Help with Scripture in MAtthew and Revelation in Rapture debate

[parsifal22]

I posted a similar thread in the apologetics forum I am currently debating the validity of the pre trib rapture with a black Israelite in another forum. I figured I could get some help in responding to the scriptures he is trying to use to prove a post trib rapture in here also Their is only one rapture and it comes after the great tribulation.
His argument is listed below he has also used Matthew 24:29-31 and Revelation Chapter 20 to support his claims thanks in advance for any help Aaron:)
Matthew 24 is nothing more than a breakdown of Revelations, especially six of the seven seal in Revelations 6.

[JesusIsLord]

Amos 5:18, Zephaniah 1:15 vs Ephesians 5:8, 1 Thessalonians 5:4-5 - Obviously, if the Day of the Lord is a time of darkness, then anything of light doesn't belong here during this period.

Revelation 3:10 - Proof of escaping the "Hour of testing"

1 Thessalonians 5:9 - We are not appointed to wrath

1 Thessalonians 1:10 - Jesus rescuing us from the coming wrath

Zephaniah 1:17 - What the purpose of the Day of the Lord is.

Ephesians 5:6, Romans 1:18 - Who is appointed to suffer God's wrath

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 - Proof of a rapture or a mass resurrection of believers.


That is just a few references. There are many others!

[mattfivefour]

Parsifal, in Christian love I must tell you that I believe you are wasting your time. You are trying to teach true doctrine and convince unsaved people intellectually. They cannot understand until they are born again and have the spirit of Christ living in them. Black Israelites (Black Hebrews, African Hebrews, whichever of the many names they choose to go by) are not Christians. They preach another gospel ... salvation by the law. The New Testament is clear that those that preach that you are saved and kept by keeping the law are not Christians. They may use the name of Christ, but so do Mormons, Christian Scientists, and JW's. Even Muslims use the name of Jesus. But none of them is Christian.

Christianity is a relationship with Jesus Christ which is begun ONLY by accepting in faith that you cannot save yourself by any means (including law keeping) and that He paid the full price for your salvation, your sanctification, and your eventual glorification. Outside of that there is NO salvation.

There is an old saying: never try to teach a donkey to sing ... you'll only frustrate yourself and annoy the donkey. Never try to teach an unsaved person the truth of the Bible: you'll only frustrate yourself and annoy the person you're trying to convince. The Bible can only be discerned spiritually ... as the Holy Spirit tells us in 1 Corinthians 2:14— "The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.:

Respectfully, brother, if you want to do something worthwhile, share the TRUE gospel of Jesus Christ with them. THAT would be doing something Biblical ... rather than trying to do the un-Biblical thing you have been attempting. God did not call us—neither did He command us—to argue doctrine with the lost. He called us to preach the gospel of His Son. And that alone.

I would gladly join in prayer for your efforts to give them the gospel.

[JesusIsLord]

:iagree

[parsifal22]

Parsifal, in Christian love I must tell you that I believe you are wasting your time. You are trying to teach true doctrine and convince unsaved people intellectually. They cannot understand until they are born again and have the spirit of Christ living in them. Black Israelites (Black Hebrews, African Hebrews, whichever of the many names they choose to go by) are not Christians. They preach another gospel ... salvation by the law. The New Testament is clear that those that preach that you are saved and kept by keeping the law are not Christians. They may use the name of Christ, but so do Mormons, Christian Scientists, and JW's. Even Muslims use the name of Jesus. But none of them is Christian.

Christianity is a relationship with Jesus Christ which is begun ONLY by accepting in faith that you cannot save yourself by any means (including law keeping) and that He paid the full price for your salvation, your sanctification, and your eventual glorification. Outside of that there is NO salvation.

There is an old saying: never try to teach a donkey to sing ... you'll only frustrate yourself and annoy the donkey. Never try to teach an unsaved person the truth of the Bible: you'll only frustrate yourself and annoy the person you're trying to convince. The Bible can only be discerned spiritually ... as the Holy Spirit tells us in 1 Corinthians 2:14— "The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.:

Respectfully, brother, if you want to do something worthwhile, share the TRUE gospel of Jesus Christ with them. THAT would be doing something Biblical ... rather than trying to do the un-Biblical thing you have been attempting. God did not call us—neither did He command us—to argue doctrine with the lost. He called us to preach the gospel of His Son. And that alone.

I would gladly join in prayer for your efforts to give them the gospel.

I have been shareing the gospel with these people also and point blank they wont hear any of it so I just excused myself from the situationand leave the convertijng to God.