Religion vs Faith

[seekeroftruth]

First, there is a little about me on the "Welsome" thread here:
Hello

I do not wish to offend anybody so please do not take offense.

My question is this...what is the True Path of faith? The True Path of salvation? The True Path to worshipping God?

That question must be answered without religious doctrine. What I mean by that is the answer cannot rely on a religious view or determination. All religions and cults "claim" to be the way to God. I think we can agree on that. However we also can agree that all the denominations and cults in the world have the one True way. I guess I am looking at it like this:

I want to go to the XYZ building in Richmond, Va. There is only ONE road that goes to the XYZ building from anywhere in the world. However there are many people filling up buses saying "we are the way to XYZ" and they are on many, many different roads. I want the bus that is going on the ONE road to XYZ. Did that make sense to ya'll.

Personally, I feel that no religion on the face of the Earth has got it right. I am not saying that people in of themselves are wrong or believe falsley. Many go about "bashing" not only religions but simple everyday people in those religions. That's not right, in my opinion. I despise Islam as a religion, however I know many people that are Islamic that are very good people in thier heart and truly believe they are on the right bus.

[Longing2cJesus]

I gave you the answer on your Welcome thread.


I sense that you do not have a teachable spirit so it would be foolish to continue since you have already made up your mind as to how you want to go about it......whatever it is


Jesus is not a religion...........Jesus is the WAY.......period.

[seekeroftruth]

Ann,

I saw your thread and I responded. Again please do not think I am trying to offend. I know Jesus is not a religion. No question there. I know God is not a religion. Not questioning that either. What I am questioning is what is a person to do when they are searching for the True Path to God. Yes faith is in hearing and believing the Word of God. But when a person Hears and then seeks more information, more knowledge and goes to different people who also "believe", how does the seeker know that he is on the right path?

Again I am not trying to offend anybody here. maybe I am asking a question that has no answer on this side of heaven. Let's say for a moment I have never heard about a God. I get handed a tract or I happen to brows a Bible in a bookstore and it hits me. The Spirit convicts me and I start to believe. Now, I am reading all I can about God and God's Word. I thirst for more. I seek out people who believe. It is then that I begin to see differences in the way Pentecostals worship, Baptists worship, Muslims worship, Protestants worship. They are all different. Yet I look at the Bible and see that there was (Is) only One Way to Him. Yet, if I do not worship the way one denomination does I am not a part of the body in their eyes. Am I not a part of the Body in God's eye then.

I do not question the validity of the Bible or of God. I question the validity of the thousands of denominations that claim to have the only street map. It is not that I have an unteachable spirit...quite the opposite, Ithirst for more knowledge and I question everything. Faith in God is one thing...blind faith in a religious practice is a whole other thing.

[Price is paid]

Yet I look at the Bible and see that there was (Is) only One Way to Him. Yet, if I do not worship the way one denomination does I am not a part of the body in their eyes. Am I not a part of the Body in God's eye then.

So, what is it that you see as the One Way?

[Chris]

First, there is a little about me on the "Welsome" thread here:
Hello

I do not wish to offend anybody so please do not take offense.

My question is this...what is the True Path of faith? The True Path of salvation? The True Path to worshipping God?

Jesus is the true path.

That question must be answered without religious doctrine. What I mean by that is the answer cannot rely on a religious view or determination. All religions and cults "claim" to be the way to God. I think we can agree on that. However we also can agree that all the denominations and cults in the world have the one True way. I guess I am looking at it like this:

Wrong!! Jesus is the only way for he is the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father without Him.

I want to go to the XYZ building in Richmond, Va. There is only ONE road that goes to the XYZ building from anywhere in the world. However there are many people filling up buses saying "we are the way to XYZ" and they are on many, many different roads. I want the bus that is going on the ONE road to XYZ. Did that make sense to ya'll.

Personally, that sounds universalist to me. There are not many paths to Heaven. There's only one way to Heaven - through Jesus Christ. Narrow is the gate (Jesus) that leads to eternal life, wide is the road (other religions and faiths) that leadeth to destruction.

Personally, I feel that no religion on the face of the Earth has got it right. I am not saying that people in of themselves are wrong or believe falsley. Many go about "bashing" not only religions but simple everyday people in those religions. That's not right, in my opinion. I despise Islam as a religion, however I know many people that are Islamic that are very good people in thier heart and truly believe they are on the right bus.

It doesn't matter what man thinks, it matters what God said and if you are following what he said. He said that blood atonement was needed to pay for sins, hence why Jesus died on the Cross. The other religions and cults don't have blood atonement. Without blood atonement and faith in Jesus, one can't be saved. It's that simple.

[Chris]

Ann,

I saw your thread and I responded. Again please do not think I am trying to offend. I know Jesus is not a religion. No question there. I know God is not a religion. Not questioning that either. What I am questioning is what is a person to do when they are searching for the True Path to God. Yes faith is in hearing and believing the Word of God. But when a person Hears and then seeks more information, more knowledge and goes to different people who also "believe", how does the seeker know that he is on the right path?

Again I am not trying to offend anybody here. maybe I am asking a question that has no answer on this side of heaven. Let's say for a moment I have never heard about a God. I get handed a tract or I happen to brows a Bible in a bookstore and it hits me. The Spirit convicts me and I start to believe. Now, I am reading all I can about God and God's Word. I thirst for more. I seek out people who believe. It is then that I begin to see differences in the way Pentecostals worship, Baptists worship, Muslims worship, Protestants worship. They are all different. Yet I look at the Bible and see that there was (Is) only One Way to Him. Yet, if I do not worship the way one denomination does I am not a part of the body in their eyes. Am I not a part of the Body in God's eye then.

I do not question the validity of the Bible or of God. I question the validity of the thousands of denominations that claim to have the only street map. It is not that I have an unteachable spirit...quite the opposite, Ithirst for more knowledge and I question everything. Faith in God is one thing...blind faith in a religious practice is a whole other thing.

They didn't have all the denominations back in the ancient times after the apostles. Denominations are not needed for salvation, only Jesus is needed. The question is do you have Jesus? If yes, then you are saved. If not, then that person needs to find Jesus.

[Robert]

Seekeroftruth;

this topic should answer most of your questions:

Salvation

Keep in mind: christianity is not a religion. Religion is man trying to reach up to God. Grace is God stooping down to reach man.

[seekeroftruth]

Chris and Robert thank you,

Yes Jesus is the only Way. My hang-up, as some people will call it, is that because of the past hypocrisy I have experienced it is difficult for me to become involved in a Church denomination per se. The question of God is not an issue. I have always believed, although there have been times when I have gone about my relationship with Him in the wrong ways. I know the Bible and I know the Truth. I am deepening and developing my relationship. But I just cannot bring myself into a church. I know that we are not to judge others and for the most part I do not believe I do. I do however hold great contempt for organizations that say "you must do this and that". I try not to appear bashing, because there are many people in all congregations looking for or experiencing God. We are to associate ourselves with others of faith, yet it seems impossible because people have been indoctrinated with so many views and interpretations of the Word of God. I cannot find myself sitting in a Church while a Pastor takes 2 or 3 verses of the Bible and literally "twist" them to say what he wishes for it to say based on his sermon of the week.

Like I mentioned before, maybe my heart has been hardened to religion it self. Not to God but to the entities that have literally turned faith into a business. I want desperatley to associate with like-minded individuals and grow in Christ.

Again thank you for your responses and Robert I thoroughly enjoyed the post you sent me too. I do not question God or Jesus, or anybodys faith. If that is how it came off, truly I apologize.

[Robert]

No worries.

By the way: the "church" is not a building; it is ALL of those that name Christ as their saviour and have come to him in repentance and faith. The church is not one denomination, building or any one place, but It is THE body of Christ. And in scripture, Christ promises: "Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. " (Matthew 18:19-20, KJV, this chapter is also where we find Christ's warning about "offending the little ones that believe in him", as well as his admonition to Peter to forgive his brother who has offended him seventy times seven times.)

Early "churches" used to meet in caves, basements, people's homes, and even outdoors. So, it is not the organization that is important, it is your faith in Christ and your desire to serve him. I don't go to a regular "church" either; instead, I go online to fellowship and worship. And yes; quite a few have mishandled the word of God, and scripture also warns against this as well: "But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. " (2 Corinthians 4:2, KJV)

[seekeroftruth]

Thank you Robert. Where do you go online, if you don't mind me asking

[Robert]

Well, I watch the services that Jimmy Swaggart has online, and I come here to fellowship. Although in the past few months, I have had other obligations that have kept me from here.

[Adopted Son]

Yet, if I do not worship the way one denomination does I am not a part of the body in their eyes. Am I not a part of the Body in God's eye then.

You speak your own answer here. The 'true' body of Christ has nothing to do with religions, but has everything to do with believers with clean hearts and truth seeking minds. If you believe, you are part of the body. And we are all faulty, and cannot have the entire understanding nor completely factual appreciation of the whole mystery of God's creation, but that too will come to us as part of our final conversion. Keep the joy in your heart!

[Keith]

I can identify with where you're coming from today seeker as I just got through having this discussion with myself/God a few minutes ago. I think sad to say many people have taken "The Way" which is Jesus and turned it into unfortunately a religion called Christianity.

If you go back and look at acts when they refer to themselves and their lifestyle they say "the way" at no point do they call themselves Christians. I hate to say it but I think most people if they were being honest if they now are "Christians" or followers of "The Way" which is Jesus would have to admit that they probably have been lied to.

Maybe they haven't been lied to on purpose (who knows maybe they have) only God can truly judge someone's heart...but when we are first told about Jesus we are promised a relationship and when I say relationship I mean relationship and fellowship.

We are told we need to know Jesus and need a relationship with Jesus and that is true but the second we get saved it instantly becomes like every other religion and that is indeed what it becomes is a religion if you listen to man...other people...leaders...religious leaders.

In most cases it seems so anyhow, its like a bait and switch the person telling you about Jesus tells you he loves you and cares about you and died for you and you can have a relationship with your creator and the Holy Spirit convicts you and testifies to the truth of what you're hearing so you say ok and accept Christ but then BOOM they gotcha and from that instant if you don't watch it MAN steps in and takes over and here comes all this religious bondage.

They say that they want to make you a disciple and that's good but they really just focus on the dos and donts and leave out anything having to do with relationship.

You get told.....you have to pray....ok.....I got that....you have to read your bible ok I got that..... you have to witness....ok I got that....ok now also go to church for praise and worship...Ok i really get and understand that one because I know God loves me and I love praising and worshipping him for I knew it took a loving God to save me as bad as I was and I praise him for being powerful enough to be able to do that for me.

I raise my hand though and ask a question...the person who told you to do all this says no don't ask a question no questions...I told you what you need to do to be a Christian and now that you're a Christian thats what you have to do. No questions allowed, no need for questions I just told you everything you need to know and what you have to do why are you trying to ask questions.

The new convert at this point very frustrated at this time says you lied to me, you tricked me and led me astray...falsely led me into a trap. The person telling him to do all this says no. You're a christian and you wanted to know what that means or how to do it or what you have to do know and I just told you as he lists them again:

1. Witness 2. Pray. 3. Worship. 4. Read your bible (not neccessarily in that order)

The new convert says "NO" yells "NO" thats not what you promised.... you said i'd have or I needed a relationship with Jesus but the second I got saved you say "NOTHING" about that. You say "NOTHING" about what I need to do to have relationship and fellowship with him. The second I got saved you dropped all that part and just gave me a bunch of rules and regulations. I wanted a relationship and you've given me rules and regulations and said nothing of how to get what you actually promised me.

Yes Worship is great and we should, yes prayer is great and we should pray for the bible tells us to do so, witnessing is great and Jesus told us to witness to others and we praise and worship him for who he is but the point of all those things and doing all those things should come out of having a RELATIONSHIP with him and KNOWING truly who he is and when you become saved noone really tells you that or how to get that.

This is my Lord who died for me and this is my Father who drew me to him and this is the Holy Spirit who indwells me and my Lord Jesus tells me he will abide with me and be in me forever which means in this world and for the eternity to come so that means i'm supposed to be able to have a relationship and fellowship with them.

I can walk in the room and talk to my mother, father, and brother so how much more so should I be able to have a relationship where I can just walk in and talk to my GOD and have relationship and fellowship with him... I should be able to but no noone ever told me how...they just said do these things and that what is.

They wanted to make me a disciple without first showing me how to have relationship and this is what I think happens to a bunch of people. Men and churches/church leaders aren't supposed to make you disciples....GOD is. The Holy Spirit if you go back and look at Acts when the church first formed is supposed to be the leader of the church and the teacher of the church...not Man or its leaders.

Man is supposed to equip us to find out what God has called us to do or Equip us to witness maybe but they're not supposed to be the ones to disciple us. The Holy Spirit is supposed to. He's the one who's supposed to show us how to live this life, to give us the power to live this life and show us how to be more Christlike not me.

We don't give him the chance though...the second a new convert comes in the Church comes in with the rules and the regulations and the Holy Spirit never gets a chance.

This is why I say I believe a bunch of us have been lied to me included maybe now that I see what was done to me by the Grace of God I can overcome it but I don't know because i've had the religion of Christianity pounded into me my whole life.

[Chris]

No worries.

By the way: the "church" is not a building; it is ALL of those that name Christ as their saviour and have come to him in repentance and faith. The church is not one denomination, building or any one place, but It is THE body of Christ. And in scripture, Christ promises: "Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. " (Matthew 18:19-20, KJV, this chapter is also where we find Christ's warning about "offending the little ones that believe in him", as well as his admonition to Peter to forgive his brother who has offended him seventy times seven times.)

Early "churches" used to meet in caves, basements, people's homes, and even outdoors. So, it is not the organization that is important, it is your faith in Christ and your desire to serve him. I don't go to a regular "church" either; instead, I go online to fellowship and worship. And yes; quite a few have mishandled the word of God, and scripture also warns against this as well: "But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. " (2 Corinthians 4:2, KJV)

Agreed.

[Chris]

Chris and Robert thank you,

Yes Jesus is the only Way. My hang-up, as some people will call it, is that because of the past hypocrisy I have experienced it is difficult for me to become involved in a Church denomination per se. The question of God is not an issue. I have always believed, although there have been times when I have gone about my relationship with Him in the wrong ways. I know the Bible and I know the Truth. I am deepening and developing my relationship. But I just cannot bring myself into a church. I know that we are not to judge others and for the most part I do not believe I do. I do however hold great contempt for organizations that say "you must do this and that". I try not to appear bashing, because there are many people in all congregations looking for or experiencing God. We are to associate ourselves with others of faith, yet it seems impossible because people have been indoctrinated with so many views and interpretations of the Word of God. I cannot find myself sitting in a Church while a Pastor takes 2 or 3 verses of the Bible and literally "twist" them to say what he wishes for it to say based on his sermon of the week.

Like I mentioned before, maybe my heart has been hardened to religion it self. Not to God but to the entities that have literally turned faith into a business. I want desperatley to associate with like-minded individuals and grow in Christ.

Again thank you for your responses and Robert I thoroughly enjoyed the post you sent me too. I do not question God or Jesus, or anybodys faith. If that is how it came off, truly I apologize.

Some of us here do not go to church. The Bible does not say whosoever goes to church shall be saved, it says whosoever believes in Jesus shall be saved. We are not saved by what church we go to nor what denomination we belong to, we are saved by what we believe, not by how we behave or where we go to worship.

It sounds to me that you have a lot of the same problem and issues that I have with most churches today and that is that they have allowed gays in the pulpit, embraced more than one way to Heaven, etc. and these are all good reasons not to attend that particular church. The problem is that most of the churches today are becoming emergent and universalist that you can't find a decent one anymore. but they are out there, you just have to look for them. And you can do that by visiting a few churches and seeing what they are like. That's an option if you want to go to church. some people are doing small home churches these days with like minded believers.

[Longing2cJesus]

Ann,

I saw your thread and I responded. Again please do not think I am trying to offend. I know Jesus is not a religion. No question there. I know God is not a religion. Not questioning that either. What I am questioning is what is a person to do when they are searching for the True Path to God. Yes faith is in hearing and believing the Word of God. But when a person Hears and then seeks more information, more knowledge and goes to different people who also "believe", how does the seeker know that he is on the right path?

Again I am not trying to offend anybody here. maybe I am asking a question that has no answer on this side of heaven. Let's say for a moment I have never heard about a God. I get handed a tract or I happen to brows a Bible in a bookstore and it hits me. The Spirit convicts me and I start to believe. Now, I am reading all I can about God and God's Word. I thirst for more. I seek out people who believe. It is then that I begin to see differences in the way Pentecostals worship, Baptists worship, Muslims worship, Protestants worship. They are all different. Yet I look at the Bible and see that there was (Is) only One Way to Him. Yet, if I do not worship the way one denomination does I am not a part of the body in their eyes. Am I not a part of the Body in God's eye then.

I do not question the validity of the Bible or of God. I question the validity of the thousands of denominations that claim to have the only street map. It is not that I have an unteachable spirit...quite the opposite, Ithirst for more knowledge and I question everything. Faith in God is one thing...blind faith in a religious practice is a whole other thing.

seekeroftruth, first off I want to apologize for my accusation of you not having a teachable spirit. I am truly sorry for my being so sharp with you.

I have prayed and re-read both your theads and I think I see now what you are asking and seeking.

Robert, Chris, Keith and Adopted Son have all given you wise counsel.

You are wanting to know how to know what is "truth".

The only place I know to find the "truth" is in the Bible, "The Word of God". Why because we have the spirit of God indwelling in us: 1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. The Holy Spirit of God indwells us, is the anointing we have received and teaches us what God wants us to know.

We are to be like the people of Berea: Act 17:10 ¶ And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming [thither] went into the synagogue of the Jews.

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.


Paul came to Berea to speak to them and they knew who Paul was yet they "searched the scriptures daily to see that what Paul said was truth"

We need to do this constantly with any and all who teach or preach to make sure it is Scriptural what they are saying. To do this we must diligently study the Bible so that we will know the "truth" or the lies when we hear them.

I like you find no "truth" in most churches or coming from the mouths of most preachers.

I do find a lot of "truth" coming from my learned sisters and brothers in Christ with whom I have fellowship with on this forum and other forums I frequent.

I am not a church goer because I refuse to sit under someone who is not speaking truth and is compromising the Word of God.

Jesus says He is the Way, the Truth and the Life: Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

How does one have a relationship with Jesus? God speaks to us through His Word, the Bible. When we read the Bible we feed our spirit with spiritual food. The Holy Spirit indwelling us teaches us what is God's Truth. We by "faith" believe having not seen Him. We know in our hearts that Jesus is real and alive and is with us. His Word tells us so and we believe in His Word.

Praying...that is communication.....talking with God. I do it all day long. When I wake, I thank Him for a good night's rest. When I eat a piece of fruit that tastes especially good and sweet, I thank Him and then talk to Him about how there will be trees with all kinds of fruit on them when I get to Heaven and I can just go and pick it right off the tree. When I am out alone, I ask Him to watch over me and help me get a good parking spot because it is hard for me to walk very far. When I am going through the myraid of tests because I have cancer, I sing to Him and thank Him for being with me and I pray for those on the forums who are having difficulties and illness in their lives. He is ever present in my mind and my heart therefore I have a relationship with Him.

Denominations.......they are all from the minds of men and as such subject to failure......the Roman Catholics, the Angelicans, the Baptists, the Methodists, the Pentecostals, the AOG, and on and on all from men.


BUT..........the "true" church is made up of all those who Believe in Jesus as their Lord and Saviour and whose names are written down in the book of Life. We are not a "building" we are a "people" a "peculilar" people: Tts 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Tts 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Tts 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Tts 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

We cannot and do not have control over what another teaches or preaches...........WE do have control over how we ourselves conduct and live our life through Christ. God will deal with the false teachers and preachers........we as Believers are to shake off the dust from out feet and move on

It is mentioned 3 times in the Gospels so to me that means God says it is important to heed:

Mat 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
Mar 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Luk 9:5 And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.

Again I apologize for my abruptness with you. Please forgive me.

In Christ Jesus,
Ann

[seekeroftruth]

Thank you all very much.. Ann, there is no reason to apologize. I can imagine that at face value it appeared that I was debunking everything.

I appreciate everyones honesty about not going to a particular church denomination. I have such a weight lifted off right now. See although I believe in God and have faith, I was taught just as most people are that you had to go to church. I was really starting to feel like I was creating a blockage between myself and God for refusing to step foot into another organized church. Thank you all so much. It is really nice to know that others have gone through similar circumstances and thoughts.

Thank you. Thank you my brothers and sisters in Christ.

[mattfivefour]

I am back from a couple of weeks away, seeker, and just want to welcome you to RF. This is a warm and welcoming community of believers who love the Lord God with all of their hearts and have found His path of salvation through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ at the Cross. I look forward to reading your posts here, brother. Please do not hesitate to post any question about which you are seriously troubled. And if you think it possibly divisive or potentially destructive to the faith of weaker brothers and sisters, then ask your question by private message to one of the senior members here. Nobody will criticize you for asking honest questions.

:)

[Keith]

Oh Yes and I forgot...how rude of me...Welcome to the Board Seeker.

[MikeD]

Seekeroftruth, I can honestly say, at one time, I was where you are; seeking the TRUTH in Christ, the Bible, in God, all that. I finally came to a point that, I just laid it all before the Lord in prayer. I simply said, I don't know the TRUTH! Father, I know what your Word says but, I can't, in myself, say I honestly KNOW YOU and what is really THE TRUTH!

Through my sincere seeking, the Holy Spirit opened up in me a CLEAR revelation of the LOVE God has for us through Jesus Christ and DOES in fact have a plan for my life. The LOVE I discovered in Jesus Christ took care of my questions and, more importantly, gave me an IDENTITY in Christ to be able to BELIEVE without question, who HE is and who I am in Jesus Christ.

I rested my "search", if you can call it that, on a very simple scripture yet so powerful:

Pro 9:10 Fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom. Knowledge of the Holy One results in understanding.

This knowledge can ONLY come from the Word of God itself.

I pray for you in your searching. But in your searching, take your troubles to the Cross, lay them at the feet of Jesus, and see if He will not open up to you awesome things in Him.

Pro 23:26 O my son, give me your heart. May your eyes delight in my ways of wisdom.

Words Jesus Christ speaks to us from His Word because of His never ending love for us - for YOU!