Beth Moore And John Piper Lead Lectio Divina-lite At Passion 2012

[billiefan2000]

BETH MOORE AND JOHN PIPER LEAD LECTIO DIVINA-LITE AT PASSION 2012
By Ken Silva pastor-teacher on Jan 6, 2012 in AM Missives, Current Issues, Features, Southern Baptist Convention

Apprising Ministries has been warning for years concerning the evil effects of the neo-liberal in the Emerging Church aka the Emergent Church.

It’s an incontrovertible fact that right from its hatching in hell corrupt Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism (CSM), such as that taught by Living Spiritual Teacher and Quaker mystic Richard Foster along with his spiritual twin and Southern Baptist minister Dallas Willard, was a core doctrine.

Spreading as a spiritual cancer throughout apostatizing evangelicalism, we even see that it’s slithered all the way into the New Calvinst neo-reformed camp e.g. as in Acts 29 Network And Reformed Counter Reformation Spirituality? One of the fruits of CSM is a blurring of doctrinal lines, which is particularly dangerous in this time of postmodernism and growing spiritual blindness.

It’s also giving rise to a rebirth of Pietism; this isn’t surprising when you consider that CSM flowered in the antibiblical monastic traditions of apostate Roman Catholicism. As the evangelical fad of CSM expands there’s a decided charismania also developing, which is producing a syncretism where Word Faith heretics like Joel Osteen and T.D. Jakes are essentially considered mainstream now. With all of this has come more and more people claiming to have direct experience with God.

The end result is making the climate more condusive for things like Beth Moore Recommending “Jesus Calling” Book Claiming Direct Divine Revelation. This is the backdrop upon which to better see what’s happening as you watch the video clips to follow below from the Passion 2012 Conference. This conference has been going on in Atlanta, and was largely aimed at young adults and students.

Hosted by Louis Giglio, pastor of Passion City Church in Atlanta, Passion featured an interesting lineup of speakers such Francis Chan, Beth Moore and New Calvinist mentor John Piper. Not surpisingly the conference had a distinctive charismatic and even contemplative flair; e.g. prayer walking. After one session the crowd was urged to break into “love groups” and go out to pray and “take back the city of Atlanta.”

Years of emerging bombardment of pro-CSM propaganda aimed at younger sectors of the Christian community fired right out of evangelical publishing houses has also had much effect upon the broader culture of the more charismatic/emotion-driven side of the church visible as well. To serve as an illustration, below we have SBC Lifeway-sponsored Beth Moore praising an apostate (at best) Roman Catholic mystic and the crown jewel of CSM.

If you didn’t know, this is a form of meditation in an altered state of consciousness commonly known as Contemplative/Centering Prayer (CCP):






Moore’s admitted practice of some form of CCP, which is actually divination, has opened her up to even receive direct revelation and visions from God. Below from a 2002 series called Believing God, available right now at Lifeway’s website, Moore describes a vision God gave her concerning His Church.

Sounding not too unlike Word Faith wingnuts she tells us God took her into some kind of dimension where she was able to see the Body of Christ as Jesus sees it:


Apparently the Protestant Reformation was really some sort of horrible mistake because Moore’s Jesus sees the Roman Catholic Church as another Christian denomination. This becomes clear below as Moore demonstrates what she saw in her vision from God:


Yet despite this obviously false vision ten years ago, there was Beth Moore preaching to thousands alongside New Calvinists John Piper and Francis Chan. I guess we really should expect this because Piper has told us before: “I’m Happy To Learn From Beth Moore.”

Who knows, perhaps he even shares Moore’s view that men like John MacArthur are guilty of teaching extreme error in the Body of Christ:


By the way, the other extreme teaching in the Body of Christ that Beth Moore sees is what she calls “sensationalism.” Something I personally think she’s now become involved in. As I said earlier, the CSM being dabbled with now in mainstream evangelicalism is bringing about a form of Pietism; an emotional, sentimental, emotion-driven form of worship. What you saw at Passion 2012.

Christian apologist Bob DeWaay is dead-on-target as he explains:

Pietism is difficult to define because it can be taught and practiced in an unlimited number of ways. Some versions appear to be innocuous while others are so radical that most people would see that something is wrong. I now know that no version of pietism is actually innocuous. If a teaching is called pietism but teaches no more than what God has always used to sanctify Christians, then it is not really pietism. Real pietism always harms those who embrace it.

The essence of pietism is this: It is a practice designed to lead to an experience that purports to give one an elite or special status compared to ordinary Christians. The Bible addresses this error in the book of Colossians. The false teachers in Colossae claimed to have the secret to a superior Christian experience that would cause people to rise above the bad “fate” they feared. Paul went on to explain that they already had everything they needed through Christ and His work on the cross. Another way of stating this is: If after having fully trusted Christ’s finished work on the cross, you are told that you are still lacking something, you are being taught pietism.

Church history is littered with misguided pietistic movements. Many of them are linked with mysticism… Pietism can be practiced many ways including enforced solitude, asceticism of various forms, man made religious practices, legalism, submission to human authorities who claim special status, and many other practices and teachings.
(Online source)

In closing this, for now, I’ll show you something that gives us real cause for concern in the seeming dangerous drift of Beth Moore and John Piper. Following are clips from Session 5 of Passion 2012 where we were to enter into the silence to let God speak to us, not only through Scripture, but directly inside of us as well. However, this is language actually straight out of CSM and can also refer to the TM-lite of CCP.

Beth Moore, John Piper et al each took turns reading from the Book of Ephesians; then they each would ask for silence and say something along the lines of: “Be still and let Jesus speak to you.” This is Beth Moore:





Now John Piper:





Finally, here’s Louis Giglio closing out Session 5. Any doubt about what’s been going on in the silence is dispelled at :20 below. To all but the most naive it will become clear to you that, contra the proper Christian spirituality of sola Scriptura, Giglio is talking about direct encounters with God in addition to Holy Scripture:

How many of you heard the voice of God speak specifically, clearly, directly, and personally, to you? Can you just put a hand up? I’d like you to share it. Can you put a hand up for a minute?

Just want you to look around; that’s people saying, “God Almighty (pause) the Maker of heaven (pause) the one Who’s sitting on the only throne (pause) that’s not under threat (long pause, audience cheers)—He spoke to me. He spoke to me.”

“God spoke to me.” (long pause) Don’t let the voice of the darkness, tell you that you are not (pause) worth (pause) that God would not speak to you. (pause) Don’t let him tell you, you don’t matter. (pause) God spoke to you.

Perhaps this is why more and more in the charismatic camp have been embracing the Roman Catholic Church as another Christian denomination; like Rome, they now also have the Bible…plus…







BETH MOORE AND JOHN PIPER LEAD LECTIO DIVINA-LITE AT PASSION 2012 : Apprising Ministries

[myinnuendo999]

Sadly, People like Beth Moore continue to embrace Catholics as our brothers and sisters in Christ all the while turning a blind eye to what God's word clearly teaches. They are causing the divisions because (they) are not remaing loyal to sound biblical teachings and the essentials are being ignored for the sake of unity-by sacrificing the truth. Truth is being slain in the streets. If a person calls themself a brother or sister and continues to embrace Catholics and continues the very dangerous unbiblical practice of "contemplative prayer" then they have "departed from the faith"~~1Ti 4:1 "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons". Scripture cannot be any clearer. But what are people doing? They'd rather defend people in error rather than God's WORD.

Piper and Moore are also beginning to show signs that 1Jo 2:19 is coming more to light with them.

"They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." 1 John 2:19.

The time is come I truly believe to separate from people who call themselves brothers or sisters and continue to go down the wrong path no matter how "Christian" they may seem. Their actions to continue down the broad path speaks otherwise!

I would stress that it IS biblical to have nothing to do with people who continue to embrace heretics and heretical teachings.

1Cr 5:11-12 "But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. 12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?

Let's find out who really is holding true to sound doctrine or making up their own doctrine. Let's find out who is agreeing on the Only True Gospel and who is making up another Gospel bringing upon themsleves-- anathama. WE MUST AGREE ON THE ESSENTIALS-THE GOSPEL or it is time to part.

Romans 16:17 "I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people.---In other words don't unite in love with them if they deny SOUND doctrine. Somebody who denies the clear teaching of doctrinal truth it's CLEAR separate from them~~~

Scripture is not ambiguous at all~

Hebrews 13:8-9a "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings."



Ken Silva said

"inform yourself,

The over-arching issue is what Beth Moore teaches.

This will help you become more informed: http://apprising.org/2011/12/28/sbcs...be-protestant/

[billiefan2000]

beth moore is also like by many seeker churches (which embrace roman catholics as well)

so her compromising isnt a shocker.



IMO:


any teacher out there that seeker churches and in particular the willow creek association member churches have a lot of love and respect for,

I think heavy discernment should be used cause seeker churches promote a lot of weird things and false teachers

[billiefan2000]

WHAT JOHN PIPER AND JIM WALLIS HAVE IN COMMON AND WHY THE POPE WILL BE DELIGHTED
By Ken Silva pastor-teacher on Jan 7, 2012 in AM Missives, Current Issues, Features

Apprising Ministries continues tracking the evangelical pilgrimage back to Rome through its spiritually deadly sordid lust affair with corrupt Counter Reformation Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism (CSM).

It’s critical to remember that CSM flowered in the antibiblical monastic traditions of the Church of Rome and it would produce apostate Roman Catholicism in the first place.

We also have to keep in mind that this spurious CSM slithered into the mainstream of the church visible through , which largely the work of Living Spiritual Teacher and Quaker mystic Richard Foster along with his spiritual twin and Southern Baptist minister Dallas Willard.

This neo-Gnostic cult of Foster-Willardism masquerades as so-called Spiritual Formation and its crown jewel is a form of meditation in an altered state of consciousness commonly called Contemplative/Centering Prayer (CCP). CCP is transcendental meditation only lightly sprayed with Christian terminology.

So, just what do Reformed New Calvinist John Piper and apostate emerging Progressive Christian Rev. Jim Wallis have in common? Well, we begin to see it in Beth Moore And John Piper Lead Lectio Divina-Lite At Passion 2012. That right; they both want the organizations they head to practice the CSM practice of Lectio Divina.

The below is from Jonathan Parnell in A System for Praying in 2012 , which was his New Years Eve post at Desiring God blog:


(Online source)

No guilt-by-endorsement here; this is strictly guilt-by-endorsement. Since it’s not the main subject of this piece, for more on the CSM practice of Lectio Divina I refer you to Dangers Of Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism: Lectio Divina.

Right now I will remind you that the current antichrist pope in Rome will be delighted with John Piper because:

Benedict XVI believes that the recovery of the practice of “lectio divina,” prayerful meditation of Scripture, will bring a “new spiritual springtime” for the Church. (Online source)

The above comes from Benedict XVI Promotes Biblical Meditation and the blaspheming “Vicar of Christ,” so deluded he thinks he’s the Holy Spirit, goes on to explain that Lectio Divina is know by those who invented it as “The Monk’s Ladder.”

Here’s more on this man-centered foolishness from someone who knows precisely what Lectio Divina is:

The systematization of “lectio divina” in four steps dates back to the 12th century, explained the Holy Father. Around 1150, Guido, a Carthusian monk, wrote a book entitled “The Monks’ Ladder,” where “he set out the theory of the four rungs: reading, meditation, prayer and contemplation [i.e. CCP],” according to the Pope. “This is the ladder by which the monks ascend from earth to heaven.” (Online source, emphasis mine)

Hmm, I guess now the monks are going to have to make room on that ladder for the New Calvinists. In closing this, for now, as a servide to our neo-Gnostic neo-Reformed friends, below is a little lesson in Lectio Divina and CCP. Let me introduce you to our CSM spiritual directors.

First we have former pastrix Rose Marie Berger, whose title is at Soujouners of Jim Wallis is Associate Editor. Guru Berger was co-pastrix at Sojourners Community Church. Our other instructor for our little Lectio Divina lesson is Web Editor Jeannie Choi, former youth pastrix at Temecula Calvary Korean Church.

It’s interesting to note that at 2:24 into the first video clip guru Choi tells us she was introduced to CSM and Lectio Divina by one of her professors at ostensibly evangelical Wheaton College.



Now in the Reformed sector CSM continues reversing the Reformation and ushering in pietism and syncretism.





Sojourners editors Rose and Jeannie demonstrate contemplative prayer practices #1






Sojourners editors Rose and Jeannie demonstrate contemplative prayer practices #2





WHAT JOHN PIPER AND JIM WALLIS HAVE IN COMMON AND WHY THE POPE WILL BE DELIGHTED : Apprising Ministries

[billiefan2000]

John Piper Encouraging Lectio Divina
Posted by Christine Pack

This post should be filed under the category of "Very, Very Sad."


In a recent article by Ken Silva of Apprising, Silva reported that Bible teacher Beth Moore and respected theologian John Piper participated in a sort of "Lectio Divina Lite" prayer at the Passion 2012 Conference going on in Atlanta right now. But even more than that, Dr. John Piper, pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church in Minneapolis, is now straight up encouraging the mystical practice of Lectio Divina to his followers on his Desiring God website. A recently published article at Desiring God, which provides "God centered resources from the Ministry of John Piper," encourages readers to learn Lectio Divina, a mystical practice developed by Roman Catholic monks. Some of what is written in this article is very good, but I have to ask the obvious question here: Should we really be getting any aspect of our theology from monks who cloistered themselves (in direct opposition to what Scripture teaches), and who dabbled in pagan mysticism? Fellow Christians, this is disturbing to me and should be for all of us who claim the name of Christ. Dr. Piper has been a highly esteemed theologian for years, maybe decades. This is yet another exhortation that we are to follow God, and not a man.




The Desiring God article in question points us to author Kenneth Boa, a Thomas Merton quoting mystic. That's right, the very same Thomas Merton who said he wanted “to become as good a Buddhist as I can.”


Kenneth Boa, Devotional Spirituality, Part 7, "The Practice of Sacred Reading"

While it could be hoped that Kenneth Boa means nothing more than deeply contemplating Scripture (as Scripture commands), sadly, he makes it clear in one of his articles that, when discussing the practice "Contemplative Prayer," he is not merely talking about deeply and mindfully contemplating God's Word (as many Christians might think this term means). No, what he is pointing his readers toward is how to enter into an altered state of consciousness not for the purpose of learning mindfully about God, but to instead have some kind of subjective impression or experience of God. This is mysticism.


Kenneth Boa, Devotional Spirituality, Part 6, "The Practice of Sacred Reading"

Nowhere in Scripture are we taught that we have to get really silent and "listen" for God to speak to us, or, wait silently for God to "shape" us in some mystical way. Yes, the Holy Spirit guides us, and yes, there is some mystery about how this happens, but we have to go by Scripture. Jesus taught:

"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength." Mark 12:30 (my emphasis)
"But you, dear friends, must build each other up in your most holy faith, pray in the power of the Holy Spirit." Jude 1:20
"Pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints." Ephesians 6:18 (my emphasis)
We are to pray in the Spirit, staying mindfully alert. This is the Christian practice of prayer, and it stands in direct contrast to the pagan practice of "mystical prayer," which is to empty one's mind and go into an altered state of consciousness, sometimes called an Alpha state. Scripture doesn't teach going into an altered state of consciousness so that we can get some kind of mystical message from God. However, pagans of all stripes DO engage in this mind emptying practice.

First let me start with explaining why a person is unable to learn mindfully about God in an altered state of consciousness: it is because the mind, after following the techniques encouraged by Kenneth Boa (and now the Desiring God's website), is now in a controlled, light hypnotic trance. These techniques enable people to go into a state in which they are neither fully awake, nor fully asleep....they are somewhere in the middle. They are in an Alpha state. But in this state (well known throughout the occult world, incidentally), the mind is parked. It's in neutral. It can only receive information, much like a radio receiver, and is unable to critically process data.




And as mentioned above, mystics throughout the ages have always had "culturally personalized" techniques for achieving this state of mindlessness:




Hindus/Buddhists - Mantra meditation
Muslim Sufis - Chanting and ritual dancing
Judaism - Kabbalah
Chinese/Japanese - Taoism
Native American Indians - Drumming and peyote
Roman Catholic Monks - Contemplative prayer



All of these mystics - with widely divergent cultural customs and differences - have one thing in common: some kind of technique for shutting down the mind, and something we are never told to do in Scripture ("Be alert!").



My Christian friends, this practice of emptying the mind is dangerous, dangerous teaching, and as a former mystic,


I can attest to the fact that, rather than leading one to God, it leads practitioners instead into the demonic realm.


Please pray that God would open Dr. Piper's eyes to the dangers of this practice his website is now encouraging.


Sola Sisters: John Piper Encouraging Lectio Divina

[billiefan2000]

Are John Piper and Beth Moore Mormon? (and Louis Giglio too?)
Two articles that ought to be read in light of each other:

BETH MOORE AND JOHN PIPER LEAD LECTIO DIVINA-LITE AT PASSION 2012
By Ken Silva

Are Christians Mormon?
by Truman G. Madsen, Edited by Kerry A. Shirts

In particular contrast these two ideas observed in Christianity these days, first from Ken and then from Mormon Truman Madsden:

From Ken:

In closing this, for now, I’ll show you something that gives us real cause for concern in the seeming dangerous drift of Beth Moore and John Piper. Following are clips from Session 5 of Passion 2012 where we were to enter into the silence to let God speak to us, not only through Scripture, but directly inside of us as well. However, this is language actually straight out of CSM and can also refer to the TM-lite of CCP.

Beth Moore, John Piper et al each took turns reading from the Book of Ephesians; then they each would ask for silence and say something along the lines of: “Be still and let Jesus speak to you.” This is Beth Moore:
(Ken then provides video evidence of Moore at source link)

And from Truman Madsden:

Third, there was the claim that caused all to wince, of continual revelation. The Christian churches, in the absence of revelation, had tightened their views protectively, defensively, either around a holy man, the pope and hierarchy, or around a holy book, the Bible, which was alleged to be all-sufficient and only-sufficient. Religious knowing came only through that word and all other claims were treated as emotional extravagance.

Of Continual Revelation (See Prayer, Fasting, and Revelation home page)

Today it is different. Again the Quakers, George Fox, Rufus Jones, Elton Trueblood, speak (in these exact words) of continual revelation, by which they mean the cultivation of the inner light. [See, for example, George Fox, The Journal of George Fox (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1911); Rufus Jones, The Inner Life (New York: 1922), The Testimony of the Soul (New York: Maclmillan, 1937), Spirit in Man (Stanford: Stanford University Press, 1941), New Eyes for Invisibles (New York: Macmillan, 1943); and David Elton Trueblood, The Common Ventures of Life (New York: Harper and Brothers, 1949), The Essence of Spiritual Religion (New York: Harper and Brothers, 1936), and The Knowledge of God (New York: Harper & Row, 1939).] And they have abandoned the more extreme forms of mysticism--its world-hating, its denying of the subject-object distinction, its plea that one day we may be, in a metaphysical sense, one with the Ultimate. Instead, they are talking very intimately about what we would mean by the present influence of the light of Christ.

Please also listen to the 2 videos by Jim Wallis's Sojourners which Ken includes at the bottom this post:
WHAT JOHN PIPER AND JIM WALLIS HAVE IN COMMON AND WHY THE POPE WILL BE DELIGHTED

The demonstration of Lectio and being still and letting God speak in your head or somewhere other than his Scripture being read, has me creeped out instantly in ALL the videos at the links above. When we are SILENT God's word is NOT GOING FORTH. What a clever way Satan has come up with to silence the church, by teaching them that it's a way to some deeper spirituality or closer intimacy with Christ, as if Christ's work is unfinished. The Colossian heresy lives on.

It is interesting how the LDS church in 1973 was already rejoicing in the departure of Christianity from Sola Scriptura. The writers he quotes are Quakers. One would think someone as well-read as John Piper has read them himself and noted the error of Quakerism. I think John Piper should get his head out of his ivory tower and pay attention to these same errors of church history which he is duplicating. And Beth Moore well, as long as I've known about her, Beth has always been pretty loosey goosey with Scripture. But hey, she's cute and entertaining, and means well, isn't that enough? Can't I be kinder?

She often wonders why God allowed her to be in this position of teaching. And of course, so do many of us, still. See, I do agree with her sometimes!

Louis Giglio in the clip on Silva's article says:

“God spoke to me.” (long pause) Don’t let the voice of the darkness, tell you that you are not (pause) worth (pause) that God would not speak to you. (pause) Don’t let him tell you, you don’t matter. (pause) God spoke to you.

Yes, Balaam... remember, God spoke to you. And so did a donkey. Hee haw.



Purpose Drivel: Are John Piper and Beth Moore Mormon? (and Louis Giglio too?)

[billiefan2000]

THE HEART OF THE MATTER WITH JOHN PIPER AND LECTIO DIVINA
By Ken Silva pastor-teacher on Jan 10, 2012 in AM Missives, Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism, Current Issues, Features

John Piper…seems to be on a mission of inclusivity that has caused him a great deal of trouble in the recent past. The latest issue connected to his name is the issue of Lectio Divina.

On his website Piper endorses this as a method of prayers [sic] and Bible study… I think that the real problem here is not that Piper is engaging in some Catholic/mystical form of worship and prayer, but that he is engaged with people that are without drawing a dividing line for those that follow him and others…

[Lectio Divina] is dangerous because it takes the person outside of the Scriptures as they wait for God to speak directly to them through the Holy Spirit.

In my view, John Piper knows better then [sic] this… In fact in his book “Think”, which is that latest one I have read, he confronts postmodernism, subjective thinking, and anti-intellectualism. This does not sound like a guy who spends his time waiting for the Spirit to put his imagination to work.

Yet there he is on the stage with people who are most definitely [are] caught up in this mystical world of God-speak. He reads the Bible and tells people to then listen for Christ’s words. I have no doubt that he means listen to them from the scripture and gain your knowledge that way, if not then he has contradicted his own writings and articulated beliefs. However that is not all his stage partners did…

[P]eople out in the audience [at Passion 2012 were told] that God is speaking to them, and if they don’t hear it and raise their hand then they are less then the person next to them that did. There was no preparation or serious study that led to a deeper knowledge of the scripture that I know Piper wants people to have. It is an appeal to emotion and extra-biblical feelings that is nothing like what Piper or his contemporaries support or write about.

So here is the problem. It is not that Piper is joining the emergent movement, or that it discounts all of the great preaching and teaching he does like some in the reformed faith have charged him with. It is that Piper does not repudiate a practice that he has to know is not Biblical…

With all do [sic] respect to Piper who I have learned a great deal from, he seems to be on a mission to bring all forms of faith together by participating in events like these, sitting down with Rick Warren, and not drawing the lines where they are needed. This causes great confusion with his own flock and others that listen to him that now think that in order to be spiritual they have to hear the voice of God after reading a passage at a conference. He does a disservice to those he disciples by not calling these things out, but instead propping them up in the name of friendship.

This is not an attempt to bash John Piper, there is enough of that going on, but if he is going to continue down this road of “finding common ground” then he needs to point out the areas where the ground is not so common and repudiate error and false teaching when he interacts with it. Anything less then that is irresponsible on his part. (Online source)

llondy




THE HEART OF THE MATTER WITH JOHN PIPER AND LECTIO DIVINA : Apprising Ministries

[billiefan2000]

just read on FB:


Many people have been talking about John Piper and his support for Lectio Divina.



Christian radio talk show host Chris Rosebrough from Pirate Christian Radio

will be devoting his entire show tonight to the topic of Lectio Divina and hearing God's voice. 6pm eastern/5 central.



Should be interesting.

[billiefan2000]

DESIRING GOD PULLS LECTIO DIVINA ENDORSEMENT
By Ken Silva pastor-teacher on Jan 10, 2012 in Current Issues, Features


DESIRING GOD PULLS LECTIO DIVINA ENDORSEMENT : Apprising Ministries


In What John Piper And Jim Wallis Have In Common And Why The Pope Will Be Delighted here at Apprising Ministries I told you that over at the Desiring God blog in A System for Praying in 2012 , which was his New Years Eve post, Jonathan Parnell recommended Lectio Divina:


(Online source)

Tonight he has amended his post:





A System for Praying in 2012 - Desiring God


(Online source)




DESIRING GOD PULLS LECTIO DIVINA ENDORSEMENT : Apprising Ministries

[billiefan2000]

We're Really Not Out To "Get" John Piper and Beth Moore
Posted by Christine Pack and Cathy Mathews




The Passion 2012 conference recently finished the Atlanta leg of its tour, with notable keynote speakers Dr. John Piper and Beth Moore among the lineup. A controversy erupted when it appeared that during one segment of the conference that the speakers on stage (including Dr. Piper and Beth Moore) were engaging in some kind of mystical experience, that had similarities to the Roman Catholic mystical practice of Lectio Divina. It was also simultaneously reported that John Piper's Desiring God website had published a post by writer Jonathan Parnell in which Christians were actually encouraged to incorporate the practice of Lectio Divina into their prayer lives. The blogosphere erupted with discussion about both of these things, including our own blog and Facebook page, with some commenters confused, some not surprised by this development, and also a large contingent of commenters I'll call the Matthew Seven One-ers ("Who are you to judge!") calling us out for, that's right, judging.




Whew.

With all that in mind, my sister and I would like to answer to the charge that we're hatin' haters who just want to hate on people. So this post is written in an effort to show that neither one of us is out to "get" either Dr. Piper or Beth Moore.



First, Dr. Piper....

Dr. Piper is highly respected in the evangelical community, and for good reason. He has written scores of very biblical books and articles, he is pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church, and is known for being a staunch protector and defender of the purity of the gospel. This is why his apparent veering from the Reformation principle of Sola Scriptura (or, the idea that we hear from God through Scripture alone) by his participation in a seemingly mystical practice and his website's outright endorsement of Lectio Divina is all the more distressing.

My sister, who came out of the same New Age mysticism that I did, has written before about there being a time, when she was a very new Christian, that John Piper's teaching actually helped her get free of mysticism. In fact, she credits this particular video as being instrumental in helping her understand the biblical model for prayer:



At about the two minute mark in the above video, John Piper makes the following statement which is just a wonderful teaching on the biblical practice of prayer:

John Piper: "(You might ask me) why don't you just say (prayer), then, is communicating with God? That would be a little less awkward than 'intentionally conveying a message.' Why don't you just say, prayer is communicating with God? And here's the reason I tried that and rejected it. It's because it sounds when you say that like you mean you're communicating that way (pointing up to heaven) and He's communicating this way (pointing down to himself), and that's prayer. And that's not prayer. The Bible never calls God's communication to us 'prayer.' Never. And we get ourselves into a big muddle when we concoct phrases to that effect. Like his talking to us is a kind of prayer. It isn't."
Cathy's comment:

"One of the saddest things to me is that John Piper actually helped me come out of my Christian mysticism. When I began realizing that a lot of what is called Christian teaching these days is just pagan practices sprinkled with Christian terminology and some Bible verses, I looked to the the Bible and to good Bible teaches to help me answer two basic questions: How does God communicate with us? And what is prayer? It was some teaching by John Piper specifically on that second question that really helped me. He was very clear: prayer is us talking to God- it is not like a telephone conversation where I talk and then God talks. I came to the realization that God speaks to us through scripture. I could stop looking for signs and clues and hunches and feelings- I could just read God's Word and know that God was speaking clearly and openly to me. It was so freeing."
And in fact, after Cathy made this comment on a recent blog post, in reflecting back I also remembered how she had labored over this issue with me when I was a new Christian and she was discipling me. She really worked to help me understand this strange new concept of how it is that God communicates with us. It was extremely freeing for me as well, having come out of mysticism, where you're always trying to figure out out if the sign/nudge/dream/vision/impression/etc. that you received was really from God. It was just, open up your Bible and read. Really?? Really. So freeing So unmystical. Not to mention, so biblical.

Now for Beth Moore....

"Thank you God, that you are trustworthy. Thank you that you promise to make our paths straight. Please help us to acknowledge you in all our ways."
This is the prayer that my 10 year old son prayed this morning during Bible study, based on principles for praying that I taught him. I learned these principles for prayer from a Bible study by Beth Moore (Praying God's Word), one of the first Bible studies I ever took. Before the class had begun, I remember being so curious about what was meant by the title of the book: how could one "pray God's word?" What did that mean? Now remember, I had come out of New Age Hinduism and paganism. There is no concept of a personal God in the New Age. In the New Age, there are lots and lots and lots of techniques from lots of different cultures that are used as a means to get to "God" - so there is some understanding of there being a "God" out there. But there's not at all a biblical understanding of God: that God is not only transcendent but He is also personal. God is a God who not only hears the prayers of his people, but He also has the power to answer them. He is a God who not only intimately and deeply cherishes his people, but He also disciplines them if need be, as a loving parent would discipline his children. These are just completely foreign concepts about God for New Agers. The New Age "God" is an impersonal essence, or energy, or vibration, and somehow, people find ways to tap into this God for the usual things (power, love, success); or, they access or experience this "God," through various mystical practices.

So with this as my background, I went into the Praying God's Word Bible study by Beth Moore, and I was just completely undone when I came to an understanding that the God of the universes would not only allow us, but want us to pray directly to him, to come boldly before the Throne of grace, and into his very presence. The class consisted of each member being given an acrylic holder that contained a large number of small index cards on which Scripture was written. We were taught to read the Scripture, dwell on the passage for a few minutes, and then pray the Scripture back to God. Seems pretty remedial doesn't it? But this was an entirely new concept to me, so much so that in the middle of one class, I was so overcome with joy about knowing, finally knowing really and truly, how to speak to God that I began to weep so uncontrollably I couldn't even explain to my (concerned!) friends why I was crying. So for that study alone, I have tremendous goodwill toward Beth Moore. To this day, I pray using the principles for prayer as taught to me in that class, and have now taught these principles to my own children. And that is why I'm deeply, deeply grieved to have watched Beth Moore slowly become more and mystical in both her manner of speech and her teaching over time.

So back to the Passion 2012 conference. If you happen to click on the Passion 2012 graphic at the top of this post, you will see a tagline that says:




My question is this: Do 18-25 year olds living in our postmodern culture really need to be encouraged to think of God in mystical, subjective and experiential terms (as the Passion 2012 Conference seemed to be teaching)? Is it wise to model to them that prayer is praying, then listening for God's words in response (as Dr. John Piper, Beth Moore, Francis Chan and Louie Giglio did in Session 5)? Is it biblical?

I would submit, in fact, that 18-25 year olds of today are already far too experiential and subjective in their worldview. They need to be re-trained to understand, as John Piper has taught so eloquently in the past, that biblical prayer is "intentionally conveying a message to God," not praying, and then listening for God's audible answer back to us.

May we all strive to be more biblical in how we approach God, remembering that He detests mystical practices, and continually seek to conform our prayer life as closely as possible to the biblical model for what that should be.



Sola Sisters: We're Really Not Out To "Get" John Piper and Beth Moore