the Lord know who is destined for heaven and for hell already? He knows who will love Him and who will not....who the devil will fool, and who will not....Right? Or am I missing the whole picture and confusing myself?

When I was a child, I used to play with ants. I would see them walking in a trail, and then take a twig and draw a line through the trail. I knew this would confuse them for a few seconds, then they would get back in line. Then I would take a big stick and mess up the line. They would then be confused for a few minutes before they got in line. All of this was done purely for my amusement. I thought it was funny. Then eventually, I would get bored, because I knew the story line, and move on to something else.

Does anyone see where I am going with this? I am not trying to be disrespectful and question God, but I just don't understand. And when I was a child, I would try to ask the adults this, and the best answer I got was either "we won't know" or "don't you dare ask a question like that". Am I wrong for wondering?

[Nell]

Sorry...I had to take a break to attend to baby.

I mean, I know God wants us to learn to trust him and everything...but...I GOT THAT PART....I mean really. I learned that when I first got saved that I am to trust Jesus for everthing, and that He is God. Let's put it this way, I was never the child who got beat over and over for staying out too late at night. I usually catch on very fast. I just don't understand.

[mikhen7]

Nell there are several answers to your questions. One of them is that this earth is where God has chosen to place us for heavenly training. In the military you go through bootcamp to learn the ways of the new and rigid life you will be subjected to. In our lives on earth, in Christ, we are also subjected to many experiences we would rather not endure. But the Lord is always teaching, training, and molding us into the image of Christ that we may serve alongside of Him for eternity. When the Bible speaks of rewards and the elders cast their crowns at the feet of Jesus it is not speaking of valuable items in the way we think of them, but of heavenly responsibilities. The 24 elders cast them at the feet of Jesus because that is where the devotion they represent lies.

There is not a Christian alive that has not wished the death of the devil and his angels and the eradication of sin on the earth. But as long as we are here, it means we are not in heaven yet, so we have to live with the injustices that sin acts out in the heart of the wicked. That alone gives me hope for the future i.e. there is a better place to come. However, while here, God does not will that any perish so He has given us the commission to share His good news with those that are lost. All of us have sinned, the gospel-in the truth it represents, frees us from the penalty of sin, and opens up the door for us to serve the Lord.

He has a plan for each of us in this life. The closer and more faithful we become the more open we are to serve Him in His revelatory will.

Yes, God does know us from the moment of conception. He watches as we grow. But the poem He has written for our lives only goes into effect once we trust Him as Lord and Savior. We then become that poiema or workmanship (Eph. 2:10) that He has purposed for us beforehand.

Another reason is Justice. What if God created the world and the moment Adam an Eve sinned He fast forwarded us to eternity. The whole past would be a history we would not be aware of and those in Hell would be asking why? They would simply state "but you never gave us a chance." What would God's answer be? "You would have said no to Me anyway." How just is that? He may indeed know who will say yes and who will say no but He also gives them a chance to prove it.

So in short, we are here to serve and fellowship with the Lord. His longsuffereing for the lost is a show of His mercy. His work with us is for our eternal training. Be of good cheer, He loves us all, but the sin you see around us will be judged. But one day when given the chance to ask God "why," maybe the splendor of heaven and eternity will overule all our questionings.

The revelation of God from Genesis to Revelation is redemptive in nature. It is God working feverishly with a sometimes obstinate creation in order to breing redemption.

God Bless. Others are sure to chime in with more answers than these. Until then may God continue to grant us all His precious grace.

[readytogo]

Just to add a couple of thoughts to what was already said, if "Nell" was going to rob a bank and kill 25 people why would God prevent it? That would take away Nell's free will to do what she thought was right in her own eyes. We are all responsible for the decisions that we make (and many times times for the decision to sin by others).

As far as your second question, we see in Romans 8:28-29

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Many people quote verse 28, but don't quote the next verse. Christ suffered and yet remained obedient to the Father. Not just the physical pain, but also the isolation, the mockery, and abandonment by His friends. My understanding is that the reason that we suffer is to make us conformed to the "image" of Christ.

Also, as a mother, if you KNEW for a fact that "Little Johnny" was going to hit your child with a rock, I understand that you would try to keep your daughter away from him. However, you don't know that for a fact. God being omniscient WOULD know, but to prevent it, He would have to take away "Little Johnnie's" free will and your daughter's suffering that many of us experience. (If your daughter was always "protected" and lead a "perfect life", why would she think that she needs a savior?

[LivnForChrist]

We learn quite a bit by going through trials and tribulations. As a parent of
young adults and near adults, I have watched my kids learn more from mistakes
and suffering the consequences of mistakes at times, than learning from my lectures.
My lectures had more teeth when coupled with experience. I'm reading on a book
on pain and suffering and where's God during times like these. Without pain
and hard times, the good times wouldn't mean as much. We will spend eternity
rejoicing and praising God because of what He has delivered us from. We learn to
trust and obey God during our hard times. We also glorify Him by showing the Devil
and others that we are not just serving God for what he can do for us. God could keep
us from suffering but you know what? We'd probably be a lot less effective for God.
Face it, some of us would become spoiled, lazy, and self indulgent and what of
our tesimony then? No test, no testimony.

[mattfivefour]

Nell, when my children were learning to walk, my wife and I were so protective of them ... worrying over and over about every little thing on which they could hurt themselves. Eventually we got to the point of trying to protect them from themselves. As they got older we had to learn that while we could warn them, they would only truly learn by their own experiences. A generation later, when we watched our grandchildren learning to walk and saw our children making the same mistakes as we did, we tried to tell them the way to do it. Guess what? They did it their way. Until they learned the lesson for themselves.

All of us are the same way. God did not create puppets. There could be no love between a puppet and a person, no true relationship. Neither could there be love and relationship between a Creator and those He has created if He controlled His Creation. We have to come willingly to Him and just as willingly He accepts us when we do, forgiving us for all of our rebellion against Him and clothing us with the robes of the favored son. We are so rich in Christ!!! So very blessed!!! But none of this could ever be, if we were puppets whom He controlled. Free will is a marvellous thing. I God-given gift. But like everything else in creation it can be used for good ... or for evil. That is the price it comes with. But free will is the ONLY way for true love to exit. And God is love.

I love my kids. I love my grandchildren. And they love me in return. Not because I compel them to; not because I control them; but because they are loved by me and are free to respond to that love ... either by rejecting it or accepting it. And they have done both at various times in their lives.

I love my brothers and sisters in Christ. I love those who oppose themselves against God and I mourn over the way they are taking that is leading them to eternal death. But I do not attempt to control them. I do not attempt to impose rules upon them. I merely seek to daily draw closer and closer to God and His Christ, daily seeking to surrender and obey Him more and more; and in so doing I know that the light of Jesus Christ will shine through me more and more. This is how I love God ... and this is how I love those around me. It pains me to see people act in ways that will only end up hurting them. I can warn them. But if they reject my words, I have to let them do it. Yet I continue to pray for them and trust God for them. And I continue to seek to allow God to continue to change me so He can use me as an example to them.

I imagine it hurts God more than we could ever imagine when He sees one of the ones whom He created and for whom He died, rejecting His Word, rejecting His salvation, and going their own way. Yet because He has created them free, He has to let them go. Yet, in ways we cannot in this life see, He is always trying to draw them, always exercising His love in so many ways, always bringing circumstances into their lives to cause them to look up. But because we are not God, because we cannot reason as He can, because we are so limited in our understanding we usually do not see it. We operate at a very basic level. We see someone suffering and rightly try to help. But sometimes we need to discern that God is in the suffering working out His will so that person will turn to Him. Instead we act to protect the person from themselves and the consequences of their own actions, when those are the very circumstances that will cause them to turn to God. Instead we look after the circumstances ourselves; or we cause them to look to us, not to God. (This is why it is important that, as Christians, we come to discern God's voice, the voice of the Holy Spirit within us ... to know what to do in all circumstances. Please do not think that I am arguing against the exercise of compassion. Not at all. If we see need, we are to act. But let us walk so close to God in our daily lives that we have access to His guidance in all things. And let us discern where to step in and when to step back. It is a hard, hard thing to come to know. But as we walk closer to our God through daily surrender to Him, so the Holy Spirit is able to produce more and more of Christ's nature in us, and so we are ever better equipped to know the mind of Christ and to act with HIS love in all matters ... knowing when and in what way to intercede ... and when to just love in faithful prayer.

Because our own thoughts seem always right to us ( as it says in Proverbs 21:2 "Every man's way is right in his own eyes) and because we cannot conceive of thoughts outside the limits of our intellect we naturally judge God's actions by our own concepts of what is right and what is wrong, what is just and what is unjust, what is good and what is bad. Have you never thought "If I were God I would do such and such?" I have. But we are not God. Our frail and often faulty intelligence is but a sliver of a fraction of a shadow of His. Recall His words to the Old Saint in Job 40:6-41:11 and to the Great Prophet in Isaiah 40:12-31. Indeed! Who are WE to question God? "Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker-- An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth! Will the clay say to the potter, 'What are you doing?'" (Isiah 45:9a) It is good and right that we learn to quiet ourselves as a child and trust in our Father that He knows best and therefore His way is right. For indeed He IS perfect, indeed He IS righteous, indeed He IS just, indeed He IS love. This is why God through Paul told us to "cast down [demolish, tear down to the ground] imaginations [logical reasonings, any thought we may have], and every high thing that exalteth itself against [lifts itself up against, challenges] the knowledge of God [knowing who God is—that He is holy, righteous, just and perfect, and loves us above all] and bringing into captivity [literally in the Greek "taking an enemy captive at the point of a spear"] every thought [every mental concept, every purpose of our mind] to the obedience of Christ [to the type of obedience that was found in Christ; ie: trusting completely in the Father; committing our way completely to Him: not our will but His be done]. (2 Corinthians 10:5)

So there is nothing wrong with asking the question, Nell. Those who would forbid you are just being the kind of person you would be if you attempted to control circumstances to protect others— controlling. To their minds such a question as you have asked questions God and because they know the scriptures above, they believe this will do you harm. So, out of their love for you, they would never let you ask it. But you are not a puppet. You are a person with free will and God-given independence and intelligence. What they could not see is that by asking the question you are expressing the way you feel inside ... which feeling God knows even were you never to ask the question outside. The people thought they were protecting you. Instead, they were preventing you from getting the answer you needed. Their way would have led you eventually to doubt; and doubt unanswered proceeds inexorably to unbelief.

Thank God you were finally set free from their human loving control to ask the questions of your heart. God knew them anyway; but now you can receive the answers you sought.

[Nell]

Guys,

Thanks for such solid, detailed answers. I guess I was starting to feel discouraged/tired with all that is going on in and around my life. I have always wanted to know "why" but never thought I would get the answer (in this life), so I stopped asking. But when you feel like you are getting your share plus someone else's share of challenges, it really makes you question things.

Thanks again! I love you all!

[Meg]

Nell, this place is absolutely tops for getting great answers to questions! So relax, ask away, and enjoy the fabulous answers people come up with. I sure do!

[Zeblade]

Hi Nell,

We are free. Basic.. Satan came temped Adam and Eve and man gave up his rights to Satan. God can not change anyones heart by force. Nell because of what Adam and Eve did.. Satan has rights. God is Just! Try to remember the beginning. This is NOT the way God wanted it. But like everything He will do what WE allow Him to do and turn it out for HIS good. So HE gets all the glory. Satan never had the right to do this forever.. his time is up. For God this has only been DAYS!

So if you ASK God ..what do YOU want God. He would like us to follow Him, pray, walk in the light so He can watch over us, protect us from Satan. But God will say with that.. what do YOU want to do? So our choice now gives God the right to watch over us.. to protect us. He will do what ever it takes but never ever cross the line. So the battle is really not flesh and blood. Its against Satan. This was basic. But you know God loves you.

Would not you answer your babies questions? :) so pray and ask Him. And KNOW He hears you.. KNOW He will answer you. He will show you in the word everything. For we never take the time to PRAY!

[Meg]

No offense, Zeblade, because I know you are just repeating a popular theological concept, but I have a serious problem with the statement that satan "has rights". In fact, I refuse to even entertain the idea that he might have "rights". He does have techniques, and he certainly has an attitude, but my impression is more that he'll find any weakness in our faith, or anything else that he can claim passes for an excuse of some kind, to use against us. But there's a big difference between rights and excuses.

[Zeblade]

No offense, Zeblade, because I know you are just repeating a popular theological concept, but I have a serious problem with the statement that satan "has rights". In fact, I refuse to even entertain the idea that he might have "rights". He does have techniques, and he certainly has an attitude, but my impression is more that he'll find any weakness in our faith, or anything else that he can claim passes for an excuse of some kind, to use against us. But there's a big difference between rights and excuses.

No no Meg its ok.. Name is Danny.. Or Daniel if your mad like my Mother would call me lol. As for popular theological .. I don't know it. "I refuse".. that says it all huh. Praise God. Jesus is lord. We love Him, look for His return. Greater is He thats in us.. so thats all that matters. My ideas, beliefs come from all the years of praying and His word. I am NOT here to hurt, twist, make others follow me. All that matters to me about ANYONE is ... Is Jesus the lord of your life?.. PERIOD

Danny

[Meg]

No no Meg its ok.. Name is Danny.. Or Daniel if your mad like my Mother would call me lol. As for popular theological .. I don't know it. "I refuse".. that says it all huh. Praise God. Jesus is lord. We love Him, look for His return. Greater is He thats in us.. so thats all that matters. My ideas, beliefs come from all the years of praying and His word. I am NOT here to hurt, twist, make others follow me. All that matters to me about ANYONE is ... Is Jesus the lord of your life?.. PERIOD

Danny

Hi Danny, I didn't think you were trying to twist anything. A lot of people seem to think satan has "rights" or something. I happen to refuse to to give him that much credit for importance...

Peace be with you.

[mattfivefour]

Sis, I understand what you are saying ... and I appreciate your heart. But let us not neglect the fact that Satan was the wisest and most powerful creature in all Creation. (Ezekiel 28:1`3-17) Next to him we do not stand a chance (2 Corinthians 2:26) ... outside of Christ. But Christ has defeated him and stripped him of all power (Colossians 2:15), and in Christ we are more than conquerors (Romans 8:37). In Christ. And ONLY in Him. I will not dare suggest that Satan is without power. The Holy Spirit tells us through Jude of those who "revile angelic majesties. But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” But these men revile the things which they do not understand...." (Jude 8b-10a) And Peter himself gives us a related warning from the Holy Spirit when he writes, "Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings; yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord. But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish." (2 Peter 2:10b-12)

The entire world lies in Satan's power. (1 John 5:19) Yet we are not of this world. (John 15:19). Christ has "rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son." (Colossians 1:13) Therefore we have nothing to fear. If we are in Christ, we enjoy the fruits of His victory ... in everything. The Cross truly provides not only everything necessary for our salvation but everything necessary for every aspect of our sanctification as well.

We cannot deny that in this world and over this present world system Satan is all powerful ... next to God. For in Adam's fall man ceded his God-given authority over the world to him. But in Christ's sacrifice those who are saved through faith in that work are removed from under Satan's power and stand free from his lordship. We are still subject to his attacks, but we have been given the armor to withstand those attacks and, having done all, to remain standing securely in our faith. (Ephesians 6:13)

[Nell]

Hi Nell,

We are free. Basic.. Satan came temped Adam and Eve and man gave up his rights to Satan. God can not change anyones heart by force. Nell because of what Adam and Eve did.. Satan has rights. God is Just! Try to remember the beginning. This is NOT the way God wanted it. But like everything He will do what WE allow Him to do and turn it out for HIS good. So HE gets all the glory. Satan never had the right to do this forever.. his time is up. For God this has only been DAYS!

So if you ASK God ..what do YOU want God. He would like us to follow Him, pray, walk in the light so He can watch over us, protect us from Satan. But God will say with that.. what do YOU want to do? So our choice now gives God the right to watch over us.. to protect us. He will do what ever it takes but never ever cross the line. So the battle is really not flesh and blood. Its against Satan. This was basic. But you know God loves you.

Would not you answer your babies questions? :) so pray and ask Him. And KNOW He hears you.. KNOW He will answer you. He will show you in the word everything. For we never take the time to PRAY!

Hi Danny,

Thanks for attempting to answer my question, but I think that you misunderstood me or I misunderstood you. Sometimes I can ask a question, and it can be so complicated in my mind until it seems very basic. I understand how powerful the devil is, but I'm definitely with Meg, saying " I refuse", becuase I do refuse.

What I was asking was not so much "how" the devil afflicts us but "why" God lets him. This especially becomes my question when it seems like I'm getting mine, my brother, and my sister's share of trials. I understand that we have free will, and we are sort of speak "writing our own life Autobiographies" by simply living on this earth. What had me confused is the reason that if our all powerful creator is well aware of what happens in chapter 300, then why do we have to go through so many horrible things in chapters 10-20?

Mikhen 7 shed a lot of light for me when she stated that we (Christians) are in training on earth for what will come later in heaven. Then there will be those in hell who would say to the Lord "But you never gave me a chance". Mattfivefour gave me the excellent point of us forming a relationship with our creator, which made perfect sense.

Then "livnforChrist" gave me the perspective of how happy we would be in heaven when we understand what he has delivered us from on earth. And then "readytogo" has the excellent point of us "needing to see" that we need a savior.

This has helped me to understand "WHY" I have to go through this, and I will try to keep these things in mind when I think things are getting too tough, and I ask "why?".

[Elijah's Mantle]

I am glad you ask your question Nell
the whole thread is something
I am learning from also
awesome insights on this one every body
makes me think as I never have before
and these are good things to keep in mind Nell
we have to walk by faith not by sight
Jesus keeps reminding me of that a lot
It get's tough sometimes

[Robert]

Hi Danny,

Thanks for attempting to answer my question, but I think that you misunderstood me or I misunderstood you. Sometimes I can ask a question, and it can be so complicated in my mind until it seems very basic. I understand how powerful the devil is, but I'm definitely with Meg, saying " I refuse", becuase I do refuse.

What I was asking was not so much "how" the devil afflicts us but "why" God lets him. This especially becomes my question when it seems like I'm getting mine, my brother, and my sister's share of trials. I understand that we have free will, and we are sort of speak "writing our own life Autobiographies" by simply living on this earth. What had me confused is the reason that if our all powerful creator is well aware of what happens in chapter 300, then why do we have to go through so many horrible things in chapters 10-20?

Mikhen 7 shed a lot of light for me when she stated that we (Christians) are in training on earth for what will come later in heaven. Then there will be those in hell who would say to the Lord "But you never gave me a chance". Mattfivefour gave me the excellent point of us forming a relationship with our creator, which made perfect sense.

Then "livnforChrist" gave me the perspective of how happy we would be in heaven when we understand what he has delivered us from on earth. And then "readytogo" has the excellent point of us "needing to see" that we need a savior.

This has helped me to understand "WHY" I have to go through this, and I will try to keep these things in mind when I think things are getting too tough, and I ask "why?".

I would like to add one more reason, Nell;

We live in a fallen world; as originally created, there was no strife on Earth, work was not grueling and dull, animals did not eat one another, and life was as it should be. But with the sin in the Garden, the entire earth became corrupted, and reality itself on this planet became tainted with sin. Mankind made his choice, and sadly it has had consequences for all humanity since that time.

And Nell: it's not disrespectful to ask a question like that. Trust me, God is big enough for folks to ask him questions and not be offended by it. I think what it was though is that your folks didn't know, and were just as scared and confused by what goes on in this world.