all men are appointed to die so how about those of us who are raptured?

[myinnuendo999]

How do you reconcile the verse that says "it is appointed for men once to die and then the judgment" with the verse that talks about the rapture of those who are still alive and have never died? 1Th 4:17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

I know it's not a contradiction but I don't understand this. I'm submitting this question in hopes that maybe someone has an explanation

Thanks Linda

[LivnForChrist]

There is no contradiction just as you suspect. It's appointed unto man once to die...Who made that
rule? God...it's simple...since He made the rule, He can choose when to make exceptions to it.
He did so with Enoch and he will do so again. He occasionally interrupts the natural course of things,
that's what miracles are.

[Andrei]

Think of it this way: the moment we'll be raptured, our bodies will disappear, they'll be suddenly replaced by incorruptible bodies. You can say our old bodies have died, they'll no longer exist. It's all gonna happen so fast you'll probably not even realize what's going on until you see yourself face to face with the Lord.

And remember we will be judged, as well, but not at the Great White Throne Judgment.

I hope this helps ^_^

[Hannah]

Appointments can be broken.

[mattfivefour]

For what it is worth, the verb translated "to die" is the Greek ἀποθνήσκω (apothnesko) which comes from two words meaning "from" or "away" (ἀπο) and "to die" (θνήσκω). But the word θνήσκω itslef comes from an earlier Greek word θανως (thanos) which itself comes from an even older Macedonian root δανος (danos) which in turn comes from an ancient Proto-Indo-European word meaning "to leave". Therefore, Hebrews 9:27 could carry the idea of "dying" as a "leaving from".

We could also suggest that since we are told we have "died with Christ" (Romans 6:8; Colossians 2:20) then that would surely meet the requirement ... were there a "requirement". But this statement in Hebrews is not laying down a requirement at all, but rather merely stating a natural certainty. It could best be translated as "And inasmuch as it is destined for men to die once and after this comes judgment ...." It is not saying man MUST die ... but that in the natural course of things he WILL die for that is the destiny of fallen man. We know, for example, that two men for sure never died (Enoch and Elijah). We know that at least three died twice (Lazarus brother of Mary and Martha, the widow's son in 1 Kings 17:21-22, and Eutychus in Acts 20:9-10). As LivnForChrist said "He can choose when to make exceptions ... he occasionally interrupts the natural course of things, that's what miracles are."

However, Hebrews 9:27 IS important doctrinally because of the rest of the verse. It states clearly that after death the judgment WILL be faced. For the saved, it will be before Christ and the judgment will be of works. For the unsaved it will be before the Great White Throne and all who appear there will be cast into hell.

I hope this helps.

[Robert]

Another thing to consider: we were all spiritually dead.

[GlennO]

Also.........


Question: "What happens after death?"

Answer: Within the Christian faith, there is a significant amount of confusion regarding what happens after death. Some hold that after death, everyone “sleeps” until the final judgment, after which everyone will be sent to heaven or hell. Others believe that at the moment of death, people are instantly judged and sent to their eternal destinations. Still others claim that when people die, their souls/spirits are sent to a “temporary” heaven or hell, to await the final resurrection, the final judgment, and then the finality of their eternal destination. So, what exactly does the Bible say happens after death?

First, for the believer in Jesus Christ, the Bible tells us that after death believers’ souls/spirits are taken to heaven, because their sins are forgiven by having received Christ as Savior (John 3:16, 18, 36). For believers, death is to be “away from the body and at home with the Lord” (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). However, passages such as 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 describe believers being resurrected and given glorified bodies. If believers go to be with Christ immediately after death, what is the purpose of this resurrection? It seems that while the souls/spirits of believers go to be with Christ immediately after death, the physical body remains in the grave “sleeping.” At the resurrection of believers, the physical body is resurrected, glorified, and then reunited with the soul/spirit. This reunited and glorified body-soul-spirit will be the possession of believers for eternity in the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21-22).

Second, for those who do not receive Jesus Christ as Savior, death means everlasting punishment. However, similar to the destiny of believers, unbelievers also seem to be sent immediately to a temporary holding place, to await their final resurrection, judgment, and eternal destiny. Luke 16:22-23 describes a rich man being tormented immediately after death. Revelation 20:11-15 describes all the unbelieving dead being resurrected, judged at the great white throne, and then being cast into the lake of fire. Unbelievers, then, are not sent to hell (the lake of fire) immediately after death, but rather are in a temporary realm of judgment and condemnation. However, even though unbelievers are not instantly sent to the lake of fire, their immediate fate after death is not a pleasant one. The rich man cried out, “I am in agony in this fire” (Luke 16:24).

Therefore, after death, a person resides in a “temporary” heaven or hell. After this temporary realm, at the final resurrection, a person’s eternal destiny will not change. The precise “location” of that eternal destiny is what changes. Believers will ultimately be granted entrance into the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21:1). Unbelievers will ultimately be sent to the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15). These are the final, eternal destinations of all people—based entirely on whether or not they had trusted Jesus Christ alone for salvation (Matthew 25:46; John 3:36).

What happens after death?

[kbella1490]

Matt, You said that we who have been saved will be judged by Christ on our works. This is something that has been troubling me. I haven't been able to work much in my life because of a medical condition. Also, everyone I know believes in Jesus as our Savior, so I can't witness to them. I feel like I haven't done anything to please the Lord and may be punished. It's a scary thought.

[mattfivefour]

Kathy, the judgment is on what we did with what we were given —the abilities, the opportunities, etc— not on what we do compared to what others do. It is a judgment for faithfulness and loving Christ, not on anything else. Nobody will ever be judged for not having done as much or more than the next person, only on whether he did his best to serve his Savior with the opportunities and abilities he or she has. So just love Jesus and seek to be faithful to Him. The rest will fall into place.

[Robert]

Matt, You said that we who have been saved will be judged by Christ on our works. This is something that has been troubling me. I haven't been able to work much in my life because of a medical condition. Also, everyone I know believes in Jesus as our Savior, so I can't witness to them. I feel like I haven't done anything to please the Lord and may be punished. It's a scary thought.

If I may Kathy,

First off:

God doesn't punish us for what he knows we cannot do, anymore than he expects the moon to give off it's own light without the sun. God allows things in our lives, so for him to punish us for what he has allowed is not within his character.

Secondly, I am in a similar position: I am disabled, and cannot get out much to speak to others because I have to care for my dad. But I found a voice online, here at RF. God doesn't limit us in what means we may use; he only expects a return on the gifts he has given us.

Finally, Adrian is correct: God judges us on what we have done with our gifts. Don't think of the Bema Seat as a court judgment, but as an awards ceremony. In Ancient Greece, they would set a seat,the "Bema Seat", out for the Master of the Games to award wreaths (crowns) to the players who won.

Yes, each of us will stand before him; but keep this verse in mind:

"Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." (Romans 8:1-4, NASB, emphasis mine)

God PROMISES us that we will NOT be condemned in ANY way! Jesus, who will be presiding over the Bema Seat judgments, is NOT sitting there will a rolled up newspaper, ready to whack you!!! Instead, he is there to determine what rewards you will have in eternity.

Kathy, my advice to you is to bring this to the Lord in prayer. A couple of years ago, i too was upset because I didn't know how I would be able to serve him, and someone I wrote to at RR's main site advised me to ask the Lord.

The result? Ask Adrian and everyone else here.

I'll be in prayer for you sis.

[jesuschangesall]

If I may Kathy,

First off:

God doesn't punish us for what he knows we cannot do, anymore than he expects the moon to give off it's own light without the sun. God allows things in our lives, so for him to punish us for what he has allowed is not within his character.

Secondly, I am in a similar position: I am disabled, and cannot get out much to speak to others because I have to care for my dad. But I found a voice online, here at RF. God doesn't limit us in what means we may use; he only expects a return on the gifts he has given us.

Finally, Adrian is correct: God judges us on what we have done with our gifts. Don't think of the Bema Seat as a court judgment, but as an awards ceremony. In Ancient Greece, they would set a seat,the "Bema Seat", out for the Master of the Games to award wreaths (crowns) to the players who won.

Yes, each of us will stand before him; but keep this verse in mind:

"Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." (Romans 8:1-4, NASB, emphasis mine)

God PROMISES us that we will NOT be condemned in ANY way! Jesus, who will be presiding over the Bema Seat judgments, is NOT sitting there will a rolled up newspaper, ready to whack you!!! Instead, he is there to determine what rewards you will have in eternity.

Kathy, my advice to you is to bring this to the Lord in prayer. A couple of years ago, i too was upset because I didn't know how I would be able to serve him, and someone I wrote to at RR's main site advised me to ask the Lord.

The result? Ask Adrian and everyone else here.

I'll be in prayer for you sis.

ROBERT! YOU ARE THE BEST!!!Love you bro'!!!!

[kbella1490]

Thank you Matt for setting my mind at ease. I'm still lookimg for my purpose in this life. Hopefully one day soon I'll find it. Unless of course we are Raptured first. I'm learning so much here about the Lord, and I'm so thankful that I found this forum.

[kbella1490]

Thanks for the hugs Robert. I'm sorry that you're disabled also, but you do a wonderful job here on the forum. I wish I was as knowledgable and articulate as you and some of the others. No, I can't picture Jesus whacking me with a newspaper...lol. Great idea to pray to the Lord and ask how I can best serve him. C'mon Robert, what did the Lord tell you. You're all so wonderful here. Praying for you and your dad too.

First off:

God doesn't punish us for what he knows we cannot do, anymore than he expects the moon to give off it's own light without the sun. God allows things in our lives, so for him to punish us for what he has allowed is not within his character.

Secondly, I am in a similar position: I am disabled, and cannot get out much to speak to others because I have to care for my dad. But I found a voice online, here at RF. God doesn't limit us in what means we may use; he only expects a return on the gifts he has given us.

Finally, Adrian is correct: God judges us on what we have done with our gifts. Don't think of the Bema Seat as a court judgment, but as an awards ceremony. In Ancient Greece, they would set a seat,the "Bema Seat", out for the Master of the Games to award wreaths (crowns) to the players who won.

Yes, each of us will stand before him; but keep this verse in mind:

"Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." (Romans 8:1-4, NASB, emphasis mine)

God PROMISES us that we will NOT be condemned in ANY way! Jesus, who will be presiding over the Bema Seat judgments, is NOT sitting there will a rolled up newspaper, ready to whack you!!! Instead, he is there to determine what rewards you will have in eternity.

Kathy, my advice to you is to bring this to the Lord in prayer. A couple of years ago, i too was upset because I didn't know how I would be able to serve him, and someone I wrote to at RR's main site advised me to ask the Lord.

The result? Ask Adrian and everyone else here.

I'll be in prayer for you sis. [/QUOTE]

[myinnuendo999]

Fantastic answers and I'm soaking it all in. The great thing about talking to other sisters and brothers in Christ is their knowledge on passages and views that God has taught them through he Holy Spirit that I wasn't taught.

Makes sense that to die basically means "to leave" "leaving from" because we will LEAVE come the Rapture


also what Robert said we were "all spiritually dead"--

could it also be said that the first death for Christians according to Scripture is when we DIED with Christ ---that was our first DEATH??

the first death for unbelieversis when they die apart from Christ???

So if we died with Christ we also be united with him in his resurrection--Rom 6:5 "If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection.



I like ALL of your answers it's a whole lots clearer

[GlennO]

As the old saying goes:

Born once die twice,

Born twice die once

[Hannah]

Matt, You said that we who have been saved will be judged by Christ on our works. This is something that has been troubling me. I haven't been able to work much in my life because of a medical condition. Also, everyone I know believes in Jesus as our Savior, so I can't witness to them. I feel like I haven't done anything to please the Lord and may be punished. It's a scary thought.

Kathy

I have finally gotten to the stage where I can barely get out of the house now days. When I first got chronically ill 20 years ago I was still working. About 8.5 years ago I had to stop working as I could barely get up and get to work anymore and I was struggling getting through an 8 hour day. At first I got over my full-time work and was healthy enough to walk around the streets (for exercise) and walk to our local shops daily. I met some of my neighbours and made friends in a local cafe. I had opportunites to witness to these people for the few years I could do keep walking that much. However I found walking harder and harder and I have been getting sicker more often. These past 2.5 years I have only gone to doctors appointments, a few funerals and occassionally to my family who live close by and the supermarket with my husband.

So like you I have few opportunities to interact with people and manage to share about Jesus outside those I already know for a long time and they have heard it so many times from me now I've been told to ZIP it ono the topic of Jesus by those who are not Believers. Prayer is all that is left to me.

EPH 2:1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Besides God has assigned to us the good deeds He wants us to do. That is all you have to be keen to do while you are here. If God has set them ahead of time He must also give us the strength and the ability to complete them.

We are not to worry about how much we do here on Earth but desire to be available to do what God has ordained for us to do.

So I just pray let me be able to complete these good deeds you desire for me to acomplish Lord. God will help you do so. I trust the Lord He doesn't need me elsewhere but where I am right now. If God did I am willing to go but He would have to heal me and give me the strength and direction as to where to go and what to do.

Here is a good example of how God steers us to do His Work. A couple of months ago I was feeling a bit better than usual and asked my husband to take me to the Supermarket to get a few things and we would stop off to a Cafe for a coffee while we were out. He choose to go to one place we quite like but I really wanted to go in the opposite direction to a nearby suburb. Normally my hubby would grumble and I would let him have his choice but that day he said you know I feel we should go there as well. So we had our coffee and walked up the road to the Supermarket and saw a non-Christian elderly lady friend of my mothers who lived in that suburb having some trouble with her shopping. So we asked if we could give her a lift home with her groceries. She was proud at first but so sick and weak she relented and decided to let us do so. We got to witness to her about the Lord and give her a simple gospel message as we unpacked her groceries and helped her put them away.

That was out of the blue and so unexpected but God has divine appointments for us if we are in tune with His will and desire for our lives. My hubby & I were both led I'm sure by the Holy Spirit to go where we normally don't to serve this lady and witness to her. My mother has shared with her also.

Here I think of myself as unable but God made me able on that day and put me and my husband in the right place at the right time and gave us the words to speak to this lady. I'm sure God had worked in her heart also because she opened the conversation about God and then about Jesus so we could talk to her about what the Bible says.

Sorry I've been long-winded again.

Hannah

[Robert]

Kathy

I have finally gotten to the stage where I can barely get out of the house now days. When I first got chronically ill 20 years ago I was still working. About 8.5 years ago I had to stop working as I could barely get up and get to work anymore and I was struggling getting through an 8 hour day. At first I got over my full-time work and was healthy enough to walk around the streets (for exercise) and walk to our local shops daily. I met some of my neighbours and made friends in a local cafe. I had opportunites to witness to these people for the few years I could do keep walking that much. However I found walking harder and harder and I have been getting sicker more often. These past 2.5 years I have only gone to doctors appointments, a few funerals and occassionally to my family who live close by and the supermarket with my husband.

So like you I have few opportunities to interact with people and manage to share about Jesus outside those I already know for a long time and they have heard it so many times from me now I've been told to ZIP it ono the topic of Jesus by those who are not Believers. Prayer is all that is left to me.



Besides God has assigned to us the good deeds He wants us to do. That is all you have to be keen to do while you are here. If God has set them ahead of time He must also give us the strength and the ability to complete them.

We are not to worry about how much we do here on Earth but desire to be available to do what God has ordained for us to do.

So I just pray let me be able to complete these good deeds you desire for me to acomplish Lord. God will help you do so. I trust the Lord He doesn't need me elsewhere but where I am right now. If God did I am willing to go but He would have to heal me and give me the strength and direction as to where to go and what to do.

Here is a good example of how God steers us to do His Work. A couple of months ago I was feeling a bit better than usual and asked my husband to take me to the Supermarket to get a few things and we would stop off to a Cafe for a coffee while we were out. He choose to go to one place we quite like but I really wanted to go in the opposite direction to a nearby suburb. Normally my hubby would grumble and I would let him have his choice but that day he said you know I feel we should go there as well. So we had our coffee and walked up the road to the Supermarket and saw a non-Christian elderly lady friend of my mothers who lived in that suburb having some trouble with her shopping. So we asked if we could give her a lift home with her groceries. She was proud at first but so sick and weak she relented and decided to let us do so. We got to witness to her about the Lord and give her a simple gospel message as we unpacked her groceries and helped her put them away.

That was out of the blue and so unexpected but God has divine appointments for us if we are in tune with His will and desire for our lives. My hubby & I were both led I'm sure by the Holy Spirit to go where we normally don't to serve this lady and witness to her. My mother has shared with her also.

Here I think of myself as unable but God made me able on that day and put me and my husband in the right place at the right time and gave us the words to speak to this lady. I'm sure God had worked in her heart also because she opened the conversation about God and then about Jesus so we could talk to her about what the Bible says.

Sorry I've been long-winded again.

Hannah

Hannah, Kathy,

I know this is off-topic, but I feel led to answer on this:

You both may be limited in the folks you see in the real world (IRL= "In Real Life") , but you can still get online.

And that is a connection to the ENTIRE PLANET.

What we write here on RF and other places is not only seen by Christians who visit here, but also by "seekers" and the curious who visit forums like RF. Additionally, folks post blogs, open their own web pages and websites, and even submit articles to places like Rapture Ready. Many folks have an "online ministry" where they reach out to others, and some even do so on Facebook and Myspace. Also, praying for others online is a ministry in of itself, where the needs of those Christians and others that we bring to the attention of folks here are lifted up to the Lord is earnest, heartfelt prayer.

Kathy: as for "what did the Lord tell me"? Well, he led me to post a reply to an article on RR, then to write an article of my own. I never considered myself very good at writing, as it was never one of my strengths.

The rest followed from there, and I didn't consider myself very knowledgeable either. All I did (and still do) is to write what the Lord has placed on my heart, and from his Word.

[LivnForChrist]

I'm loving this thread. Many inspiring and encouraging responses.

[Zeblade]

Matt, You said that we who have been saved will be judged by Christ on our works. This is something that has been troubling me. I haven't been able to work much in my life because of a medical condition. Also, everyone I know believes in Jesus as our Savior, so I can't witness to them. I feel like I haven't done anything to please the Lord and may be punished. It's a scary thought.

Your looking at it through mans eyes. The woman that gave the least gave the most. There are people, preachers that have gave millions, won millions .. yet their works will burn up. We think a smile means nothing.. yet to that one person you could have changed their life forever.. do you see? Love, forgiveness, being fisher of men we are all called to do. But LOVE...

[kbella1490]

Hannah, I'm sorry that your health is not good. I've never thought in the terms that God understands and knows what we are capable of doing. I guess I've always felt that we have to find the strength to overcome the obstacles that prevent us from doing good works. I love the story of God putting you in the right place at the right time to help the elderly woman and witness to her. If I ever find myself in a situation where I was able to help a person, I'd be more than happy to do it. Blessings, Kathy