Secular Music in the Church Endangers Sacredness? (Tommy Sparger & Craig Groeschel 's and churches
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    billiefan2000 is online now Citizen

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    Default Secular Music in the Church Endangers Sacredness? (Tommy Sparger & Craig Groeschel 's and churches

    Secular Music in the Church Endangers Sacredness?, Christian News

    By Brittany Smith , Christian Post Reporter
    February 15, 2012|6:59 pm
    A New Jersey megachurch's latest effort to better engage with culture by embracing some of pop culture's most popular songs reignites the debate over whether churches should utilize secular music to be relevant.
    While Liquid Church is using songs like Adele's "Rolling in the Deep" and Bruno Mars' "Grenade" as part of its "Pop God" sermon series this month, some point to the danger that lies in "using cultural mediums to transfer sacred messages."

    Dr. John Hardin, a writer for 9Marks, a Washington, D.C. organization that helps "church leaders define success as faithfulness to God," cautioned in an email to The Christian Post that "the methods and the messages carry with them the DNA of the culture from which they were taken."

    By embracing the methods of the world, pastors end up embracing the values and the meanings of the world. Hardin, a former college pastor, said that ultimately they may surrender the sacredness of their church, and "the sacred ceases to be that which is set apart, when it is framed in that which is perhaps all too near."

    Liquid Church kicked off its "Pop God" series this past Sunday with the worship team leading the congregation in singing "Rolling in the Deep."

    Rich Birch, spokesperson for Liquid, told CP this week that the Christian subculture is fairly disconnected to the broader world, so Liquid Church is trying "to redeem the culture through those four songs" (the other two are songs by the Foo-Fighters and Cee Lo Green).

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    Birch said that the idea behind "Pop God" stems from a "long Christian tradition of redeeming, rather than rejecting art, and finding ways to find a connection to our current culture." Jonathan Edwards did the same thing, he pointed out, by taking bar room drinking songs and putting religious lyrics to them.

    Hardin, however, noted, "Jonathan Edwards did write of the 'lewd songs' sung in taverns there is little to demonstrate that he adapted such songs for churches."

    John Wesley and Martin Luther may have indeed also provided sacred words for secular tunes, said Hardin, "but such practices are by no means a 'long Christian tradition.'"

    Brett McCracken, author of Hipster Christianity: When Church & Cool Collide, believes initiatives like Liquid's stem from the fact that many churches feel pressure because young people are leaving in record numbers. Because of that they look for ways to "rebrand the church as more friendly to culture."

    However, he cautioned, "when you attract people under these pretenses, and use gimmicky things," keeping them engaged becomes critical. If a church is selling something to get people in the door, there has to be something substantial in terms of discipleship to keep them.

    "As Christian, we should focus on quality songs that are well crafted and honest in their lyrics, and theologically rich," McCracken said. He said much of that has been lost as we have moved away from hymns, many of which were "rich and theologically built into the narrative of the music."

    His hope, he told CP, is that Christians "can recover the art of being excellent craftspeople and create music that is so good that Christians don't have to look to the secular world to get their worship experience."
    http://prayerlistforrockstars.blogspot.com/
    http://www.hollywoodprayernetwork.org
    http://www.jewsforjesus.org


    For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also (Matthew 6:21)

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    billiefan2000 is online now Citizen

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    Default Re: Secular Music in the Church Endangers Sacredness? (Tommy Sparger & Craig Groeschel 's and churc

    related posts:


    (aka seeker driven worship in the churches)




    Tommy Sparger

    Northpoint Thriller? (aka more Tommy Sparger seeker driven madness


    and:


















    ex-WCA church in Omaha meets Gilligan's Island theme song

    ex-WCA church in Omaha meets Gilligan's Island theme song (wish I was joking)






    Church by the Glades in Florida


    Circus Church...Literally (AKA Church Circus by the Glades IN Florida)




    Move Over Worship Time, The seeker driven Monsters are Coming to Getcha








    this is worship time at Dino Rizzo 's church???

    Ultimate Love Songs on Vimeo & this is worship time at Dino Rizzo 's church???



    Willow Creek Association Pastor Craig Groeschel 's church in Oklahoma


    willow creek association pastor rips Perry Noble off by playing AC/DC music on super bowl sunday


















    Mark Beeson's Granger Church in Indiana state (also a willow creek association church btw)


    http://www.raptureforums.com/forum/a...s-beyonce.html



    Relevant Church in Tampa Florida area







    and I could post many other examples, but you get the idea


    of the seeker madness/secular worship becoming the worship at many churches across the country

    infected with the Hybels virus as I call it.
    Last edited by billiefan2000; February-19th-2012 at 04:15 PM.
    http://prayerlistforrockstars.blogspot.com/
    http://www.hollywoodprayernetwork.org
    http://www.jewsforjesus.org


    For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also (Matthew 6:21)

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    Jared Hanley is offline New Member!

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    Default Re: Secular Music in the Church Endangers Sacredness? (Tommy Sparger & Craig Groeschel 's and churc

    I only listen to Christian music. I hear a lot of other music intentionally and unintentionally. But, I don't understand using secular music in church. I left the Christian university that I attended the first two semesters of college for this very reason.

    I think the devil uses reason to get us to compromise. It sounds reasonable to think that we could reach the world with secular music. But, the reality is that the world is not drawn to the church when we're just like them. The world is drawn to the church when we are counter-cultural. The world is only drawn to the Christ and His church by the Spirit. If we are like the world, then we won't have an anointing that will draw people to Christ.

    That's why when I was working through a lot of these issues, I found a lot of strength from listening to Reformed preachers like John Piper, Voddie Baucham, Mark Dever, and Al Mohler. A lot of the Pentecostal preachers dropped the ball when it came to dealing with postmodernism. Most of them were either caving into it or evading the issue altogether.

    As providence would have it, John Piper held a conference dealing with postmodernism right at the time that I was struggling with a lot of those issues back in 2006.
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    Thumbs down Re: Secular Music in the Church Endangers Sacredness? (Tommy Sparger & Craig Groeschel 's and churc

    The funny thing to me about a lot of this is that not only is it compromise but it usually ends up being really corny too. I thought it was supposed to be "relevant".

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    Default Re: Secular Music in the Church Endangers Sacredness? (Tommy Sparger & Craig Groeschel 's and churc

    Quote Originally Posted by Jared Hanley View Post
    I only listen to Christian music. I hear a lot of other music intentionally and unintentionally. But, I don't understand using secular music in church. I left the Christian university that I attended the first two semesters of college for this very reason.

    I think the devil uses reason to get us to compromise. It sounds reasonable to think that we could reach the world with secular music. But, the reality is that the world is not drawn to the church when we're just like them. The world is drawn to the church when we are counter-cultural. The world is only drawn to the Christ and His church by the Spirit. If we are like the world, then we won't have an anointing that will draw people to Christ.

    That's why when I was working through a lot of these issues, I found a lot of strength from listening to Reformed preachers like John Piper, Voddie Baucham, Mark Dever, and Al Mohler. A lot of the Pentecostal preachers dropped the ball when it came to dealing with postmodernism. Most of them were either caving into it or evading the issue altogether.

    As providence would have it, John Piper held a conference dealing with postmodernism right at the time that I was struggling with a lot of those issues back in 2006.
    I saw the same thing to some extent in a Baptist church I went to - it taught a mix of Pentecostal/charismatic theology, seeker driven marketing, and social gospel. There was not much attempt in the younger generation going deeper into the Word and explaining the salvation in Jesus. Most people were trying to ride on the tide that is postmodernism - Josh McDowell is discarded in preference to Max Lucado. The trouble comes when New Atheism of Richard Dawkins variety comes up - the church can't offer much materials to engage with the absolutist terms Dawkins etc espouses.

    I understand this problem is endemic within the Pentecostal/charismatic tradition. I've met Christians from my current church who grew up in Pentecostal churches, but then left for Reformed churches during university or initial stages of their careers, and for worse heard tales of many people who grew up in these movements and now consider themselves no longer Christians when they left for university. I don't see such an extent of forsaking the faith among the classical evangelicals or Reformed traditions.
    Last edited by JoelH; February-18th-2012 at 12:31 AM.

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    Default Re: Secular Music in the Church Endangers Sacredness? (Tommy Sparger & Craig Groeschel 's and churc

    Quote Originally Posted by Jared Hanley View Post
    The funny thing to me about a lot of this is that not only is it compromise but it usually ends up being really corny too. I thought it was supposed to be "relevant".
    you are so right a lot of what seeker churches does is corny.
    http://prayerlistforrockstars.blogspot.com/
    http://www.hollywoodprayernetwork.org
    http://www.jewsforjesus.org


    For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also (Matthew 6:21)

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    Default Re: Secular Music in the Church Endangers Sacredness? (Tommy Sparger & Craig Groeschel 's and churc

    A shame and disgraceful.
    Last edited by Ducati; February-19th-2012 at 12:55 AM.
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    Default Re: Secular Music in the Church Endangers Sacredness? (Tommy Sparger & Craig Groeschel 's and churc

    JMHO but I don't think secular music has any place in church. Call me old fashioned or whatever, but AC/DC, Metallica, etc. have no place in the church.

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    Default Re: Secular Music in the Church Endangers Sacredness? (Tommy Sparger & Craig Groeschel 's and churc

    Quote Originally Posted by Ducati View Post
    And quote, "christians" still want to condemn this wonderful man.

    A shame and disgraceful.

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    that is all well and good but not without difficulties and self focus and problems... see Jimmy Swaggart's Very Crooked Halo
    True peace is not the absence of pain or suffering but only found in full surrender to the King of Kings

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    Default Re: Secular Music in the Church Endangers Sacredness? (Tommy Sparger & Craig Groeschel 's and churc

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    JMHO but I don't think secular music has any place in church. Call me old fashioned or whatever, but AC/DC, Metallica, etc. have no place in the church.
    I agree chris
    http://prayerlistforrockstars.blogspot.com/
    http://www.hollywoodprayernetwork.org
    http://www.jewsforjesus.org


    For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also (Matthew 6:21)

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    Default Re: Secular Music in the Church Endangers Sacredness? (Tommy Sparger & Craig Groeschel 's and churc

    Thanks, but I'll stick to my christian rap that gives glory to God while teaching theology and making you think.

    If it's not about Christ, I really don't even want to listen to it.

    Like a favorite rapper of mine KB said, (paraphrase) "You don't know what an obsession is until you know God."

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    Default Re: Secular Music in the Church Endangers Sacredness? (Tommy Sparger & Craig Groeschel 's and churc

    Quote Originally Posted by peacebringer View Post
    that is all well and good but not without difficulties and self focus and problems... see Jimmy Swaggart's Very Crooked Halo

    I've seen that already.

    David had one too but he was a man after Gods own heart.

    Don't let this side track the topic.

    Sorry for my post.

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    I been in the secular music biz for 23 years and I can tell you this secular music has a hypnosis effect that creates crowds to worship Satan I have seen it I have felt it and have been around it. Playing secular music in church invited Satan to take control of that church.

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    Default Re: Secular Music in the Church Endangers Sacredness? (Tommy Sparger & Craig Groeschel 's and churc

    I agree with WordDivine on this and those others who criticized the bringing of the world into the Church. But this is what churches stoop o when they do not really believe the Word of God and have neither the true gospel nor the power of the Holy Spirit operating in their members or their midst.
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    Even the chosen will be deceived

    And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. (Matthew 24:4, 5 KJV)

    For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. (Matthew 24:24 KJV)

    For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. (Mark 13:22, 23 KJV)

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    Default Re: Secular Music in the Church Endangers Sacredness? (Tommy Sparger & Craig Groeschel 's and churc

    I'm familiar with Christian rock and rap in the Church and in the pulpit but never have I seen the actual songs of well known secular artists being preformed by "church" members. Why not brake out the booze and drugs and the lighters, through some smoke makers in while your at it...if your gonna do it, do it right.

    Wow.
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    Default Re: Secular Music in the Church Endangers Sacredness? (Tommy Sparger & Craig Groeschel 's and churc

    Quote Originally Posted by Ducati View Post
    I'm familiar with Christian rock and rap in the Church and in the pulpit but never have I seen the actual songs of well known secular artists being preformed by "church" members. Why not brake out the booze and drugs and the lighters, through some smoke makers in while your at it...if your gonna do it, do it right.

    Wow.
    I don't know how to break it to you, bro ... but they already have a lot of that in churches today. Two Sundays ago I was in a formerly biblically sound church for the first time in a few years and was shocked to see lasers, strobes and smoke machines surrounding the "worship" performers, er I mean "leaders".
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    Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity. (1 Timothy 4:12 KJV)
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    Jared Hanley is offline New Member!

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    Default Re: Secular Music in the Church Endangers Sacredness? (Tommy Sparger & Craig Groeschel 's and churc

    Quote Originally Posted by WordDivine View Post
    Even the chosen will be deceived

    And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. (Matthew 24:4, 5 KJV)

    For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. (Matthew 24:24 KJV)

    For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. (Mark 13:22, 23 KJV)
    I don't want to sidetrack this thread. But, Jesus did not say the elect would be deceived. He said that false prophets would be so convincing that if it were possible the elect would be deceived. The elect are kept by God. They can never finally fall away but will persevere to the end in godliness which is proof that they are being kept by God.

    Anyway, that's another topic for another thread. But, I just wanted to throw that out there.
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    Default Re: Secular Music in the Church Endangers Sacredness? (Tommy Sparger & Craig Groeschel 's and churc

    Quote Originally Posted by mattfivefour View Post
    I don't know how to break it to you, bro ... but they already have a lot of that in churches today. Two Sundays ago I was in a formerly biblically sound church for the first time in a few years and was shocked to see lasers, strobes and smoke machines surrounding the "worship" performers, er I mean "leaders".
    Its a good thing I don't attend a local church....I'd probably be the odd man out.

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