Another newbie question =)

[Janos]

Ok before I begin, I am really not sure that I should be asking this here, but I could use some insight as I have been westling w/ this for 11 yrs now. So here goes. I need to share a bit of backstory before I get to the point, but it will help make make clear where this question is coming from. I lost my mother to suicide 11 yrs ago. My parents split up and divorced when I was 5yrs old. I lived with and was rasied by my dad and step-mother. Other then a few visit's here and there during my early years, I really never got to know her until I was 18. From the age of 18 to 22 we were able to bond and become if not mother/son, at the very least best-friends. In March of 97 she passed away due to suicide, sparing the gory details her death was instant. So my question is this, what happens to those who take thier lives? Did she believe in Jesus?? Yes she did. Was she saved?? That I cannot be sure of. Is there any scriptual answer that deals w/ those who commit such an act? Thank you all in advance for your answers and help!!

[readytogo]

Hello Janos and welcome to the forum,

I'm sorry to hear about your mother. It's always difficult when someone that we love decides to take their own life. Especially when we don't know whether or not they were saved. A few months ago, I read this response to a question that someone asked Jack Kelley. I'm sure that there will be some on the forum who will disagree, but I find that his answer is scripturally sound.

http://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bibl...s-and-suicide/

[mattfivefour]

Hi, Janos. And welcome to the forum.

You have posed a very, very tough question. One over which scholars—and the less learned—have tussled for at least two millennia.

Here are my thoughts. And when I say "thoughts" I mean they are my opinions. Opinions derived from my careful reading of His Word, but opinions nonetheless.

The issue, I believe, in the case of your mother is first not whether she committed suicide, but whether she was saved. And that is something of which we probably do not have sufficient evidence. You were closest to her. You would be most likely to know. But you say you do not. You say she "believed in Jesus", but yet you cannot state with any certainty that she was saved. Now the good news is that, for the purposes of her salvation, you do not need to know. It is only important that God knew ... which, of course, He did. Now it would be comforting to you were you to know. And that is clearly the purpose of your post— to seek some assurance or some inkling of truth that your mother is now safe in the arms of Jesus. Unfortunately that we cannot give. We do not have the evidence on which to offer that assurance.

But we can give you what we do have. We have God's own Word that He knows who are His. We have God's own Word that tells us that He is just, and pure, and holy and that He is love itself. We have God's own Word that He is faithful and that He would never let us go. And we have the testimony of His own Word in the case of the thief dying on the cross that a last minute death bed acceptance of Him is sufficient to provide eternal life. So what we can give you is that God, being all of those things and promising all of those things, will have certainly accepted your mother had she in her heart believed in His way of salvation ... even in the dying seconds of her life. So, fellow believer, I can confidently assure you that your mother would not have gone into eternity without having had every chance to accept Him, that God loved her more than you ever could and that He would have done everything to draw a poor, wounded and tormented person—such as your mother clearly was—to Him. And I can assure you further that you can trust God with her. His judgments are pure and righteous and loving and good. When you reach the other side and "know even as you are now known" you will know the truth and you will glorify God. Our frail human emotions and passions, our thoughts and our wisdom will be washed away and we shall see in the pure light of God. So do not fret now over whether your mother was saved. It is in His hands. He knows. And that is really the only thing that matters. If she were not saved it would be by her choice. Were she saved it would be by that same choice. And for now you can leave that in God's hands knowing that He is good and just and perfect.

Now as to suicide. The Bible clearly states "Thou shalt do no murder". That is the correct translation of the KJV "Thou shalt not kill". The word actually means "do murder". Now many, when looking at the issue of suicide, say that includes you shall not murder yourself. That would be an acceptable conclusion IF the motive for murdering oneself were the same as for murdering another. The reasons one murders are varied: out of anger, out of evilness, out of bitterness, out of jealousy, out of rage, out of revenge, out of perverse pleasure, out of a desire not to be caught and punished for some other crime. And on and on. But the motive for suicide is much simpler. It is the desire to finally put an end to a situation of incredible emotional pain based in extreme hurt, helplessness, and hopelessness. The inability to cope finally rises to such a level that death seems the preferred method of dealing with it with all finality.

That is quite different from murdering another. It differs in motive—which is, after all, what God considers; and it differs in another instance as well: When you kill someone else, you are taking their life without consent, robbing them of the further enjoyment of life, but—and most importantly of all—sending them into an eternity for which they may not be prepared, an eternity perhaps in the fires of hell. That is what makes murder so evil. But all of that is also why murdering another is quite different from killing yourself.

In view of that, for legalists to say "well God is in control and if you kill yourself you are denying His power and proving you have no real faith and therefore you are condemned" is, believe it or not, akin to legalists looking at an abused child and saying, as they said in effect to sister Ruth here, "God is in charge, dear, and if bad things are happening to you it is because you have been bad and God is punishing you."

In fact let me quote at more length from Ruth's post.

1. God is in charge, dear, and if bad things are happening to you it is because you have been bad and God is punishing you.
And so I convicted myself as deserving those beatings and all.
I hated myself and wanted to die. I had no idea what a child of 10 could have done to have deserved that but those in the 'church' told me I did. I asked again and again as life went on and got the same answer from 'church.'

2. Then there were the predestination group who said that regardless of how lousy your life was - it was God's plan and He will use it to His glory. Really? God is in need of torturing a child to bring about His good?

Neither of those attitudes is scriptural. Both seriously misrepresent and malign the character of God. And yet both are of the same cloth as those who condemn the fallen and weakened people who just cannot cope with life any longer and either do not have a relationship with Jesus Christ, or have one but are so failed by the Christians around them and so deceived by Satan's lies and his attacks that they feel hopeless and just want to go to be with Jesus.

Are they condemned? By us, maybe. But by God? That's another matter. I cannot say with any certainty one way or the other. Oh, I could pull lots of scriptures together, but they do not answer this question in black and white terms. But to say categorically that one who kills them self is going to hell regardless of whether they are a Christian ... no. That is not possible to say, based on Scripture.

I believe that when scripture is not crystal clear on an issue, then we have to look to God and His character. So again, I resort to those same Scriptures. God is love. But he is also righteous and pure and holy. Indeed, His love demands He be righteous, as do his purity and holiness. But conversely, his righteousness and purity and holiness are expressions of His love and are, in fact, necessitated by it. So here is the root question to consider in this matter: Is a child of His who is so downtrodden and robbed of faith in His sufficiency to sustain her (or him) at the nadir of their existence that they seek to end their state of hopelessness by ending their life worthy of His condemnation? Or of His compassion? Study God's Word. Look to the descriptions of His character, especially in the New Testament as revealed by the Son. And I think you will have your answer.

If your mother is not in Heaven, I do not believe it would be because of her killing herself. It would only be because she rejected Jesus as her Savior. And that, as we discussed above, is something you have to leave in God's hands until you, too, pass through the veil to the other side.

I pray that in some small way what I have written here will help you. I ask our Heavenly Father, the God of all Creation, the Final Arbiter of all things, that He bless you and comfort you in your concern. And I ask you to try not to worry about the imponderables such as this but rather trust wholly in the goodness and the compassion of your God, Your Lord, Your Savior. I can assure you with absolutely no degree of doubt that ALL His ways and ALL His judgments are truly perfect and good.

Live so as to draw closer to Him and to serve Him with all of your heart. And trust Him with all of the rest.

God bless.

[bghtnpd4]

I absolutely agree with Karen, Matt, and Jack Kelly on this issue, and I am so sorry for your loss. 2: