John Piper pushing Chrislam (which he and Rick Warren will later deny and complain

[GlennO]

Meg said:

It would seem that the Piper quote is misunderstood. I went to the source, and Piper's own words vindicate him completely.

Meg said:

I remain unconvinced that Piper is such a bad actor. There wasn't enough in that clip to make sense of the whole event. Frankly, I am tired of all the gossip, and I have noticed that those who have so much energy to bash other ministries have little time for anything positive or beneficial to offer those in need. With that, I am withdrawing from this thread. I like John Piper. I wish I knew the man in person. His blog is absolutely lovely, his insights are deep and profound, his poetry is just amazing... I remain convinced he is doing his level best to serve the Lord.

Glenn says: Thanks Meg! Discernment Ministries are IMO folks who are sometimes well meaning and many times misguided. They are those that see a heretic under every stool and feel compelled to spam their opinions to every conceivable Christian forum are (again IMO) boring and tedious. I see little precious little love associated with such ministries.

These ministries are like the catalogs that clog my PO Box.....unwanted or needed!

[billiefan2000]

Discernment Ministries are IMO folks who are sometimes well meaning and many times misguided. They are those that see a heretic under every stool and feel compelled to spam their opinions to every conceivable Christian forum are (again IMO) boring and tedious. I see little precious little love associated with such ministries.

These ministries are like the catalogs that clog my PO Box.....unwanted or needed!

Glenn, if churches were using and teaching christians to use discernement and not promoting teachers just cause their popular

there would be no need for the odmers to do what they do.


the odmers and others like them came to be cause the churches neglected using discernment and have neglected speaking out against false teachers



maybe, instead of attacking the odmers for what they do, maybe the churches who push false teachers and give excuses to false teachers should be called out.

[GlennO]

Bill -

You don't get it. There are thousands of churches in the US that are teaching through the bible Chapter by Chapter, verse by verse, precept by precept.

The sheeples that warm the pews of money-preachers and seeker-friendly are lost. THEY ARE NOT HERE! They are not reading or "hearing" what you are spamming us with

[arapahoepark]

Glenn, if churches were using and teaching christians to use discernement and not promoting teachers just cause their popular

there would be no need for the odmers to do what they do.


the odmers and others like them came to be cause the churches neglected using discernment and have neglected speaking out against false teachers



maybe, instead of attacking the odmers for what they do, maybe the churches who push false teachers and give excuses to false teachers should be called out.

I agree with this. I do agree with Glenn sometimes they find a heretic under every stool sometimes. Sometimes my beliefs would be seen as heretical to them, but a majority of the time they are spot on and they are definitely needed. In a world like today, we see it as wrong to even say other people are wrong, even though they are.
They are needed, but I think this came into a big argument that there doesn't need to be. John Piper is a good Bible believing and teacher pastor despite somethings. Tim Keller is good too even though anymore he is questionable.

[Hannah]

Let's all just not bother to question anything, put our head in the sand and then when the Heresy is fully on display you sit there shocked "how'd that happen?"

Well I'm only accountable for myself and having been through two Churches that went into full blown Heresy (denying Christ is the only way to God) I know the congregation saw the signs of things not being quite right but we sat there until it became obvious. We really shouldn't have.


JUDE 1:3 Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints. 4 For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.


These false teaching and men don't hang a sign around there necks so you can easily identify them. If Piper has allowed False Teachers to come in he is certainly going to be accountable as the Shepherd of His Flock allowing deception and false teaching to be preached to his flock.

We have been warned. The Bible has many passages warning us to be alert for False Teachers and False Prophets.

Not condemning Piper for what he teaches but what he has allowed. Surely as a Minister/Pastor he should be mature enough to see a Wolf in Sheeps clothing?

JUDE 1:17 But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, "In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires." 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

We should not be surprised there is debate and argument here about John Piper. These men and women who are teaching deception and lies are there to Divide. That is what the want to do set Saved Believers against each other.

You have fallen for their trap, hook line and sinker. Here we are debating and arguing. Satan is having a great time.

1TI 1:3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer 4 nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith. 5 The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6 Some have wandered away from these and turned to meaningless talk. 7 They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.


1TI 6:11 But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness. 12 Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

1TI 6:20 Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to your care. Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge, 21 which some have professed and in so doing have wandered from the faith.
Grace be with you.

So where are the Godly men that need to stand up and command these False Teachers to stop teaching their false doctrines today?

At least some have taken the steps to warn Believers of False Teachers and the company they keep. Seems John Piper hasn't bothered to be more discerning with whom he fellowships and allows to teach to his own sheep.

I'm not saying Piper is a False Teacher here but he has invited those who have been teaching false doctrines to speak to his congregation and those who have come to hear Piper speak are also exposed to false doctrines and teaching. Piper has a responsibility as a Shepherd over God's flock but he has invited the wolves to come around instead of keeping them away.

[Hannah]

We all have different ways in which we serve God, some are Teachers, some encourage, some have the gift of hospitality and some have the gift of warning Believers to remain in the faith and not be led astray by false teachers and their doctrines.

Billiefan2000 is only following the instructions given to us here in Jude.

JUDE 1:17 But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, "In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires." 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

JUDE 1:20 But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit. 21 Keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.

JUDE 1:22 Be merciful to those who doubt; 23 snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear--hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.

He is criticised for not giving the gospel message. However there is also a need to "Be merciful to those who doubt; 23 snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear--hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh".

[OnceWasLost]

Some ODMers are out there, others are the watchmen that fulfill Romans 16:17

The needed thing is to look at the information and let the chips fall where they may, regardless of whether we like the speaker or not. I too am perplexed by pastors who embrace those whom they have no business embracing. Piper with Rick Warren, since Piper is the subject of the thread, is a prime example. He lends instant credibility to a man who does not deserve the credibility.

ODMers are correct to point this out, as they were to post the Lectio video I linked upthread, as he shared the contemplative reading with Beth Moore, among others. That is not out of bounds, it is prudent to bring attention to a troubling new direction Piper is taking.

[mattfivefour]

Getting back to the core of the OP, the issue of Chrislam is one that is gaining traction in the world.


From another end times site which titled its article Chrislam Starts To Spread In America:

"The concept of Chrislam, now embraced by such preachers as Rick Warren and Robert Schuller, appears to have emerged from a program on the meaning of 'love your neighbor' at Grace Fellowship Church in Atlanta, Georgia. 'In 2001, like most Americans, we were pretty awakened to the true Islamic presence in the world and in the United States,' says Jon Stallsmith, the outreach minister at Grace Fellowship. 'Jesus says we should love our neighbors. We can’t do that without having a relationship with them.' Stallsmith maintains that a rapprochement between Muslims and Christians can be achieved by the fact that Jesus is mentioned twenty-five times in the Quran."

Of course, that ignores the fact that Jesus is called Isa, is not the Son of God, nor is he the Messiah. In fact he is a servant to Mohammad, whose feet he will kiss!

But this conscious departure from the teaching of the Bible is nothing new. Satan has not changed one bit since he fell. He uses the same two lies: trying to pull man away from God's Word ("Yea, hath God said ...?") and from trusting God's goodness and character ("God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods ....") BTW, the modern translations suggest that by the use of the word "elohim" in Genesis 3:5 Satan was not saying "ye shall be as gods" but rather that "ye shall be as God Himself." This may be correct. In fact all religions in the world offer man the opportunity to become a god, if not part of God Himself. Christianity alone differs, presenting the truth that man is created and shall ever be a created being even when he is glorified. God alone is God ... and ever shall be.

The issue of Chrislam, like all of the other apostasies in evidence today, is the result of man ceasing to stand on God's Word. There is NO OTHER ROCK upon which man can stand but the Word of God. God and His Word cannot be separated. Christ IS the Word. There may be differences of interpretation of certain scriptures, but the fundamental precepts, the core beliefs, the cardinal doctrines, are not debatable because they are clear in God's Word to all who have the Spirit of Christ —that is to say, the Holy Spirit— within them. As soon as we begin veering from the Word we begin veering into error. The Bereans were not "more noble" merely because they searched the Scriptures, but because they searched the Scriptures to see if what was being taught them agreed with the Word. Had it not, Paul would have been cast out from their presence.

All we as ministers of the Gospel can—indeed, surely all we should—do is ensure that we are not only rightly dividing the Word and walking in it in our own lives, but boldly and lovingly proclaiming it, breaking it, feeding it, to all who will hear. In Ephesians the Holy Spirit tells us that God called and placed in His Church some men to be apostles, prophets, evangelists, and pastors and teachers (the latter are one thing in the Greek) for the equipping of the saints, bringing us all to maturity in Christ, that "we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive." Too many preachers are spending too much time in men's books and not enough in God's Book. Too many seminaries are teaching future pastors and preachers to doubt the sufficiency, indeed the soundness, of God's Word.

Years ago, even before I understood His calling, God laid Lamentations 4:4 on me ... and it broke my heart! Ever since, He has progressively caused me to walk in obedience to that call. I am encouraged by the fellowship I have found among other ministers, some of whom are members on this site, who treasure the pure Word, who break it for others and who encourage others who also desire to break it in the same fashion.

Let us all continue to stand on God's Word and preach it in its pure form, not trying to curry favor with our listeners, or apologizing for what God has said. And let us not compromise it in any fashion whatsoever. God spoke it. That is enough for us to preach it without reservation.