Understanding repentance

[The Aramaic Man]

My understanding of repentance is that you turn away from your sins and move on. However I know some of my Co-workers, believers in Christ and they struggle with sin on a daily basis (like all of us).
However here is their main problem, they are struggling with homosexuality and they want to overcome this evil desire. They pray to the Lord for forgiveness of their sin (lust etc) and they pray to be healed.
They pray everyday for forgiveness but they always fail when it comes to temptation. Maybe they will overcome their sin slowly?
I know God is faithful, but at the same time he's just when it comes to judgment.
Why do we all struggle with sin? (others with sins that are hard to overcome and others who are struggling less)?

[Meg]

The fact that they're struggling in the first place speaks strongly that they are uncomfortable with their sin, and that is a very good sign. The fact that they are not yet overcoming is an indicator, not of weakness, but of woundedness. Behavioral sin is a response pattern to discomfort, and most emotional discomfort has got something to do with unresolved pain. So the next step in the search for clues is to discover what the lie is, and thats tricky. If you want to find the lie, your first need is for truth, and the place to find truth is the Bible. This gets tricky when the Bible says one thing, and your all-too-real circumstances say something else entirely. So this is where faith gets involved.

OK, so now that you have a Bible, faith and add prayer, of course, and you have what it takes to get started. Not finished, started, because deep life changes take practice, failure, trying again, repeat as necessary until you are getting it right more often than you are getting it wrong. Believe me, its not easily done, it takes commitment. Thats what the Bible means by "overcome", and the reason Jesus Christ makes such a big deal of overcoming in the Book Of Revelation:

BibleGateway.com - Keyword

[mattfivefour]

If they are saved, then they are saved by what Christ did, not by what THEY do. The fact that they desire so strongly to be pure before God—if indeed they truly do—is an indicator that they have His new life in them, a life that desires Holiness, that desires to draw ever closer to God. I know from my own experience that a seed may be planted and take root, but it might be a long time for the tree to grow and longer yet for the fruit to begin to appear. The secret is to keep focusing on Jesus and to remove yourself from the situations in which temptation arises.Just as a cigarette-smoke trying to quit shouldn't hang around a cigarette store or a coffee house where people smoke, and an alcoholic shouldn't hang around a liquor store or a bar, so a homosexual has to avoid situations where he or she is alone with others of the same gender or where others of like sin are gathered for fellowship.

In the meantime they need to know that they are saved by the Blood of Jesus alone ... and as they confess whenever they fall to God, He is just and will forgive them their sin.

[Meg]

Am I still coming off like I am pushing works? I get told that a lot, but thats not what I mean at all. I can be as stubborn as humanly possible trying to overcome sin without Christ, and get nowhere. I can be standing in church singing with the congregation in the worship service and be healed of something hidden in my heart (that happened once, took me completely by surprise). This is why I believe the word Covenant is the most undertaught concept I ever saw in the Bible:

Matthew 26:27-29

27 Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29 I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom.

Mark 14:23-25

23 Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, and they all drank from it.

24 "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many," he said to them. 25 "I tell you the truth, I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it anew in the kingdom of God."

Luke 22:19-21

19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."

20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you. 21 But the hand of him who is going to betray me is with mine on the table.

This is why I believe we work in a Covenant relationship with the Lord, a give-and-take going both ways, a truly amazing relationship, living and active.

[mattfivefour]

"Give and take both ways?" Respectfully, that sound a little bit like a relationship of equals. I am guessing that is not quite what you meant.

[Meg]

The first thing I noticed about Jesus Christ was that He didn't try to force me to do anything. Here He was, God Incarnate, The Way, The Truth and The Light, and He felt no need to push His weight around. My first mentor said Jesus Christ is "The Perfect Gentleman". So I developed a very relational approach to the Lord based on the assumption that He is always right. I like Jesus Christ, I love Jesus Christ, and I trust Jesus Christ. Thats why for me, obedience isn't legalistic, thats why I find both meaning and fulfillment in obeying Biblical commands without feeling threatened. It really looks like I need to learn to communicate very differently!

[mattfivefour]

The first thing I noticed about Jesus Christ was that He didn't try to force me to do anything. Here He was, God Incarnate, The Way, The Truth and The Light, and He felt no need to push His weight around. My first mentor said Jesus Christ is "The Perfect Gentleman". So I developed a very relational approach to the Lord based on the assumption that He is always right. I like Jesus Christ, I love Jesus Christ, and I trust Jesus Christ. That's why for me, obedience isn't legalistic, thats why I find both meaning and fulfillment in obeying Biblical commands without feeling threatened. It really looks like I need to learn to communicate very differently!

I get your meaning now. No problem. I agree with you ... He doesn't compel, He calls by love. And when we are truly saved we will respond in love. However it is also important to understand that while He doesn't force us, there is a very real consequence for those who choose to reject Him ... and a chastening for His children if we fail to obey Him.

[Meg]

I know there is, Adrian, I just never had that problem. It took me a while to realize the truth, but when I came into Christ, I wasn't just broken, I was utterly shattered. Everything I had ever depended on and been led to believe was true had been utterly deconstructed, and the only thing left that I cared about was who is God. For me, Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of everything I could have hoped for and a whole lot more. I still can't recommend the long way around, but it sure burned the fight out of me...

[Elijah's Mantle]

well I have never struggled with homosexuality sin or anything close to it
however I have struggled with assurance due to the fact all effort to be reconciled with some Christians failed so my question is ? when it come to being forgiven by those who said they were brothers and sisters in Christ yet they believed more in Judging me than in loving me or others as Jesus would , so what would or could Jesus do for one like me which had been so unloved and wounded by being cast out and rejected they simply knew they could not trust people who said they were in Christ and Christian because those were the very ones who cast out , rejected and worse they denied any future rights to other Christians as I , to even have a open Alter where any repentance would be accepted

seems to me once Judgmental folks remove the rights of others to even have a open Alter available to them it kind of eliminates the repentance process exspecially if they would rather live with the ideal banishment is more acceptable than reconciling

what then does one repent of ? trusting people who claim they know God personally
or personally believing they know God so well they get to decide who is acceptable and who is not ?

[Elijah's Mantle]

I know God is faithful, but at the same time he's just when it comes to judgment.

what would be God's Judgment in your opinion or best Biblical answer you can give me

what would be God's Judgment , toward professing to be , Christians , who had chosen to rip out the Alter leaving people with out one and all out just denying others the right of open repentance and strictly enforcing by their rule of belief that was more better for every one

[mattfivefour]

God's judgment is His. We cannot speculate on it. However, those who have claimed the name of Christ but have acted unChristlike in their treatment of others will have to answer to God. If they were truly Christians, they are saved, yet their works will burn up. But it is quite possible that they never were true Christians—that He never saved them because they never truly came to Him. In which case we know what the judgment is for those who are not Christ's.

Your concern should not be with them or the way they treated you or the judgment they will face. Your concern should be to allow the Holy Spirit to bring you to the place where you can forgive them and move on. You need to ask Him to help you get your eyes off the people and back on to Him.

BTW, can you tell me which denomination "banished" you?

[Elijah's Mantle]

messianic Christian one goes by the name Zola Levitt
Zola passed away yet he built a place Messianic Christians could fellowship
and if one is Christian yet they have a Jewish last name in no way should be grounds for others to persecute them because they are Christian

[Hannah]

When they stop struggling that is when they are in trouble.

Here is another thing. They need to know they are already forgiven. I know they have fallen, they need to confess that but then understand God has forgiven them.

The other thing these men need to do is STOP going to where they can participate in this sexual sin. If you don't visit the prostitutes establiment (wether on the internet or an actual brothel) you will not have put yourself in the way of temptation.

They need to STOP meeting with other Homosexuals with whom they could fall into sin.

They need to STOP going to pleces where Homosexuals tend to gather like specific gyms, cafes or other places.

You can't just pray God help me not sin and then put yourself in the path of the temptation. If they are sincere they will start taking these practicle steps to give themselves every chance to get free.

They need to get rid of all their practicing gay friends phone numbers. They may need to change their own phone number so that these people can't phone them. They need to get rid of every bit of porn they may have around the house. They may even need to disconnect their computers for a while, change their email address. Whatever they need to do to get themselves away from the GAY scene and all that tempatation.

You can't tell me that they are not able to do at least that much. Then the only way to sin is in their heads. God will help them eventually get the images out of their minds and help them stop lusting etc... If they don't start with the first practicle steps of doing everything to get away from temptation then how do they think they will overcome this sin?

Basically these are the same steps anyone needs to take when they want to overcome a very addictive and compulsive sin. We need to do our part and God will do His part but God will not force Himself upon us we have to be sincere and willing.

I don't have ceratin types of sweets around me at home and I don't go down the sweets isle (as long as there isn't any actual food I need in the same isle with them) in the Supermarket. I have to not stare at the chocolate bars and other treats at the checkout counter. Even after years of good self control not to eat sweets (except pancakes or other home made wholesome stuff I make myself) I have to still continue to fight the urge to buy these temptations. It took ages to get this self-controlled with effort. I know God has helped my get over the initial cravings I constantly had for sweets. I still on the odd occasion get a real craving for the stuff I'm not supposed to eat but I can fight these days and have victory.

These men you know will have to do the same and they may have to fight their homosexual tendencies until they go to be with Jesus.

[GlennO]

EM

I see you are still on line. Is this representative of the 'denomination' you mentioned?

Messianic Judaism -- Frequently Asked Questions

I drove by the Zola Levitt site...are you Hebrew?

[GlennO]

EM

Law and faith

Rom 9:30-33
(30) What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith;
(31) but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law.
(32) Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone,
(33) as it is written, "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame."
Rom 10:1-6
(1) Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved.
(2) For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.
(3) For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness.
(4) For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
(5) For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them.
(6) But the righteousness based on faith says, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down)
Rom 10:7-13
(7) or "'Who will descend into the abyss?'" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).
(8) But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim);
(9) because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
(10) For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
(11) For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame."
(12) For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him.
(13) For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."


(Joh 8:36) So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

[mattfivefour]

EM, separate yourself from that crowd. You do not need them and they have nothing for you. You are a member of the body of Christ, if so be that you are trusting in Jesus alone for your salvation. And you have a fellowship here that will not cast you out as you walk with Him.

[The Aramaic Man]

When they stop struggling that is when they are in trouble.

Here is another thing. They need to know they are already forgiven. I know they have fallen, they need to confess that but then understand God has forgiven them.

The other thing these men need to do is STOP going to where they can participate in this sexual sin. If you don't visit the prostitutes establiment (wether on the internet or an actual brothel) you will not have put yourself in the way of temptation.

They need to STOP meeting with other Homosexuals with whom they could fall into sin.

They need to STOP going to pleces where Homosexuals tend to gather like specific gyms, cafes or other places.

You can't just pray God help me not sin and then put yourself in the path of the temptation. If they are sincere they will start taking these practicle steps to give themselves every chance to get free.

They need to get rid of all their practicing gay friends phone numbers. They may need to change their own phone number so that these people can't phone them. They need to get rid of every bit of porn they may have around the house. They may even need to disconnect their computers for a while, change their email address. Whatever they need to do to get themselves away from the GAY scene and all that tempatation.

You can't tell me that they are not able to do at least that much. Then the only way to sin is in their heads. God will help them eventually get the images out of their minds and help them stop lusting etc... If they don't start with the first practicle steps of doing everything to get away from temptation then how do they think they will overcome this sin?

Basically these are the same steps anyone needs to take when they want to overcome a very addictive and compulsive sin. We need to do our part and God will do His part but God will not force Himself upon us we have to be sincere and willing.

I don't have ceratin types of sweets around me at home and I don't go down the sweets isle (as long as there isn't any actual food I need in the same isle with them) in the Supermarket. I have to not stare at the chocolate bars and other treats at the checkout counter. Even after years of good self control not to eat sweets (except pancakes or other home made wholesome stuff I make myself) I have to still continue to fight the urge to buy these temptations. It took ages to get this self-controlled with effort. I know God has helped my get over the initial cravings I constantly had for sweets. I still on the odd occasion get a real craving for the stuff I'm not supposed to eat but I can fight these days and have victory.

These men you know will have to do the same and they may have to fight their homosexual tendencies until they go to be with Jesus.

Thanks Hannah!
I already told them this and they are trying to avoid this sin. They are doing very well (as they said) they got rid of anything that makes them sin. However sometimes they fall into temptation and they sin again. They always repent when they do something wrong. I am glad that I offered my help because it shows me that they have faith and they want to be healed. They both have the same problem yet, they try to encourage each other not to sin.

[Elijah's Mantle]

ok mattfivefour that is what I also knew the answer would be

I m in a spiritual mess right

H...E...L..P... Jesus please

[Hannah]

Thanks Hannah!
I already told them this and they are trying to avoid this sin. They are doing very well (as they said) they got rid of anything that makes them sin. However sometimes they fall into temptation and they sin again. They always repent when they do something wrong. I am glad that I offered my help because it shows me that they have faith and they want to be healed. They both have the same problem yet, they try to encourage each other not to sin.

Praying for your friends to be able to grow in their maturity in Christ, In Jesus Name Amen.

One thing I have found is as we mature our old ways do have less of a grasp on our minds and so they find no place to give birth to sin. Just keep encouraging your friends in His word. We need to renew our minds in Jesus and this takes time. Praise God they are struggling. Praying for the Lord to guide you as you encoaurage these men and may He give you the words to speak to them and the scriptures to share with them.

[Elijah's Mantle]

no sir I don't think I Am Hebrew

I know that Jesus is saying to my heart that we live in a time occurring and this is something that has been before yet not like now time , and there are many Demigods those are the ones who profess to have everyone intrest yet they have other interest not of Gospel the same as Jesus says and the most dangerous ones are often the leaders because they know how to bait the hook
and when they cause one to have doubt and fear that is the real danger zone

why because all the law hinges any way .... Jesus says to my heart that the danger real danger for believers is because murder or even adultery wont send you to hell , thats good news however if they hook believers and cause doubt and unbelief in a believer as yes I am a believer then one can be in a danger a real one

Im learning about as fast as I can my people perish from lack of knowing

beware of demigods those who pretend to have others best interest yet only have their own and mostly not of what Jesus would give his children Jesus alone has the highest invested interest in us were to be set apart from all current demigods running amok because Jesus has only our best interest and he protects from what is erring grievously these times were in ..... where satan loves to make us doubt and then he tries to change what is to be believed with of course a lie that would be not of Jesus .... what Jesus said Is there any other disgrace greater than the disgrace of this time where alters are removed and repentance is shunned scorned and rejected God will not or ever reject a broken and contrite heart yet he will not accept the hard heartened and I understand that many today have the hard type heart and satan uses them to convince believers maybe were unloved and Jesus dont want us ... of course it is untrue

ok I understand more set apart means were not a part of following demigods nor wolf because they eat sheep once alone and isolated as hardened would do to us then they move in to kill and
doubt always causes tragedy because Jesus knows and tells us what the real danger is