Bema Seat

[Elijah's Mantle]

which church is without spot or wrinkle ?
like present day ?

[mattfivefour]

EM, the "church without spot or wrinkle" is us ... the body of believers whom He has saved by His blood. In other words, we are the Church of Jesus Christ. We are pure in Him, righteous with His righteousness, holy with His holiness. In God's eyes we are perfect in position, because our position is in Christ. Our condition on this earth may be something else. In our flesh we are weak. But those who are truly Christ's desire to be pure, and daily they make the decisions to choose to want be like Christ and so allow the Holy Spirit to do the work of changing them. We may stumble sometimes, but when we do we confess our sin, trust in the power of Christ's blood, and we keep pressing on toward the mark of the high calling of Jesus Christ.

Because of Jesus Christ and what He did on the Cross, He will present us to the Father on that Day, without spot or wrinkle. We shall be perfect for 1 John 3:2 tell us that we shall be like Christ when we finally see Him face to face. It is not a work we can do, it is a sovereign work of God alone.

[micah719]

That's a pretty good "Peanut Gallery." Pastors normally are befriended by other pastors and they minister to each other. But the person one chooses must be of the utmost character as far as confidences are concerned. In the SBC they have associations and within that group you meet other pastors. It was there that I always found a shoulder.

Currently, I do not have a Pastor friend that I can honestly share with. Currently I am not pastoring but I am ordained. I couldn't share with my own Pastor because he is so aloof from the common folk like me. I have had some friends in the past but since moving to Illinois I haven't found one yet. Sorrowful huh?

I have my wife. The one I thought i could trust stabbed me in the back.

God Bless.

Bingo, you've hit the problem on the head as to why church sermons are so dumbed down for the masses. Nicolaitanism. As soon as you get a caste of professional priests "aloof from the common folk" we're all in great danger. Having a paid priest means he has to justify his existence.....meaning he is going to keep as many folks happy as possible so as to keep the "love offering" big (or at least consistent). And the fewer problems the better.

Whatever happened to everyone being built up to minister to the lost world? What about each using the gifts of the Holy Spirit to edify the whole? Seems like so often "church" is a facilitator-led group therapy bless-me club where we sing lies to the back of some stranger's head once a week rather than being a family gathering, a council of war, a mess hall, a hospital and a bootcamp. Instead of the various complimentary offices, there is now one person trying to do the whole thing, a one-man band. No wonder the poor pastors burn out, trying to be all things to the whole flock all at once. The other side of that dud coin is that the flock have dumped all their responsibilities in the lap of the poor pastor. What a load of baggage we inherited in the "reformation". That system is únreformable....The Lord didn't say reform the Babylon system, He said get out!

To lever this post back onto the thread-rails (or at least a siding, I'll get back to the main line in a minute), we're more likely to be effective soldiers if we fight as part of a Unit (Body). Since when do professional armies lay about in the field-hospital watching Colonels and Captains try to take on the enemy hordes by themselves? Or what about when the Colonels and Captains are whipping half-naked Corporals and Sergeants to mill about in no-man's land singing regimental songs, while the Pfc's and Recruits pelt them with stones and empty whiskey bottles? And where did we get all these officers anyway, I thought we were all Marines; everyone a Rifleman, and the greatest being the servant. The enemy are falling over each other laughing, and The General is sadly shaking His head (and stepping in and slaying a few hordes Himself and with His Personal bodyguards to keep us being wiped out...). Let's throw away the pamphlets the enemy snuck into our battle-orders and field manual, and get back to the pure Word...The Bible.

For a good start, let's read 1 Cor 14; I'd dig out the rest of the Scripture dealing with Biblical church assembly and procedures but it's 5:30 am already, and this is certainly worth a whole thread of its own. Remember Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:5? He was only in Thessaloniki 3 weeks (see Acts 17), yet he taught them advanced doctrine such as detailed eschatology....and yet these days we can go a whole lifetime in a "church" and not even grasp Genesis 1, or Romans 1, or John 3, or John 14, basics. So if we look at The Lord's words to the churches in The Revelation, we might begin to see the real danger of the Nicolatians and the Balaamites and Jezebelians, and the powerlessness yet faithfulness of the Philadelphians, and the nakedness and poverty of the Laodiceans, and the dead works of Sardis . No wonder we fear coming before The Lord empty handed, or risk showing up with a cartload of firewood and kindling. You should see my collection, I'm a fire risk of Australian drought proportions!

Ah, back on the trunk line, finally. Where would the Bema judgement fit exactly? Is it shoehorned into the 7 years where Israel is still on earth and the beast kingdom is destroyed, or is it on earth after the Return, somewhere near the sheep/goat judgement? Hmm, before I drift off in relatively minor points, I better get some sleep soon...been reading all night, can hardly think straight anymore.

[makememeek]

1 Corinthians 3:12-15.

1 Corinthians 6:2-3.

Revelation 20:4-5.

All three sets of scriptures are related to this topic.

[Elijah's Mantle]

ok that I can understand somewhat
Im SO NOT PERFECT
I will have to depend on Jesus Christ and what he did at the cross
and know that it is a work that Jesus does
cause if I tried to do the work that turns out with out spot or wrinkle
sorry I would BEME still falling real short of perfect
that would be the sad case in fact
I want desperately for Jesus to make me like He is
I want to be there already
but I am not yet
you say mattfivefour that Our condition on this earth may be something else. In our flesh we are weak.
what can we do to our flesh to make it less a hindrance to our condition ?

[Elijah's Mantle]

Bless you for those scriptures you posted makememeek
it helps me further study about this

I have a question
are we supposed to Judge matters ?
cause it says we ought not to judge people
Paul even indicated that he did not know even
enough to Judge himself on the account of the heart
what he was I think saying was
with matters of the heart that God only knows
however we ought to consider our ways
what type of matters was he referring to I guess
is better way to asked about it sorry dont want to confuse
the word but study to grasp it

[king'sbloomingrose]

Bless you for those scriptures you posted makememeek
it helps me further study about this

I have a question
are we supposed to Judge matters ?
cause it says we ought not to judge people
Paul even indicated that he did not know even
enough to Judge himself on the account of the heart
what he was I think saying was
with matters of the heart that God only knows
however we ought to consider our ways
what type of matters was he referring to I guess
is better way to asked about it sorry dont want to confuse
the word but study to grasp it

This is something that someone else told me about judging others. We are to judge their behaviour not their motives. Christ judged behaviour and motives when he condemned the Pharisees for worshiping God outwardly but their heart was far from Him. He can do that because He knows all things. However we can only judge behaviour because that is all we can see and observe. In Matthew 7:15-21 it says,

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

But earlier on in the chapter it talks about not judging that you be not judged, so it's my guess that the Scripture teaches that there is a right way and a wrong way to judge.

[king'sbloomingrose]

ok that I can understand somewhat
Im SO NOT PERFECT
I will have to depend on Jesus Christ and what he did at the cross
and know that it is a work that Jesus does
cause if I tried to do the work that turns out with out spot or wrinkle
sorry I would BEME still falling real short of perfect
that would be the sad case in fact
I want desperately for Jesus to make me like He is
I want to be there already
but I am not yet
you say mattfivefour that Our condition on this earth may be something else. In our flesh we are weak.
what can we do to our flesh to make it less a hindrance to our condition ?

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

He will perfect the good work that He started in your life and He is not thru with working on you yet. Thru every trial, hardship, and moment of life, He is molding (or trying to mold you) into His likeness.

Philippians 3:8-10
8Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

9And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

10That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

I'm still a work in progress too. Often I stumble and get hung up in the mud of the world, but God is faithful and will complete what He has begun in my life!

[Elijah's Mantle]

I think you got's it very right king'sbloomingrose
that is good word on the subject
and God Bless you for answering the questions
I understand much more about it