Father' and 'Son' Ousted from the Trinity in New Bible Translations

[arapahoepark]

Dear Brother, you are so correct!! To answer your first question and to be quite blunt, it is because that is what she has been taught in College. From what I have seen and witnessed,many of today's colleges and seminaries (NOT ALL, at least those that know there is a problem with some teachers) are in a rut because of tenure policies. Liberalism has been around a long time in the world but really picked up steam in American Christian universities in the 60's and 70's. What happened is it became Politically Correct to support evolution "theistically," free choice, and other unscriptural biases to include the Documentary hypothesis as a way to prove the Bible we have is really not inspired like we are told. They even go as far as taking myth such as "the Gilgamesh Epic" as more truthful that the creation and flood accounts in Scripture. They do this because, again, they do not believe in the inspiration of Scripture. They believe the Bibles authors borrowed what is written from pagan culture. It is a shame. I feel this is done because they really have never had an experience with God or they just are unbelievers in disguise. That said, it is easy for young adults (impressionable) who find going on to Bible college and seminary as a high ideal, become enamored with these scholars. As a result they graduate spewing forth the same stuff they were taught.

Josh McDowell wrote "Evidence that Demands a Verdict" vols. 1 & 2 to fight against this very thing. He has a new book out now called "The Unshakable Truth" that is also worth a read. Here is a link to some downloads -->Free Book Downloads-JMM I have not read them all but I have read a lot of his stuff and his testimony for becoming a Christian is amazing

When I went to College and took Seminary instruction, I knew ahead of time "Whom I believed" and no scholar this side of heaven could tell me anything otherwise. When Christ came into my life and Baptized me in the Spirit He made Himself so real to me that nothing will ever be able to shake my opinion otherwise. I believe every Word written that has been passed down through the ages to us today is indeed the pure truth. I have no time for those who choose to tear it down. I told my professors straight up at the beginning of classes that if I disagreed with theology I would respectfully state why and would back it up with clear contextual usage of the Scripture. They agreed that if I could back it up in a convincing manner they would not downgrade me. They held true to their promises and I graduated with very high scores even if they disagreed.

What I learned was what not to learn and in the process became more spiritually discerning than ever. God promises us that if we will faithfully trust Him and hold true to Scripture He will hold true to bringing favor into our lives.

Wycliffe translators and others are not all bad. It seems in this case that the wrong people are in the positions of leadership and the decisions being made are not from a pure hearts love for God. We need to pray for them. Last year I had a run in with a Greek Professor from a very popular Seminary in IL. I was at a Mens evangelistic event and dinner and he sat down across a table from me. I had a friend who I was sharing Christ with and we were enthusiastically looking at some Scripture. The Bible I was using was a NKJV. Out of the Blue this professor (Who I did not know) started ripping my Bible to pieces. He said why in the world am I trying to read from that piece of trash. He then reached over looked at my NT and pushed it back at me across the table. I said something to the effect of "I beg your pardon." He said I am a Greek professor, Dr. so and so and that translation comes from faulty manuscripts full of error. I said, "Oh really, What one do you read?" He said, "NIV?" and went on about how it is the only correct version. I then, as nicely as I could, said, "Well the manuscript that version is based upon is only partially complete. Most of the text (uncial) was used by monks to start fireplaces in St. Catherine's monastery. So how can you tell me it is the correct version?" I then proceeded to tell him I studied Greek in college as well. He was taken back, because I knew of the history of the MS and did not have a come back, he just walked away. But it is people like that that can ruin students if they are themselves unsure of what they believe. Personally, I think there are too many translations in English and it has become a money making game by publishers. When I read from a version of Scripture part of the congregation cannot follow because their translation words it so differently, Some even miss the reading all together trying to find where I am at. Some may disagree, but I think Satan can use that to his advantage. All of that said it depends on who you read when you take a stand upon which version to use. More and more light has been shed upon the opinion that the Alexandrian MS Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus (used in NIV) may not be the oldest and that Byzantine texts are found to be just as old making some suggest the two cited may be heretical since 5000+ MSS of the Byz. exist compared to two of the two mentioned.

Sorry to get long-winded and even go off-topic some, but I hold the Scripture very dear to my heart and defiling it in anyway turns my stomach, so what Wycliffe is doing God will judge.

God Bless!!!

One last thing, "Can I use the NIV to lead someone to Christ?" Certainly I can. I was just using it as an example of controversy. cp. Acts 8:35-38 for one example.

Ah, I see. Liberalism...eh don't even get me started on the subject. Unfortunately, in college the liberal professors always say challenge your beliefs (in other words conservatives think like liberals) but not the other way around. So they are spoon fed the other side, not realizing there is so much more to the conservative side.
I had tried this numerous times trying to accept evolution, Biologos and the like. I always come out with the same conclusion, you can't be consistent and come out a true Christian. Not to mention all the straw men they use for the other side. They don't even bother to quote the other side! Like I have said and will say again logical fallacies, especially straw men are my biggest pet peeve. They don't realize there is so much more airing on the side of creation, Biblical truth and the like. The Documentary hypothesis has been debunked, yet it is taught as if it is new, and there is no evidence what so ever for it.

Like evolution I liken it to the Tim Master's case. Master's was a teenage goth boy in Colorado who collected knives and drew weird pictures, yet a nice guy. His house was about a mile from this bloody crime scene. Their evidence was hardly circumstantial, it revolved around his being goth and a very vague drawing of someone being dragged. This was assumed to be a recreation of the crime. Also many evidences were suppressed by the detective like his alibi. in short he was convicted of the crime. It sounds like a no brainer, until you find out the victim was cut up by a professional...and it turns out someone who lived closer nearby was a convicted sex offender who was an eye surgeon....many years later Tim was released, since there was no DNA evidence or really anything else tying him to the crime.

Sound anything like what is being taught in school and seminaries nowadays?

[mikhen7]

Also, as a Turkish Pastor in Izmir wrote when he signed the petition: “I am a Turkish Pastor and I don't wan't to use this wrong translation in my church. How dare they can publish such a wrong translation and distribute it in my country? Already Muslims in my country believe that the Bible is changed by men and these mission agencies are making it harder for us!” This is true. One of the tenets of Islam is that man has changed the true wording of God's Word and that is why God gave the Qur'an So by chang9ing His Word in the present Wycliffe is actually lending credence to the Muslim claim that it was also done in the past. Has none of them at Wycliffe stopped to think of that???

Shameful!!!

[mikhen7]

Ah, I see. Liberalism...eh don't even get me started on the subject. Unfortunately, in college the liberal professors always say challenge your beliefs (in other words conservatives think like liberals) but not the other way around. So they are spoon fed the other side, not realizing there is so much more to the conservative side.
I had tried this numerous times trying to accept evolution, Biologos and the like. I always come out with the same conclusion, you can't be consistent and come out a true Christian. Not to mention all the straw men they use for the other side. They don't even bother to quote the other side! Like I have said and will say again logical fallacies, especially straw men are my biggest pet peeve. They don't realize there is so much more airing on the side of creation, Biblical truth and the like. The Documentary hypothesis has been debunked, yet it is taught as if it is new, and there is no evidence what so ever for it.

Like evolution I liken it to the Tim Master's case. Master's was a teenage goth boy in Colorado who collected knives and drew weird pictures, yet a nice guy. His house was about a mile from this bloody crime scene. Their evidence was hardly circumstantial, it revolved around his being goth and a very vague drawing of someone being dragged. This was assumed to be a recreation of the crime. Also many evidences were suppressed by the detective like his alibi. in short he was convicted of the crime. It sounds like a no brainer, until you find out the victim was cut up by a professional...and it turns out someone who lived closer nearby was a convicted sex offender who was an eye surgeon....many years later Tim was released, since there was no DNA evidence or really anything else tying him to the crime.

Sound anything like what is being taught in school and seminaries nowadays?

Unfortunately, some still do not think DH has been debunked!! God bless you !!! Stay strong! Fight the Good Fight!!! Stand on the promise!!! Praise God!!