What you're not told about tithing

[GlennO]

EM- said:

so that means tithing continues even under the New Covenant

GlennO said:

NO!!

I feel my flesh nature being brought to the surface, so I will withdraw from this thread

[Elijah's Mantle]

I read it as follows :

The meaning of the third year is the tithe's of the first and second years was to be eaten before the Lord at the sanctuary then what was not used, the balance was given to the sanctuary.

The tithe of the third year was for the poor and the needy including the Levite' s

where do you differ from it GlennO ? and why ?

[Elijah's Mantle]

I can not agree with your conclusion regarding Abraham giving a tenth of the spoil to Melchizedek being binding on the Church.

EM said:
all of us are Children of Abraham according to Galatians 3:7
so that means tithing continues even under the New Covenant
we pay tithe which is the same as paying it to Christ
to help with the work of God
NO!!

We were also children of the curse and under the law.

I get that your saying No we dont have to pay tithes GlennO
that part I figured out and said in my last two posts that I did Get why
your saying No about that part in which I agree and thought that I understood
however you told me no I was still wrong about it
so now yes I am very confused as to why ?

as for the one Tallon ask how we read it
I stand by what I said I read it states from scripture
(do you interpret it differently ?)
If so just state how you interpret it
thats what Tallon was asking about
Its not like I just grabbed a scripture or something
I was answering the question ask

Deu 14:27
(27) And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee.

You cited verse Deu 14:27. I cannot fathom your point.

Maybe this will help winnow some light in this very arcane discussion

read what Thallon stated and then what I stated I was answering a question
whats wrong with how I answered it is what I dont understand why you are saying it is wrong

I said I read it as follows :

The meaning of the third year is the tithe's of the first and second years was to be eaten before the Lord at the sanctuary then what was not used, the balance was given to the sanctuary.

The tithe of the third year was for the poor and the needy including the Levite' s

EM- said:
so that means tithing continues even under the New Covenant
GlennO said:
NO!!
I feel my flesh nature being brought to the surface, so I will withdraw from this thread

did you read the post I posted regarding that I did get why you were stating that ?
If you did ,you still say ,no I am wrong in my premise yet you wont show me where
so I am very confused as to where why and your premise of I am wrong

where was what I ask if in you would show me

as for tithing under the NT and the church being bound to that I believe I explained that part in the two other posts In which I thought I understood why you stated No and I agreed that for present
now would be correct however the statement about being children under the curse you made confuses me that I dont get

whatever
I get that I am misunderstood

It really does not go well for me to share my views on scriptures
I did my best to read and understand it verse by verse and what I interpret it means
to me

you still say it is wrong
you feel the discussion is Arcane
and can not fathom my point
yet if you read carefully you will see
Thallon ask a question I answered it
I dont get what your saying is wrong with the interpretation
I gave neither do I get the part about us still being
.
children of the curse and under the law.
EM said:
all of us are Children of Abraham according to Galatians 3:7
so that means tithing continues even under the New Covenant
we pay tithe which is the same as paying it to Christ
to help with the work of God
NO!!

We were also children of the curse and under the law.
Is what you told me

I get that you are saying I am wrong



If how I read Galatians and said I interpreted it is wrong
good Lord show me

GlennO said:
NO!!
I feel my flesh nature being brought to the surface, so I will withdraw from this thread

whatever is misunderstood , whatever it has to do with me and whatever I miserably failed to try to understand since you wont tell me I will leave it in God's hands and know that its not profitable to attempt getting clarity on it

[king'sbloomingrose]

EM and Glenn, y'all are both correct on doctrine. Honestly, you're (EM) correct in your interpretations of everything you said. I believe what Glenn was trying to say was that tithing does not continue under the New Covenant. Certainly it's not REQUIRED in the New Covenant (as it was in the old), but is something that is done out of love for the Lord. I tithe because I want to, not because He's forcing me to do it.

Here's something I read that may clarify:

The Old Testament is no longer the religious law governing mankind, and tithing has not been reinstated in the New Testament (Romans 7:6-7; Ephesians 2:15; Colossians 2:14).

The churches of Christ, though, are obligated to follow the divine will for funding religious activity. There are a number of religious activities indicated in the New Testament that may require the church to spend money. The New Testament authorizes the Lord's church to financially support preachers of the Gospel (1 Corinthians 9:4-14, direct statement). The New Testament authorizes the Lord's church to financially support elders (1 Timothy 5:17-18, direct statement). The New Testament authorizes the Lord's church to financially support widows who have no other recourse for their livelihood (1 Timothy 5:3-16, direct statement). The New Testament authorizes the Lord's church to financially support evangelism in its own community or other communities (2 Corinthians 11:8; Philippians 4:14-16, direct statement). The New Testament authorizes the Lord's church to financially provide for its own edification (1 Corinthians 14:12, 26, divine implication). The New Testament authorizes the Lord's church to financially assist Christians and non-Christians who need benevolent relief (Galatians 6:10; 2 Corinthians 9:13; Matthew 5:43-48, direct statement). Anything not specifically stated in the New Testament, not a part of evangelism, edification or benevolence and not otherwise authorized by direct statements, approved examples or divine implication is not something on which the Lord's money may be spent.

Freewill giving is the only means authorized in the New Testament for funding religious activity.

Hope that helps to clarify!

[mattfivefour]

EM and Glenn, y'all are both correct on doctrine. Honestly, you're (EM) correct in your interpretations of everything you said. I believe what Glenn was trying to say was that tithing does not continue under the New Covenant. Certainly it's not REQUIRED in the New Covenant (as it was in the old), but is something that is done out of love for the Lord. I tithe because I want to, not because He's forcing me to do it.

Here's something I read that may clarify:

The Old Testament is no longer the religious law governing mankind, and tithing has not been reinstated in the New Testament (Romans 7:6-7; Ephesians 2:15; Colossians 2:14).

The churches of Christ, though, are obligated to follow the divine will for funding religious activity. There are a number of religious activities indicated in the New Testament that may require the church to spend money. The New Testament authorizes the Lord's church to financially support preachers of the Gospel (1 Corinthians 9:4-14, direct statement). The New Testament authorizes the Lord's church to financially support elders (1 Timothy 5:17-18, direct statement). The New Testament authorizes the Lord's church to financially support widows who have no other recourse for their livelihood (1 Timothy 5:3-16, direct statement). The New Testament authorizes the Lord's church to financially support evangelism in its own community or other communities (2 Corinthians 11:8; Philippians 4:14-16, direct statement). The New Testament authorizes the Lord's church to financially provide for its own edification (1 Corinthians 14:12, 26, divine implication). The New Testament authorizes the Lord's church to financially assist Christians and non-Christians who need benevolent relief (Galatians 6:10; 2 Corinthians 9:13; Matthew 5:43-48, direct statement). Anything not specifically stated in the New Testament, not a part of evangelism, edification or benevolence and not otherwise authorized by direct statements, approved examples or divine implication is not something on which the Lord's money may be spent.

Freewill giving is the only means authorized in the New Testament for funding religious activity.

Hope that helps to clarify!

Excellent input, Holly!

[Elijah's Mantle]

God Bless you real big KBR for your input
I never intended that people would assume
from what I had to state that tithing was a requirement
or that it continues in the NT by the (law)
that I understand fully and said
tithing was not given in the law as some may suppose it was
yet maybe explained my conclusion poorly to GlennO and is his reason
for rejecting the premise I gave from the word of God I dont know
yet the word of God does not contradict what is written in it
If anything it edifies what is stated

we do give by freewill the only means authorized in the New Testament
for funding religious activity. I totally agree KBR

The OT was never meant to be in conflict with the NT
however it always arises when discussing certain topics
Im not sure of all the reasons why that is

I only know scripture edifies and upholds the foundation of faith
even under the OT which does not dispute the NT
to me it edifies itself and I understand one Testament was always superior
even in Abraham's day as noted which in no way makes our Blessings contained in
Galatians mute and in no way imposes a law of tithing upon any one
we are under God's plan of Amazing Grace

[GaryArnold]

First, there were three different tithes with three different definitions and three different purposes.

Leviticus 27:30-33, Numbers 18: The First Tithe - a tenth of crops and animals and commanded to take the tithe to the Levites.

Deuteronomy 14:22-27: The Second Tithe aka The Festival Tithe - a tenth of crops, plus add to that the firstborn animals, and take for the yearly feast.

Deuteronomy 14:28-29: The Third Tithe aka The Three-Year Tithe aka The Poor Tithe - a tenth of crops, kept at home, and invite the Levites, widows, orphans, stranger to eat.

The ONLY people in the Old Testament that were commanded to tithe were those who INHERITED THE PROMISED LAND WITH EVERYTHING ON IT. They got the land, house, animals, crops, etc. ALL FREE AND CLEAR. No mortgage payment or rent to pay. And THEY were commanded to tithe on the crops and animals and take it to the Levites who INHERITED the tithe INSTEAD OF the promised land with everything on it. No one else tithed. Wage earners did not tithe. Jesus didn’t tithe. Paul didn’t tithe. Peter didn’t tithe.

Let’s look closely at Abram’s tithe. First, the goods that Abram gave the tenth from didn’t even belong to Abram:

Genesis 14:21 (KJV) - And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself.

Notice in verse 21 the king of Sodom didn’t ask Abram if he would give back to him the people, but rather said GIVE ME the people and keep the goods for yourself. The way that is worded indicates that the king of Sodom was claiming that the people and the goods belonged to him, but he offered the goods to Abram.

It would normally have been the custom that the victor owns the spoils, but normally the spoils would have belonged to the enemy. In this case, Abram was RECOVERING goods belonging to the King of Sodom.

NOTE: The king of Sodom had an original right both to the persons and to the goods, and it would bear a debate whether Abram’s acquired right by rescue would supersede his title and extinguish it; but, to prevent all quarrels, the king of Sodom makes this fair proposal (v. 21).
--Should the Church Teach Tithing by Dr. Russell Earl Kelly, pages 24-25

Genesis 14:22-24 (KJV)
22And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,
23That I will not take from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:
24Save only that which the young men have eaten, and the portion of the men which went with me, Aner, Eshcol, and Mamre; let them take their portion.

Notice in verses 23 and 24 Abram also acknowledges that the goods belonged to the king of Sodom. But the king of Sodam offered that Abram could keep the goods for himself. Abram declined the offer. He didn’t want man to take credit for his wealth. By not accepting any of the goods for himself, Abram was putting all his faith in God to provide for him rather than man.

Therefore, it is clear that both the king of Sodom and Abram acknowledged that the spoils of war did NOT belong to Abram, yet he gave a tenth of the spoils to King Melchizedek. This would seem that Abram did something wrong, if not even illegal, but Biblical historians agree that it was custom in Abram's day to give the king a tenth of the war spoils. Had Abram not given the tenth, he would have gone against custom.

Conclusion: Abram did NOT give a tenth of his income, or his wealth. Abram gave a tenth of the spoils of war that didn’t belong to him and declined to keep the goods offered to him. That is NOT an example of tithing for Christians to follow today. By declining to keep any of the goods for himself, Abram showed his faith that God would provide. That is the example of faith that Christians should be following. Furthermore, the law did NOT require a tenth of war spoils to be given, so to say that tithing was before the law and then in the law is not true. What Abram did was NOT even codified into the later law.

NO Christian Church taught tithing on one's income until 1870. Those who teach that tithing is required of Christians are false teachers.

[jesuschangesall]

First, there were three different tithes with three different definitions and three different purposes.

Leviticus 27:30-33, Numbers 18: The First Tithe - a tenth of crops and animals and commanded to take the tithe to the Levites.

Deuteronomy 14:22-27: The Second Tithe aka The Festival Tithe - a tenth of crops, plus add to that the firstborn animals, and take for the yearly feast.

Deuteronomy 14:28-29: The Third Tithe aka The Three-Year Tithe aka The Poor Tithe - a tenth of crops, kept at home, and invite the Levites, widows, orphans, stranger to eat.

The ONLY people in the Old Testament that were commanded to tithe were those who INHERITED THE PROMISED LAND WITH EVERYTHING ON IT. They got the land, house, animals, crops, etc. ALL FREE AND CLEAR. No mortgage payment or rent to pay. And THEY were commanded to tithe on the crops and animals and take it to the Levites who INHERITED the tithe INSTEAD OF the promised land with everything on it. No one else tithed. Wage earners did not tithe. Jesus didn’t tithe. Paul didn’t tithe. Peter didn’t tithe.

Let’s look closely at Abram’s tithe. First, the goods that Abram gave the tenth from didn’t even belong to Abram:

Genesis 14:21 (KJV) - And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself.

Notice in verse 21 the king of Sodom didn’t ask Abram if he would give back to him the people, but rather said GIVE ME the people and keep the goods for yourself. The way that is worded indicates that the king of Sodom was claiming that the people and the goods belonged to him, but he offered the goods to Abram.

It would normally have been the custom that the victor owns the spoils, but normally the spoils would have belonged to the enemy. In this case, Abram was RECOVERING goods belonging to the King of Sodom.

NOTE: The king of Sodom had an original right both to the persons and to the goods, and it would bear a debate whether Abram’s acquired right by rescue would supersede his title and extinguish it; but, to prevent all quarrels, the king of Sodom makes this fair proposal (v. 21).
--Should the Church Teach Tithing by Dr. Russell Earl Kelly, pages 24-25

Genesis 14:22-24 (KJV)
22And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,
23That I will not take from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:
24Save only that which the young men have eaten, and the portion of the men which went with me, Aner, Eshcol, and Mamre; let them take their portion.

Notice in verses 23 and 24 Abram also acknowledges that the goods belonged to the king of Sodom. But the king of Sodam offered that Abram could keep the goods for himself. Abram declined the offer. He didn’t want man to take credit for his wealth. By not accepting any of the goods for himself, Abram was putting all his faith in God to provide for him rather than man.

Therefore, it is clear that both the king of Sodom and Abram acknowledged that the spoils of war did NOT belong to Abram, yet he gave a tenth of the spoils to King Melchizedek. This would seem that Abram did something wrong, if not even illegal, but Biblical historians agree that it was custom in Abram's day to give the king a tenth of the war spoils. Had Abram not given the tenth, he would have gone against custom.

Conclusion: Abram did NOT give a tenth of his income, or his wealth. Abram gave a tenth of the spoils of war that didn’t belong to him and declined to keep the goods offered to him. That is NOT an example of tithing for Christians to follow today. By declining to keep any of the goods for himself, Abram showed his faith that God would provide. That is the example of faith that Christians should be following. Furthermore, the law did NOT require a tenth of war spoils to be given, so to say that tithing was before the law and then in the law is not true. What Abram did was NOT even codified into the later law.

NO Christian Church taught tithing on one's income until 1870. Those who teach that tithing is required of Christians are false teachers.

I could not agree more.
If we profess and confess to LIVE BY FAITH in OUR SOVEREIGN LORD,how can we DARE to even THINK that WE CAN BUY HIS BLESSINGS BY TITHING???
THOSE who PREACH and PRACTICE THE TITHE are CURSING THE CHURCH....

JESUS TAUGHT ABOUT GIVING...YES and HE GAVE ALL....
LET's FOLLOW HIM and NOT this plethora of teachers that MAKE YOU PAY THE AIR YOU BREATH!
THIS SAID...SHALOM to EVERYONE!