Bema Seat

[ANY MINUTE]

Will anyone here help me with understanding the Bema seat? First, is 2 Corinthians 5:10 A reference to this?
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

I understand that the Bema seat isn't about salvation, but about our works after salvation.

When reading 1 Corinthians 15:49 - 54 about the rapture, a thought occurred to me. When we are changed and the corruptible puts on incorruptible, aren't our "dead" works considered corrupt?

How do we take what is corrupt into heaven with us to be judged at the Bema seat? I know I'm missing something here and I'm probably not asking the right question.

If any one can help with this I would be grateful.

[mattfivefour]

The works are not the "dead works" of Hebrews 61 and Hebrews 9:14 which are failed attempts to earn favor with God through our actions, nor are they corruptible works (wood, hay, stubble —1 Corinthians 3:12b) which are works of man that cannot survive the fire of God's judgment. (1 Corinthians 3:13-15) Instead, says God's Word, the things that will survive are works of gold, silver and precious stones. (1 Corinthians 3:12a)

What does this mean? Well, first of all, all of the works are built on the foundation of Jesus Christ. (1 Corinthians 3:11) that is the first requirement. And the assurance is that anybody who builds on that foundation will be saved from the loss of their salvation. However, as we have seen, only some works will survive the judgment.

The wood, hay, stubble (straw) are corruptible and are destroyed by fire; the gold, silver and precious stones are not. In fact, we know that the gold and silver are not only not destroyed by fire but are purified ... the flames causing any impurities to come to the surface where they can be removed.

Therefore the "wood, hay, stubble" represent corruptible and temporal works. These are things that we do in our own strength and our own wisdom (in other words in our own flesh) and while they purport to serve Christ they actually serve our own will and our own sense of self.

The gold, silver, and precious stones are different. We can see in the Old Testament imagery that these things represent spiritual truths. Gold symbolizes righteousness and holiness. Silver represents redemption and salvation. Precious stones represent the people of Israel in the OT and the members of the Church in the New. Therefore the works you do in obedience to the teaching of God's Word and the leading of the Holy Spirit to 1) live so as to desire righteousness in yourself and encourage righteousness in others; and/or 2) to call the unsaved to salvation; and/or 3) to serve the saved ... are works that will survive the fire. They are rooted in God's Word, directed by His Spirit, and seek only to please God by fulfilling the two commandments: to love the Lord god with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength; and to love others as Christ loved us, giving Himself for us.

Hope that helps.

[Elijah's Mantle]

good question to ask
great answer too
I had got mixed up on this because a Catholic
had said much more about purgatory and it was confusing
this is much more solid and understandavble than the differing version I heard several years ago

to call the unsaved to salvation; and/or 3) to serve the saved ... are works that will survive the fire. They are rooted in God's Word, directed by His Spirit, and seek only to please God by fulfilling the two commandments: to love the Lord god with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength; and to love others as Christ loved us, giving Himself for us.

[ANY MINUTE]

Thank you for the reply.

If I understand correctly, the wood, hay, stubble are the corruptible works we try and do in the flesh, apart from Christ. Are these dealt with through the sanctification process and not applicable to the Bema seat?

If this is correct than the Bema seat is truly only a "reward" judgment and everyone there will receive rewards (crowns) based on the righteous deeds they perform in Christ. Any loss will be not receiving certain crowns, and not loss due to any "fleshly" works that come along with us when we are changed at the rapture.

Please let me know if this is correct or am I still missing it? I may be mixing some things up because I've been reading so many different articles and commentary on this and I'm trying to put it all together with scripture.
Was the 2 Corinthians 5:10 verse talking about the Bema seat?

Thanks again for your time

[ANY MINUTE]

good question to ask
great answer too
I had got mixed up on this because a Catholic
had said much more about purgatory and it was confusing
this is much more solid and understandavble than the differing version I heard several years ago

I've learned much by reading the responses the questions you have posted also.
I usually just read what others post, this question was just nagging at me today.

[mattfivefour]

If this is correct than the Bema seat is truly only a "reward" judgment and everyone there will receive rewards (crowns) based on the righteous deeds they perform in Christ. Any loss will be not receiving certain crowns, and not loss due to any "fleshly" works that come along with us when we are changed at the rapture.

Essentially yes. Note that 1 Corinthians 3:15 says "If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." In other words, although a person is saved (only saved people appear before the bema) the loss of one's works (and hence the rewards that go with them) before God and all the assembled saints will be very painful— "as through fire." Many who in this life appear to be first will wind up last. And some who appear to be last in this life shall wind up first. (Matthew 20:16; Luke 13:30; Mark 10:31)

Was the 2 Corinthians 5:10 verse talking about the Bema seat?

Yes. The "judgment seat of Christ" and the "bema" are synonymous.

[cathysue]

Why isn't this being taught in the chruches ? This really really concerns me because I do not want to stand before my Jesus and be ashamed. We also have to account for every idol word that comes from our mouth.I feel like I am not doing any thing for my Jesus. I so much want him to be pleased with me.

[mikhen7]

Why isn't this being taught in the chruches ? This really really concerns me because I do not want to stand before my Jesus and be ashamed. We also have to account for every idol word that comes from our mouth.I feel like I am not doing any thing for my Jesus. I so much want him to be pleased with me.

Cathy there are so many things in scripture that are not being taught in chuches that it boggles the mind. I know for sure that many things do not get taught becaust the leadership is afraid to offend church members. That in itself is offensive to the Lord. In would almost seem to void any other ministry as a work of the flesh.

Others do not teach this because it requires them to come to an understanding of Eschatology, the study of future things. Because they themselves are unlearned they do not venture in. In the Bible college I went to all seniors were given a chance to preach their senior sermon in Chapel services. I remember a graduating senior finishing up his sermon with "as far as the second advent, I still do not know what I believe." I was amazed. But it is true, there are so many who do not know the truth.

The judgment of Believers Works occurs shortly after the Rapture wherein we receive our rewards of faithfulness. Because of some of the parables Jesus taught, like the parable of the minas (Luke 19:11ff), I believe it is a time where we also receive our mission, service to God, for eternity. The fact that you stand in this judgment, as Adrian has pointed out, is proof you are in heaven and will serve the Lord for eternity. This earth is a training ground for our mission in eternity. We must be faithful to God as He works to conform us to the image of Christ. This does not mean to go out and willy-nilly do anything to please God. It means to get alone with Him regularly and pray for Him to reveal your redemptive purpose. Then wait and wait....and wait some more till He speaks to your heart and reveals His purpose in you. Then follow that mission. Obedience to that purpose and faithfulness in our daily walk is directly related to this judgment.

When I think of this judgment I often think of this verse in scripture:

Psalm 84:10
For a day in Your courts is better than a thousand.I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God Than dwell in the tents of wickedness.

The Pastors where I attend will not preach on many topics because they do not want to offend. I continue to go because what they do preach is on target. I am still waiting for that first sermon on the second coming.

Adrian is right on in his posts.

God Bless

[mattfivefour]

INSERTED EDIT: Bro! You and I were writing our posts at exactly the same time! And we both began with very similar statements! Yours is right on. Thank you. Here is what I posted to Cathysue:

ORIGINAL POST: Sis, so much is not being taught in the churches today. That is why so many Christians are believing error and chasing heresies and false experiences.

When I was a baby Christian nearly 40 years ago, these things were being taught in the churches. AT least they were where I lived. Sadly today, the majority of pastors are graduates of schools that teach them doubt more than faith and the words of men rather than the Word of God. Too many pastors today read and study everything and anything ... except the Bible. Many of them go online to one of a few sites that exist and download a sermon. All they have to do is add the little personal stories with which to illustrate it. And, to help them, there are even sites that provide the humorous or emotional little stories for them as well.

There is a serious dearth of God's Word in our modern societies. There is a famine in the land! The people for whom Christ died are starving! And when people are starving they will eat out of garbage cans. God told that to my first wife—who went home to be with Him almost three and a half years ago—back in the 1980s in answer to her weeping prayers ... the very same time He was showing me out of Lamentations that "the tongue of the infant cleaves to the roof of its mouth because of thirst; the little ones ask for bread, but no one breaks it for them.' (Lamentations 4:4) It was this that put into my heart the deep burning I have for the Word of God and many years later has now formed the basis of how I serve Him.

Satan's first attack against man in the Garden of Eden was against God's word: "And Satan said to the woman, 'Indeed, has God said, You shall not eat from any tree of the garden?'" (Genesis 3:1b NASB) His second attack was also in the Garden. It offered power to man and attacked God's character: "The serpent said to the woman, 'You surely will not die! For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God....'" (Genesis 3:4-5) God has revealed Himself, His character, His will, and His provision for us in His Word. It reveals His majesty and His supreme power. And it reveals His complete victory over the Devil as well as revealing the "riches of that victory that WE have in Christ! No wonder Satan does not want it believed! And what easier way to ensure it is not believed than by making sure it is neither read nor taught? But, thank God, He has raised up those who still teach it!!! A few are on this site.

And, as for myself, I will continue to break God's Word for the hungry until they pry this keyboard from my cold, dead, hands.

[mikhen7]

INSERTED EDIT: Bro! You and I were writing our posts at exactly the same time! And we both began with very similar statements! Yours is right on. Thank you. Here is what I posted to Cathysue:

ORIGINAL POST: Sis, so much is not being taught in the churches today. That is why so many Christians are believing error and chasing heresies and false experiences.

When I was a baby Christian nearly 40 years ago, these things were being taught in the churches. AT least they were where I lived. Sadly today, the majority of pastors are graduates of schools that teach them doubt more than faith and the words of men rather than the Word of God. Too many pastors today read and study everything and anything ... except the Bible. Many of them go online to one of a few sites that exist and download a sermon. All they have to do is add the little personal stories with which to illustrate it. And, to help them, there are even sites that provide the humorous or emotional little stories for them as well.

There is a serious dearth of God's Word in our modern societies. There is a famine in the land! The people for whom Christ died are starving! And when people are starving they will eat out of garbage cans. God told that to my first wife—who went home to be with Him almost three and a half years ago—back in the 1980s in answer to her weeping prayers ... the very same time He was showing me out of Lamentations that "the tongue of the infant cleaves to the roof of its mouth because of thirst; the little ones ask for bread, but no one breaks it for them.' (Lamentations 4:4) It was this that put into my heart the deep burning I have for the Word of God and many years later has now formed the basis of how I serve Him.

Satan's first attack against man in the Garden of Eden was against God's word: "And Satan said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, 'You shall not eat from any tree of the garden '?" (Genesis 3:1b NASB) His second attack was also in the Garden. It offered power to man and attacked God's character: "The serpent said to the woman, 'You surely will not die! For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God....'" (Genesis 3:4-5) God has revealed Himself, His character, His will, and His provision for us in His Word. It reveals His majesty and His supreme power. And it His complete victory over the Devil and it reveals the "riches of that victory that WE have in Christ! No wonder Satan does not want it believed! And what easier way to ensure it is not believed than by making sure it is neither read nor taught? But, thank God, He has raised up those who still teach it!!! A few are on this site.

And, as for myself, I will continue to break God's Word for the hungry until they pry this keyboard from my cold, dead, hands.

AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!! God is so awesome! Your story parallels mine in so many ways. My verse of inducement was not Lamentations but:

Jeremiah 20:9
Then I said, “I will not make mention of Him, Nor speak anymore in His name.” But His word was in my heart like a burning fire Shut up in my bones; I was weary of holding it back, And I could not.

God so touched me the day I was saved, that no one, even if every demon from hell attacked me, could shut me down. Physical death is all that will shut me up. It is one of the reasons I love to write. Because after I am dead, if the rapture doesn't occur first, I will still be speaking.

God Bless you for such a great post!

[ANY MINUTE]

Thank you mattfivefour and mikhen7, you and many others here are such a Blessing, may the Lord continue to Bless all of you.

cathysue, I wonder the same thing. Here's a scary thought for you. My pastor knows I'm a pre-trib believer, I make no secret of this. He knows I try to study eschatology as much as possible and question all I learn, to what scripture says. I've been in this church for about a year and a half and the rapture, tribulation, New Jerusalem, the second coming and other end -times events are rarely mentioned. If they are, it's usually taught out of context or always presented as there are many views or ways to interpret this.

Forget about hearing anything about other prophetic events that may be lining up as the world blindly watches. Here's the scary part for me, that is starting to open my eyes to as mattfivefour said God's people are being " starved to death" and " eating out of garbage cans". How true and so sad. To think some, if not most of todays so called churches could be described as a place of starvation at best, a garbage can at worst.

Teaching on the Book of Joel a few weeks ago (I got excited thinking the tide was changing), My Pastor calls me to ask my opinion on some verses. Scary,huh? He admits he knows very little about eschatology and had read so many commentaries that he couldn't make heads or tails of what he was going to preach on. This was about an hour before the Wed night service. I suspect most sermons are probably found on line.

I couldn't bring myself to even attend the next few services. We go from spending 1 night in Joel to hearing his testimony about a recent Argentina trip and being guilt ed, I mean convicted, about our greedy, self indulgent lifestyles (open wallet, withdraw cash, place in the good stewardship of the church) to the latest sermon on Growing the Church.

I could go on and on but I have probably said too much as is. Do you think the Holy Spirit may be trying to tell me/all of us something? I will continue to prayerfully study and be more sensitive to the promptings of the Lord.

Again, thank you to those on this site who take the time to help others.

At least on this site we're not a silent captive audience, and false/bad teaching would be scrutinized by many knowledgable people through the lens of scripture.

[cathysue]

Thank all of you for your words of knowledge.

It blows me away that pastors go on line to get a sermon I did not know that.

I understand that these thing are not being taught in church. That is scary because the church needs to be ready to meet the Lord. There will be judgement for us, rewards and crowns.

I fell like there is more teaching on the seven years of tribulation. (Please don't get me wrong I know its just as important) then there is of heaven and what going to happen there and what it is like there. We should be preparing our selfs for that. If all Christians would be aware that we will be judged for what we are doing here on earth and judge for ever idle word that comes out of our mouths we would be a whole lot different acting.

Could ya'll please expound some on what Jesus means by works. Like I said before I do not want to stand before Jesus and be ashamed. I just feel like I am not doing anything for him. I want Him to be please with me. Not that I am looking for rewards, all though I do not want to be walking all around Heaven passing people and them seeing me with no rewards. They will be saying boy she did nothing for Jesus. ( I am just kidding I just care about what Jesus thinks) .
,

[mattfivefour]

Could ya'll please expound some on what Jesus means by works. Like I said before I do not want to stand before Jesus and be ashamed. I just feel like I am not doing anything for him. I want Him to be please with me. Not that I am looking for rewards, all though I do not want to be walking all around Heaven passing people and them seeing me with no rewards. They will be saying boy she did nothing for Jesus. ( I am just kidding I just care about what Jesus thinks) .
,

I quote from one of my posts above:

" ... the works you do in obedience to the teaching of God's Word and the leading of the Holy Spirit to 1) live so as to desire righteousness in yourself and encourage righteousness in others; and/or 2) to call the unsaved to salvation; and/or 3) to serve the saved ... are works that will survive the fire. They are rooted in God's Word, directed by His Spirit, and seek only to please God by fulfilling the two commandments: to love the Lord God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength; and to love others as Christ loved us, giving Himself for us."

I also direct you to a response I wrote in another thread: I wish i was a better christian

Hope this helps.

[ANY MINUTE]

cathysue,
I believe only our Faith in Jesus, and His finished work at the Cross, pleases God. Anything else pleasing to Him, He will provide/work through us. If you have faith in His saving Grace, you will have nothing to be ashamed of when you see Him. I know what you mean though, I want to please Him also. My problem is there may be one heck of a bon fire behind me at the Bema seat if I don't learn how to keep my mouth shut sometimes.
Others here will probably give you better advice.

My original question wasn't about what "works" were, but more about timing of the Bema judgment and what happens with our " fleshly " works. I definitely used the term "dead works" improperly. I'm glad the thread has evolved so that many other related questions can be asked, very informative.

I appologize for my last post if I gave the impression that eschatology trumps other teachings. It's just what happens to be one of the things the Lord has placed on my heart to study more. I think most everyone here longs for the time when Jesus returns for His Church, the Body of Christ! Could be ANY MINUTE

I probably went too far about the church I attend, I do pray for the leadership there and that the Lord will work through them and feed His people. I am not anti-church, just anti bad teaching and lack of.

See mattfivefour post above. Much better advice.

[mattfivefour]

cathysue,
I believe only our Faith in Jesus, and His finished work at the Cross, pleases God. Anything else pleasing to Him, He will provide/work through us. If you have faith in His saving Grace, you will have nothing to be ashamed of when you see Him. I know what you mean though, I want to please Him also. My problem is there may be one heck of a bon fire behind me at the Bema seat if I don't learn how to keep my mouth shut sometimes.
Others here will probably give you better advice.

My original question wasn't about what "works" were, but more about timing of the Bema judgment and what happens with our " fleshly " works. I definitely used the term "dead works" improperly. I'm glad the thread has evolved so that many other related questions can be asked, very informative.

I appologize for my last post if I gave the impression that eschatology trumps other teachings. It's just what happens to be one of the things the Lord has placed on my heart to study more. I think most everyone here longs for the time when Jesus returns for His Church, the Body of Christ! Could be ANY MINUTE

I probably went too far about the church I attend, I do pray for the leadership there and that the Lord will work through them and feed His people. I am not anti-church, just anti bad teaching and lack of.

Any Minute, you are absolutely correct. You have grasped the truth of the gospel perfectly.

[Meg]

INSERTED EDIT: Bro! You and I were writing our posts at exactly the same time! And we both began with very similar statements! Yours is right on. Thank you. Here is what I posted to Cathysue:

ORIGINAL POST: Sis, so much is not being taught in the churches today. That is why so many Christians are believing error and chasing heresies and false experiences.

When I was a baby Christian nearly 40 years ago, these things were being taught in the churches. AT least they were where I lived. Sadly today, the majority of pastors are graduates of schools that teach them doubt more than faith and the words of men rather than the Word of God. Too many pastors today read and study everything and anything ... except the Bible. Many of them go online to one of a few sites that exist and download a sermon. All they have to do is add the little personal stories with which to illustrate it. And, to help them, there are even sites that provide the humorous or emotional little stories for them as well.

There is a serious dearth of God's Word in our modern societies. There is a famine in the land! The people for whom Christ died are starving! And when people are starving they will eat out of garbage cans. God told that to my first wife—who went home to be with Him almost three and a half years ago—back in the 1980s in answer to her weeping prayers ... the very same time He was showing me out of Lamentations that "the tongue of the infant cleaves to the roof of its mouth because of thirst; the little ones ask for bread, but no one breaks it for them.' (Lamentations 4:4) It was this that put into my heart the deep burning I have for the Word of God and many years later has now formed the basis of how I serve Him.

Satan's first attack against man in the Garden of Eden was against God's word: "And Satan said to the woman, 'Indeed, has God said, You shall not eat from any tree of the garden?'" (Genesis 3:1b NASB) His second attack was also in the Garden. It offered power to man and attacked God's character: "The serpent said to the woman, 'You surely will not die! For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God....'" (Genesis 3:4-5) God has revealed Himself, His character, His will, and His provision for us in His Word. It reveals His majesty and His supreme power. And it reveals His complete victory over the Devil as well as revealing the "riches of that victory that WE have in Christ! No wonder Satan does not want it believed! And what easier way to ensure it is not believed than by making sure it is neither read nor taught? But, thank God, He has raised up those who still teach it!!! A few are on this site.

And, as for myself, I will continue to break God's Word for the hungry until they pry this keyboard from my cold, dead, hands.

I want to add some thoughts to this. I know a local Pastor, a really kind man. He was with his Dad in a car accident that killed his father when he was about 7. As an adult and a Pastor, I have reason to believe that he has struggles of his own, and he is far from the only seasoned Pastor who does. So who ministers to the Pastors? Who do they dare turn to?

I'm going to name names, because I think this matters. Whatever he may have done wrong, David Wilkerson with his son Gary has gone out holding Pastors conferences to minister to the Pastorate, and he found out that they have needs too (that was a real eye-opener for me). I sometimes think Pastors are under a lot of pressure to have it all together, and I also think it would be better if churches had teams of Pastors rather than one man leadership, so if someone needs a break, there's another to stand in. But those are just my comments from the peanut gallery, as-it-were...

[mikhen7]

I want to add some thoughts to this. I know a local Pastor, a really kind man. He was with his Dad in a car accident that killed his father when he was about 7. As an adult and a Pastor, I have reason to believe that he has struggles of his own, and he is far from the only seasoned Pastor who does. So who ministers to the Pastors? Who do they dare turn to?

I'm going to name names, because I think this matters. Whatever he may have done wrong, David Wilkerson with his son Gary has gone out holding Pastors conferences to minister to the Pastorate, and he found out that they have needs too (that was a real eye-opener for me). I sometimes think Pastors are under a lot of pressure to have it all together, and I also think it would be better if churches had teams of Pastors rather than one man leadership, so if someone needs a break, there's another to stand in. But those are just my comments from the peanut gallery, as-it-were...

That's a pretty good "Peanut Gallery." Pastors normally are befriended by other pastors and they minister to each other. But the person one chooses must be of the utmost character as far as confidences are concerned. In the SBC they have associations and within that group you meet other pastors. It was there that I always found a shoulder.

Currently, I do not have a Pastor friend that I can honestly share with. Currently I am not pastoring but I am ordained. I couldn't share with my own Pastor because he is so aloof from the common folk like me. I have had some friends in the past but since moving to Illinois I haven't found one yet. Sorrowful huh?

I have my wife. The one I thought i could trust stabbed me in the back.

God Bless.

[cathysue]

Any Minute Thank you for your response. I am glad you know where I am coming from. I just don't want to be ashamed when He judges me.

I am sorry for getting away from your original question and please do not get me wrong I love the study of eschatology but I also want to know what is going to be happening where I am going to be. Thanks again.

[Elijah's Mantle]

I hope you all will keep going
cause I realize that I never studied
or understood much on this at all
I am getting closer to grasping it from this discussed


Is there more ?

[Elijah's Mantle]

when I was combing scripture to try and understand this topic more
uuhm I got concerned because I read some things

there is a passage that says I know your works they are neither cold or hot
anyway then somehow I got ahold of Revelations 3
and I can't help but ask

Is the church some how cut off ?

reason I ask is because it indicates it can happen

what does that say about works