FFTF radio host threatened at Elephant Room event of James MacDonald 's

[billiefan2000]

Threatened with Arrest at the Elephant RoomToday, I traveled to Rowling Meadows, Illinois to attend James MacDonald's Elephant Room 2 conversations. Upon entering the event venue I was met by a security guard and Jim Rowan, an elder at Harvest Bible Chapel and was promptly told that my entrance to the Elephant Room had been revoked and that I had to immediately leave the premises or I would be arrested for trespassing.

This is truly ODD, because the Purpose Statement of the Elephant Room states:

The Elephant Room is more than an event. It is the outgrowth of an idea. The idea that the best way forward for the followers of Jesus lies not in crouching behind walls of disagreement but in conversation among all kinds of leaders about what the scriptures actually teach. We must insist on the biblical Gospel, right doctrine and practice but not isolate ourselves from relationship even with those who believe much differently. So, I ask the very logical question how is threatening to arrest me if I didn't leave the premises of the Elephant Room an example of NOT "crouching behind walls of disagreement"?

Seems to me that the Elephant in the Room is the fact that the ONLY voices that James MacDonald and company are willing to hear are those that agree with them.



Threatened with Arrest at the Elephant Room - Letter of Marque

[billiefan2000]

CHRIS ROSEBROUGH AND ERIN BENZIGER NOT ALLOWED INTO ELEPHANT ROOM 2
By Ken Silva pastor-teacher on Jan 25, 2012 in Current Issues

“By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” (John 13:35)

Well, I Guess, Unless They Have A Different Opinion

Apprising Ministries has some rather startling information concerning the Elephant Room 2 conference set to begin today. That is, my friends Chris Rosebrough and Erin Benziger were not allowed in.

Sure, the Purpose Statement at the ER website says:

The Elephant Room is more than an event. It is the outgrowth of an idea. The idea that the best way forward for the followers of Jesus lies not in crouching behind walls of disagreement but in conversation among all kinds of leaders about what the scriptures actually teach. We must insist on the biblical Gospel, right doctrine and practice but not isolate ourselves from relationship even with those who believe much differently.

These are conversations about the most Christ honoring ways of building a church. Our goal is unity, however a true unity cannot be fashioned in pretense or denial of truth nor can it be won among those who prefer sectarianism to the unity Jesus prayed for…

No Wavering.
No Sidestepping.
No Excuses. (Online source)

So, you can imagine my surprise when Chris Rosebrough of Pirate Christian Radio called to tell me that he and Erin Benziger, a special correspondent of Apprising Ministries were not going to be allowed into ER2.

As they went into the Harvest Bible Chapel Rolling Meadows Campus, which serves as the main campus of this church where James MacDonald serves as Prophet-Führer, they were pulled aside by security and told their registration had been revoked.

Then they were told they must leave the property “immediately.” I was actually on the phone with Chris as he told Jim Rowan, an elder at HBC, that he was a member of the media and that HBC was making a mistake by not allowing him in.

Rosebrough told Rowan that he was going to have to let the wider church know how he and Benziger, as a Christian brother and sister, had been treated by their fellow Christians. I myself heard Rowan say, “Thank you for the threat.”

Obviously, that isn’t a threat so Rosebrough told Rowan it was merely a promise because of this non-Christian conduct. I was still on the phone and I personally heard Rowan tell Rosebrough they:

had called the police and if you don’t leave, I will have you arrested.

One of the subjects for ER2 tonight is James MacDonald and his bro Prophet-Führer Steven Furtick discussing the right way to handle critics. Well, later tonight that ought to be a real hoot.

And here’s another promise; stay tuned, this is far from over.



CHRIS ROSEBROUGH AND ERIN BENZIGER NOT ALLOWED INTO ELEPHANT ROOM 2 : Apprising Ministries

[BuzzardHut]

So what are those demons up to in that Elephant Room?

[billiefan2000]

Running scared: why is The Elephant Room afraid of scrutiny?


James MacDonald of The Elephant Room has already taken more than one hit this week, having been pushed to resign from The Gospel Coalition for being unwilling to rescind his invitation to modalist T.D. Jakes.



Dan Phillips of the Pyromaniacs immediately weighed-in with his article, Even better than The Race Card™.

Phillips called out MacDonald for implicitly claiming divine authority, and for MacDonald’s accusing The Gospel Coalition’s leadership of sin for disagreeing with him.

Today, MacDonald has given his critics yet more ammunition, even before his conversation with T.D. Jakes.



Chris Rosebrough writes on his Letter of Marque blog:


Today, I traveled to Rowling Meadows, Illinois to attend James MacDonald’s Elephant Room 2 conversations. Upon entering the event venue I was met by a security guard and Jim Rowan,

an elder at Harvest Bible Chapel and was promptly told that my entrance to the Elephant Room had been revoked and that I had to immediately leave the premises or I would be arrested for trespassing.


Erin Benziger recounts a similar story on her Do Not Be Surprised blog:


About 45 minutes ago, a friend and I walked through the doors of Harvest Bible Chapel in Rolling Meadows, IL. Why?


To attend The Elephant Room 2, of course! Upon approaching the registration desk, the volunteers noticed that they could not find my name tag.


I was ushered to the side, where I was confronted by Harvest Bible Chapel elder Jim Rowan and told that my registration had been revoked and refunded and that I was to leave the premises immediately.


Hm, so now what is the elephant in the room?



This is The Elephant Room’s ‘Purpose Statement’:


The Elephant Room is more than an event. It is the outgrowth of an idea.


The idea that the best way forward for the followers of Jesus lies not in crouching behind walls of disagreement but in conversation among all kinds of leaders about what the scriptures actually teach.

We must insist on the biblical Gospel, right doctrine and practice but not isolate ourselves from relationship even with those who believe much differently.



Why, then, is the Elephant Room turning away at the door and threatening with arrest independent apologists who have pre-registered and travelled to attend?


Why do they think fellowship with modalist T.D. Jakes is acceptable, but not that with orthodox Christians contending for the true Gospel and the Faith once delivered?



Chris Rosebrough’s observation is apposite:


Seems to me that the Elephant in the Room is the fact that the ONLY voices that James MacDonald and company are willing to hear are those that agree with them.


The Elephant Room has engaged in absolutely disgraceful, hypocritical and shameful behaviour.

Rosebrough and Benziger were not even accorded the basic courtesy of being informed of their disinvitation before they went out of their way to travel to the event.



Why are the organizers of the Elephant Room frightened of independent scrutiny? What are they hiding?


This is one story that isn’t going to go away.


Update
Ken Silva of Apprising.org was speaking to Rosebrough on the phone when Rosebrough was turned away. The details of his account underline the dishonourable conduct of those behind The Elephant Room.


Running scared: why is The Elephant Room afraid of scrutiny? « BetterThanSacrifice.org

[billiefan2000]

So what are those demons up to in that Elephant Room?

covering up something for sure, if they dont want independent voices to be heard or to speak



to those who say, we shouldnt report on false teachers or enablers covering up things or censoring folks, I would like to ask:

why the censorship at the Elephant Room and the Code Orange Rally.

[billiefan2000]

“WE CAN WORK IT OUT:” IS JAMES MACDONALD QUALIFIED TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION?
By Ken Silva pastor-teacher on Jan 25, 2012 in AM Missives, Current Issues, Features



By Apprising Ministries special correspondent Erin Benziger of Do Not Be Surprised…

There is a semi-public conversation occurring right now. I say “semi-public” because the only individuals privy to this conversation at this time are those who were willing to pay the registration fee to watch it. It’s taking place at the Elephant Room 2 (ER2), between Pastor James MacDonald of Harvest Bible Chapel, and Steven Furtick of Elevation Church. This conversation is entitled, We Can Work It Out and according to the website for the ER2, these two popular pastors are to discuss the following:

WE CAN WORK IT OUT What responsibilities do we have to local pastors who exist outside our theological boundaries, but within the body of Christ? How do you confront a brother in error while showing fidelity to truth, and to the truth about biblical relationship? Given the freedom to preach your conscience, is there anywhere you wouldn’t preach? Does a pastor’s association really communicate endorsement, or is that just a carryover from fundamentalism? How can pastors practically encourage/challenge those who are different than they are? How do the benefits of broader community weigh against the dangers of confusing people about your own convictions? STEVEN FURTICK & JAMES MACDONALD | Moderated by Mark Driscoll (Online Source)

These leading questions offer the appearance of genuine concern for Christian brotherhood, a desire to maintain a Godly focus during difficult confrontations, and a hope that a gentle, Spirit-led demeanor will be maintained throughout such an encounter. In light of recent events, this seems like a conversation worth having and worth hearing. What seems odd, however, are the two individuals who are having it.

Conservative Bible teacher and now former Gospel Coalition member James MacDonald lit the match for much controversy several months ago when he invited known Word-Faith heretic and presumed Sabellian modalist T.D. Jakes to participate in the Elephant Room 2, this very conference. Amid the swirling storm of questions and controversy from many sound, concerned Christian leaders, James MacDonald further compounded the confusion when he declared that he did not believe that T.D. Jakes was a modalist.He then caused an even greater stir when he posted a video that not only slammed his critics, but also spoke to the Elephant Room as gathering “brothers” together to have a conversation. Well, this of course raises questions. Until today, T.D. Jakes has remained relatively silent on the issue of modalism, but never once repudiated or refuted the accusation that he adheres to modalist doctrine. Today, in the session entitled, “Ticket to Ride,” the following conversation took place between Mark Driscoll and T.D. Jakes:



Driscoll: We all would agree that in the nature of God there is mystery. But within that, for you, Bishop Jakes, the issue is one God manifesting Himself successively in three ways? Or one God existing eternally in three persons? What is your understanding now? Which one?




Jakes: I believe the latter one is where I stand today. One God – Three Persons. I am not crazy about the word persons though. You describe “manifestations” as modalist, but I describe it as Pauline. For God was manifest in the flesh. Paul is not a modalist, but he doesn’t think it’s robbery to say manifest in the flesh. Maybe it’s semantics, but Paul says this. (Online Source)
If Jakes does indeed affirm the Trinity (and if he does, then that is good news), then why has he waited until now to declare this? And why didn’t Driscoll push him and ask him why he is not “crazy about the word persons?” Simply pointing to a mention by Paul of the incarnation of Christ is not exactly a strong case for use of the term “manifestations,” especially considering that the term has long been associated with the Oneness heresy. But, a further and even more important message remains. Even if T.D. Jakes fully affirms Trinitarian doctrine, even if he could stand and affirm the Athanasian Creed in all its truth, one of the biggest elephants in the room was still ignored:



T.D. Jakes’ ministry is defined by Word-Faith doctrine. So, even if we wanted to widen our embrace, we still could not include Jakes within it until he has outwardly renounced his propagation of these Word-Faith doctrines.



Jakes is by far one of TBN’s most lucrative, talented, prosperous, and blatant teachers of the Word-Faith heresy. So by James MacDonald collectively referring to the ER2 participants as “brothers,” we are posed with a great problem indeed.





It is this very controversy surrounding the invitation of T.D. Jakes that led to the resignation of James MacDonald earlier this week from The Gospel Coalition. That resignation is not the point of this post, so I will simply point you to the “official” statement here.



I would also point you to an excellent post written by Dan Phillips, examining some of the more, shall we say audacious, points of MacDonald’s statement. Finally, the reader would do well to visit this post in order to read some of the inside communication- and instructions – that were sent out to members of the leadership of Harvest Bible Fellowship.



In returning to the true point of this post, however, the question still lingers: are James MacDonald and Steven Furtick really the two best pastors to be discussing the finer points of “working it out” when there are disagreements and issues within the body of Christ?

I referred earlier to a video that James MacDonald had posted in which he took on a rather….um, annoyed, demeanor toward his critics. To my knowledge, that video was removed from MacDonald’s own blog quite awhile ago, but Phil Johnson of Pyromaniacs was astute enough to make a copy of it:



Hm, methinks somebody doesn’t take too well to criticism. Of course, we were already made aware of this fact months ago when MacDonald had the nerve to compare his “reformed” critics with the Nazis; a comparison that, in this writer’s estimation, was not only far-fetched, but revealed an unquestionable display of ignorance and callousness from this man who supposedly has been called to lead and feed the sheep of Christ’s flock.





It seems that, when faced with criticism – even Biblical, concerned criticism, James MacDonald quickly resorts to ad hominem attacks. In a blog post dated September 27, 2011, the same blog post in which he declared that he did not believe T.D. Jakes to be a modalist, MacDonald stated the following:


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-5Ysvnn1H_R...nald+nazis.png


Gospel belief without gospel behavior is what I refer to as ‘religious.’ Every minister of the gospel should welcome and learn from criticism, but critics that act like pagans are probably just that and bring little benefit to the hearer. (Online Source)



The problem is, as Ken Silva points out in his post James MacDonald and His Pagan Critics, much of the criticism that has been leveled toward MacDonald


has not originated from mere “discernment bloggers,” but rather from trusted Christian leaders such as Thabiti Anywabile, Carl Trueman, Phil Johnson and James White.



Are we to assume, then, that these men are “pagans” simply because they have chosen to question some rather disconcerting decisions made by James MacDonald?




Ultimately, it seems we have seen that James MacDonald has chosen to ignore Godly criticism in favor of “unity” with those who have thus far not offered much evidence of their adherence to the historic Christian faith, i.e. “Bishop” T.D. Jakes.


Jakes also does not take well to criticism, as is evidenced well in the post T.D. Jakes Says Ken Silva is Being Obnoxious. When pressed by Silva regarding his Trinitarian beliefs, Jakes responded by calling Silva “obnoxious” and then proceeded to block him on Twitter. Very mature indeed, Bishop.






Let us remind ourselves, then, that this is the man who has so enraptured MacDonald that MacDonald has opted to resign from The Gospel Coalition so that he might continue to widely embrace Jakes as a participant in ER2. In fact, we saw in the post A Preview to the Elephant Room 2?, that MacDonald positively gushed over Jakes publicly on Twitter this past weekend. It seems he further strengthened these bonds today. The reader may recall the post A Biblical Critique of T.D. Jakes’ Code Orange Revival Sermon, wherein was linked a rather lengthy, comprehensive, and quite honestly, outstanding biblical examination of T.D. Jakes’ COR message written by Daniel Neades at his blog, Better Than Sacrifice. Suffice it to say that said critique received quite a bit of publicity. It was even sent via Twitter to both T.D. Jakes and James MacDonald:





It seems that someone using the Twitter handle “MarcRJeffrey” intercepted this message and chimed in with the following:





As you can see, this message was actually “retweeted” by Bishop Jakes, an action which, in the Twitter realm, typically means that one agrees with what was said in the original message. Jakes did offer his own input on Neades’ post, however:





Well, apparently this finally caught the eye of James MacDonald and he must have “retweeted” the above message by “MarcRJeffrey.” The retweet has since been removed from MacDonald’s Twitter stream before this writer had a chance to capture the image, but the following tweets by some of MacDonald’s followers offer good evidence that this message was indeed favorably retweeted by MacDonald (click on the images to enlarge):













As you can see from this final tweet by “jallman64,” when James MacDonald retweeted the above ad hominem attack toward Daniel Neades and his well-written critique, MacDonald also made a point of announcing that he had “blocked” Neades on Twitter.


Really? And this is the pastor who is going to be discussing how to “work out” differences among fellow believers?



Until recently, James MacDonald was not often the recipient of public criticism. Faced with such situations, it is obvious that his first method of defense is to level immature counter-attacks against the character of individuals whom he does not even know.


And yet, today here he sits at The Elephant Room 2, discussing how to resolve and “work out” differences in beliefs, how to “confront a brother in error,” and how to “practically encourage/challenge those who are different” than oneself.



At the risk of repeating myself too often, again I ask: Really?

Based upon the evidence before us, it seems that James MacDonald may actually be more than a little disqualified from participating in and leading such a conversation.



“WE CAN WORK IT OUT:” IS JAMES MACDONALD QUALIFIED TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION? : Apprising Ministries

[billiefan2000]

Hypocrisy Reaches New Heights in The Elephant Room
Posted by Cathy Mathews and Christine Pack


The Christian discernment blogosphere has already been very, very busy in just the first 4 weeks of 2012.



First was Passion 2012 in Atlanta, GA, with its concerning alliances and seemingly mystical activities which led to obvious questions among many Christians.


Next we had the whipped up Code Orange Revival which took place in Charlotte, NC under the direction of rising superstar pastor Steven Furtick, and at which Oneness heretic T.D. Jakes was......rebuked?

corrected for his false teaching? asked to leave?


No, none of those things. In fact, Trinity denier* Jakes was welcomed with open arms as a keynote speaker for the conference.


In an even more surprising turn, well-regarded pastor and Gospel Coalition member James MacDonald spoke very warmly from the stage about T.D. Jakes, and in tweets after the event proclaimed his love for Jakes and his teaching.


It was shortly after the Heresy Love Fest Code Orange Revival that James MacDonald, pastor of Harvest Bible Chapel, chose to resign from The Gospel Coalition, of which he had been a founding member.



Whew. But wait, there's more.




The reason these events have been so controversial is because discernment writers,

who are often charged with being hateful, judgmental, divisive, etc., have helped to put the spotlight on these concerning alliances (thus creating controversy),



and have written numerous articles aimed at helping their fellow Christians understand why it's a problem that T.D. Jakes denies the orthodox understanding of the Trinity, that doctrine really does matter, and why Christians can't just willy-nilly link to anyone who comes down the pike claiming to be a Christian brother. Words matter. Terms matter. Definitions matter.


After all, we demand precision from cab drivers, surgeons, airline pilots, and elevators: should we ask any less from those who are handling God's word? And thus, controversy has arisen. Should high profile pastors like James MacDonald (and by default, well-regarded groups like The Gospel Coalition) be associated with someone like T.D. Jakes, a character that my grandfather would have given the old-fashioned term "huckster"?


So a number of Christian apologetics and discernment bloggers, including:

Dan Phillips (Biblical Christianity and Team Pyro)
Ken Silva (Apprising Ministires)
Talk show host Chris Rosebrough (Fighting For the Faith Radio)
Erin Benziger (Do Not Be Surprised)
Daniel Neades (Better Than Sacrifice)


(among others) have been outspoken critics of events like Code Orange Revival and The Elephant Room II,

and labored to help their fellow Christians understand the doctrinal problems with some of the speakers at these events, including Steven Furtick and T.D. Jakes.




But wait, there's still more.

In an ongoing effort to gather information, talk show host Chris Rosebrough and writer Erin Benziger (as mentioned above) both purchased tickets to Elephant Room II and traveled to the event,

which began today.

Upon entering the event, however, both were approached by security and told that their registration at the Elephant Room II conference has been revoked.



Both Rosebrough and Benziger were told to leave the premises of Harvest Bible Chapel under threat of arrest. Yes, you might want to read that again, and no, it's no joke.


(And you can listen to Chris Rosebrough discuss what happened in a radio interview at Issues, Etc. here)

And now read the purpose statement of The Elephant Room:




The Elephant Room is more than an event. It is the outgrowth of an idea.


The idea that the best way forward for the followers of Jesus lies not in crouching behind walls of disagreement but in conversation among all kinds of leaders about what the scriptures actually teach.


We must insist on the biblical Gospel, right doctrine and practice but not isolate ourselves from relationship even with those who believe much differently. (our emphasis)



As you probably already know, James MacDonald is the pastor at Harvest Bible Church and also the host of The Elephant Room II.



Just yesterday, MacDonald resigned from The Gospel Coalition due to his invitation to T.D. Jakes to speak at this year's Elephant Room.





Wow- apparently, MacDonald will separate from an organization that is grouped around the Biblical Gospel (The Gospel Coalition) for the sake of giving cover to a heretic who preaches a different gospel,


while at the same time refusing to even admit into attendance some Christians who disagree with MacDonald's yoking to said heretic.



Who is it in this picture that is "crouching behind walls of disagreement?"






* Before the emails start, yes, I know that T.D. Jakes was asked whether he affirms the Trinity at the just begun Elephant Room II, and yes I know that he answered that he does. The problem here is that no-one has asked him to define his terms.


Those who have researched T.D. Jakes and know him well can attest that he does not hold to the orthodox view of the Trinity as held by Christians through the centuries.



Sola Sisters: Hypocrisy Reaches New Heights in The Elephant Room

[billiefan2000]

James MacDonald Affirms T. D. Jakes
Posted on January 25, 2012 by Chrystal Whitt

James MacDonald posted this approximately a while ago on his Twitter feed.



Biblical savvy? T. D. Jakes is a Word of Faith teacher and a modalist. How exactly does that compute to having biblical savvy?

More to come, I’m sure. Stay tuned…


James MacDonald Affirms T. D. Jakes | Slaughter of the Sheep

[BuzzardHut]

What a heretical mess.

[billiefan2000]

WORLDVIEW WEEKEND RADIO WITH BRANNON HOWSE

Worldview Radio: Worldview Weekend Radio with Brannon Howse - January 27th, 2012


Brannon Howse: Aired January 26, 2012
Brannon’s guest is Chris Rosebrough.


Topic: Chris paid his registration fee in order to attend James McDonald’s Elephant Room 2

but was met at the door and told to leave or he would be arrested. Chris describes what happen and then hear the audio of McDonald inviting people to the conference to hear people with differing views lovingly discuss their disagreements as adults.

If that was the goal then why was Chris not allowed to attend the conference to simply report on what Word of Faith teacher and modalist,

T.D. Jakes had to say and how McDonald responded?




Topic: Chris explains what a modalist believes.


Topic: Chris also explains the unbiblical way Steve Furtick, who was also featured at the Elephant Room 2, interprets the Bible.



Topic: What did Matt Chandler recently say at Furtick’s Code Orange conference that seems to have upset him and how did Furtick respond?


Topic: We also take your calls.


Worldview Radio: Worldview Weekend Radio with Brannon Howse - January 27th, 2012

[billiefan2000]

Friday, January 27, 2012


Elephants In The Room: Stomping on the Essential Truth of the Nature of God

Surph's Side: Elephants In The Room: Stomping on the Essential Truth of the Nature of God


What's going on with the Elephants at The "Gospel" Coalition's Elephant Room with Driscoll and MacDonald so easily convinced by known Modalist and WOF heretic T.D. Jakes,


is the SAME THING that happened with Piper and Warren. Piper was also easily swayed by heretic Warren on what he "believes"


even though there is a multitude of evidence that Warren is a heretic.






It matters what question you ask to get to the TRUTH of what they really believe.


There are no more core issues. There are ony optional views. Truth in everything. POMO. Truth isn't knowable. Scholars are not dogmatic on Truth, rather they accept the above statements.






The main problem is that many religious leaders today say one thing and teach another. If you ask Gregory Boyd or the other “Open View of God” heretics if they believe in the “omniscience” of God, they will say, “Yes.” Dumb Christians are satisfied at this point and go their merry way deceived and hoodwinked. But if you force them to define the term “omniscience,” they end up denying that God knows all things! They claim that God does not and cannot know the future.
Just because someone says, “I believe in sola scriptura,” does not mean he really believes in it. If he elsewhere says that the Bible is not the final authority in faith and practice, he has denied in substance what he supposedly affirmed as a slogan. Heretics have always done this. What they affirm with the right hand is what they deny with the left hand. It does not matter what doctrine is at stake.


In the early 1980s, those who denied the inerrancy of Scripture did not begin by openly denying it.


They redefined it until the term “inerrancy” meant errors!



Those who deny the bodily resurrection of Christ often pretend to believe in it by tricky words and double talk.


Believe me; I have heard some slick theologians in my day!


Apostasy in Scripture is of two kinds: doctrinal and moral.



A heretic can be a good person who is very moral. Yet, he can also be an anti-Christ. The monk Pelagius was according to all a good man, morally speaking.


Thus when I point out some teacher as a heretic, evanjellyfish usually respond, “But he is sooo nice! He is a good man. How dare you attack him!”



They assume that heretics are always mean and vile.


A nice heretic who says that right phrases and theological clichés cannot be a heretic in their mind.


The problem with heretics who are “nice” is that we tend to let them get away with the most outrageous teaching because they seem to be so nice.


~ Robert Morey


End quote.


Surph's Side: Elephants In The Room: Stomping on the Essential Truth of the Nature of God

[billiefan2000]

buzzard, that is a under statement with the elephant room

[billiefan2000]

Quick-Hit Thoughts on ER2


Hey, earlier I posted the transcript to Session 4 of yesterday's Elephant Room, or at least of the portion of it in which TD Jakes addressed the issue of Trinitarianism.



Here are my brief thoughts: others will no doubt parse this fully.



1. Jakes masterfully deconstructs the entire practice of theology. Don't be fooled by the panel members who insist that he affirmed the Trinity. What he did was say, "I'm Trinitarian so long as I am free to express it in Sabelian terms."


He repeatedly insisted that Oneness folks and Trinitarian folks are all saying the same thing. He dismissed the question as secondary - not worth division among the people of Christ, among whom he clearly counts the Oneness churches.


Once he has deconstructed the very idea of systematic theology, he can affirm anything. So yes, he answered "absolutely" or "yes" to each and every one of Driscoll's questions, but what does that mean? Not much.




2. Driscoll and MacDonald are too much in awe of Jakes' massive numeric success to call him on this. They are not just appreciative of his willingness to talk, they are openly in awe of a preacher who has been on the cover of Time.


They made no attempt to address his various twists and turns, and actually affirmed his anti-doctrinal barrages. I've said for months that the ER purpose statement confuses fidelity with fruitfulness, making the latter the test of the former.


Note how often MacDonald goes to this very issue: we cannot question this man's fruitfulness; it must speak for itself.




3. James MacDonald is angry. OK, you knew that. You saw the email from his ministry and read about Chris Rosebrough's removal from the premises of the conference. But look at how the anger is directed in this transcript.

He is angry with anyone who questions Jakes, because this non-affirmation of Trinitarianism is sufficient. If you don't see that, you're irrational. MacDonald has a new friend, and he's excited to have him. Don't go stepping on his toes.


4. The mega-pastors are one big lovin' family! This is perhaps more of a comment on the whole day, but it comes out clearly at the end of this session. It's all about love. It's all about how much they enjoy hangin' with each other.


And if they are big enough to be loving and humble and gracious, it's just too bad that the rest of us are so small as to worry about things like the nature of God - which, I'm sorry - is not mysterious in the way that Jakes says.


But who am I? Nobody. I can't demonstrate my fidelity without mega-fruits, so I just need to "step away."





5. If you aren't defined at least somewhat by what you are against, you aren't really defined at all. Think about it.


Can you trust any of the men on this panel to represent Christianity, when they can't even see through the nonsensical anti-doctrinal anti-Christian drivel that Jakes spouted, and when they point to it and say, "See? He's just like us!"


Tom Chantry from Thursday, January 26, 2012


CRBC Pastoral Blog: Quick-Hit Thoughts on ER2


Sola Sisters: Tom Chantry on ER2

[billiefan2000]

28 January 2012
Voddie Baucham's Scheduled Appearance at Harvest Bible Chapel Men's Conference Canceled Due to "Differences Regarding ER2"
Voddie Baucham, pastor at Grace Family Baptist Church, is known for his clear exposition and teaching of Scripture and for his no-nonsense way of preaching the truth. Indeed, he is a trusted teacher of God's Word, and someone who many would be eager to hear preach and teach live. In the midst of the T.D. Jakes "Is he a Trinitarian or not?" controversy, an interesting revelation was noted earlier this week on Baucham's Facebook page.

(Online Source)

There's two points of interest here. First, it is commendable and important to note that Baucham was actually invited to participate in this year's Elephant Room 2, but rejected the invitation because of T.D. Jakes. Well done, sir, thank you for standing firmly upon the truth of the Word of God.


The second interesting point is found in Baucham's response to a request for more thoughts regarding Jakes. He clearly notes that Jakes "dodged the question," and was allowed by Driscoll and MacDonald to "use modalist language." He then makes this interesting observation: "He [Jakes] was NEVER going to be confronted. He was an honored guest. He was not going to be penned down." Baucham nails it here. By bringing in big-name Jakes, the men of the Elephant Room were able to widely expand their audience, and there was little chance that they would actually confront Jakes in his multiple heresies. I appreciate how Baucham highlights that, even if Jakes had clearly affirmed Trinitarianism and renounced Modalism, there still is one problem that was utterly ignored, and that is Jakes' propagation of the prosperity gospel. In the words above of Voddie Baucham, "Jakes does not hold to the biblical gospel. He is a false teacher." Well, if the men of ER2 saw that statement, I'm sure they breathed a sigh of relief that Baucham wasn't on the panel last Wednesday. Imagine how embarrassing it would have been if he had confronted T.D. Jakes, MacDonald and Driscoll's "honored guest," with such harsh words!


This story gets more interesting, however. For quite some time, Voddie Baucham has been scheduled to speak with James MacDonald at the Men's Conference taking place this weekend at Harvest Bible Chapel.

(Online Source. Following this screen capture,
the above post was removed from the HBC website.)

We found out this morning, however, that Baucham, after traveling to Chicago to participate in this speaking engagement, has found himself on a plane back home.

(Online Source)

The reason for this was offered just a few moments earlier on Baucham's Facebook page.


(Online Source)

Can we now conclude that James MacDonald would much prefer the embrace of a money-shilling prosperity preacher than that of a sound, trusted preacher of God's Word? Indeed, it seems that James MacDonald has clearly demonstrated who is allowed to join the new "tribe" that he sought to create with the Elephant Room, and this writer fears that it is not a membership roster of which he ought to boast.


I hope I speak for many when I say to Voddie Baucham, thank you, sir, for placing your commitment to God and His Word above all else.



Do Not Be Surprised...: Voddie Baucham's Scheduled Appearance at Harvest Bible Chapel Men's Conference Canceled Due to "Differences Regarding ER2"


Voddie Baucham’s Scheduled Appearance at Harvest Bible Chapel Canceled Due to “Differences Regarding ER2″ at Christian Research Net