The Moral Dangers of Popular & Contemporary Christian Music

[mattfivefour]

Of course music can be intoxicating. It doesn't take a Thoreau to know that. The issue here is the PURPOSE of the music, not its nature. You may not like certain forms of music because you believe them to be ungodly and harmful. And if that is what you believe then that is what you should live by. But that is all. As to the rest of us, the Bible tells you to shut up, to hold your opinions to yourself, and commands you not to judge your brothers in what you hold to be true.

This topic has nothing to do with the nature of Christ, with the fact He is God, that He came to earth in the flesh, suffered, and died, paid the full punishment for our sins, and was resurrected as evidence that His sacrifice was perfect and accepted of the Father. It has nothing to do with the truth that man is a sinner and unable to save himself; with the fact that salvation is a gift of grace, accepted by faith in Christ and what He did at Calvary; that salvation is not a product of works, or knowledge or some spiritual attainment. It is not standing up against the lie that Jesus die spiritually, against the lie that he went to hell and suffered there, against the lie that he was Satan's prisoner and had to fight Satan in hell and somehow emerged the victor, against the lie that Jesus had to be born again. THOSE are the things for which we should—and MUST—contend. The topic of this thread, and a lot of the other threads you have posted, are your opinions and those of other men, who are quite entitled to those opinions and should hold to them because to do otherwise, according to Romans 14, would be for you to commit sin. But that same Romans chapter orders you to hold those opinions to yourself and leave others alone to their opinions. It tells us that the motive for what we all do is the worship of God, and whatsoever a born-again believer has in his heart toward God is accepted of God.

So, please: ENOUGH!

[micah719]

"It tells us the motive for what we all do is the worship of God, and whatsoever a born-again believer has in is heart toward God is accepted of God."

It isn't a private matter, it is one for the church as a body, because we are under attack from without and within. Hopefully by now you have learned that music is one of the main avenues by which leaven comes into even Godly churches, which are then corrupted. The already corrupt ones fall all the faster.

Worship is not about the worshiper, it is about Who is worshiped. The modern tendency is to worship man and the effect is entertainianity. God has spoken about what pleases Him and what does not, and it is not a matter of opinion and personal choice, and certainly not appropriate when we borrow the things of the world to do so.

If the thread is not to someone's taste, then they are free to ignore it. If there is an error, then certainly refute it. If it is against rules, then say so and I won't post. I have confined it to the forms and characteristics of music, apart from that one case study and the mention of Watt's music I'm not aware of mentioning any person in particular, certainly nobody on the forum. I for one have learnt much from the research, perhaps and hopefully I'm not alone. I have not condemned all music as I am accused of, but I am hoping that people will be more discerning about music in general and especially worship music in particular.

Adrian, the doctrinal matters you raise in your post are important, and they are all addressed by the music we listen to in attempting to worship. CCM cuts across all theological positions and congregations, and often with the intent to ecumenically bring them together. So far we should have seen in the various articles that it is not merely lyrics that are important, the medium is important as well. Sometimes even more important than what is sung, because of the effects. You are free to voice your opinions; I won't tell you to shut up from behind the Bible; and I don't like it when you do it about a matter that is important.

We are commanded to prove all things and hold fast to that which is good. COnsidering the importance of music, it is somewhat worrying that we pay so little attention to consciously inspecting it and what it does to us. Something that is apparent to me is that many complain about declining morals and rampaging apostacy and a constant barrage of error, but do not seek to uncover the problems at the root of these symptoms, and rail at people who do when it becomes evident that in various ways we ourselves, each and every one, are contributing in some way. This can be by participation, or by inaction.

1Th 5:14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.
1Th 5:15 See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.
1Th 5:16 Rejoice evermore.
1Th 5:17 Pray without ceasing.
1Th 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
1Th 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.
1Th 5:20 Despise not prophesyings.
1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
1Th 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 14 speaks of various things like food and festivals, and Christian liberty. Here is the limit and condition to that liberty:

Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Notice the condition of righteousness and the prominent place given to The Holy Spirit? That's precisely what I've attempted to address in this thread, the danger of another spirit coming into worship, the unrighteous filthy spirit of the world. There is a difference between joy and religious excstacy. In part, the CCM movement can be suspected of supplying experience to the unregenerate in place of true joy of salvation and spirit-led adoration of God. CCM cannot be declared as all-evil or all-good, therefore we need to discern and to be able to judge between good and bad music. About time we learned. Of course some will not like having their favourite thing shown to be unwholesome...but this thread is about characteristics of CCM music, not specifics about each and every source of it.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

In this thread I am talking about things, not people. I'm not here to argue, all I'm posting is material to support the theme of the thread, which is "The Moral Dangers of Popular and Contemporary Music". I believe I've supplied enough information now, from Christians and antiChristians, that should make it clear that it is not a minor matter. I'd like to continue to some kind of application, in the form of principles one may wish to consider in selecting music. Note the words "may wish to consider", meaning not laws, and optionality, meaning non-binding on anyone that happens to read them. Because, mark this: the optionality and non-bindingness has been declared, and it's opinion against opinion, so let the reader have discernment to choose. I choose not to read a lot of threads, and choose not to reply to much that is objectionable.



Continuing in the purpose of the thread, here are some instances where music crops up in the Bible:

Here in Amos The Lord hates the false worship of unrighteous professors. It does not comment on the form of the worship, the worship is rejected because of other hypocrisy and unrighteousness. Tying that into this thread, may I remind you that amidst the sweeping apostacy in the modern professing church, the same CCM is used by very differing congregations, including the likes of Osteen, Bentley, Furtick, Noble etc. Indeed, CCM features bridge songs specifically designed and openly declared to bring conservatives into the looser fold. And as the articles show, music has great power to transform. But, in relation to this Scripture passage, we can see that even a perfect form of worship will be rejected if the worshiper is out of order. Conversely, we know from the OT that even sincere worshipers choosing improper worship and showing lack of reverence and obedience suffered: the golden calf at Sinai, Nadab and Abihu, Korah, Uzzah and the ark, King Uzziah and the incense, the repeated idolatry of Israel.

Amo 5:14 Seek good, and not evil, that ye may live: and so the LORD, the God of hosts, shall be with you, as ye have spoken.
Amo 5:15 Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph.
Amo 5:16 Therefore the LORD, the God of hosts, the Lord, saith thus; Wailing shall be in all streets; and they shall say in all the highways, Alas! alas! and they shall call the husbandman to mourning, and such as are skilful of lamentation to wailing.
Amo 5:17 And in all vineyards shall be wailing: for I will pass through thee, saith the LORD.
Amo 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
Amo 5:19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.
Amo 5:20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?
Amo 5:21 I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies.
Amo 5:22 Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept them: neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts.
Amo 5:23 Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols.
Amo 5:24 But let judgment run down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream.
Amo 5:25 Have ye offered unto me sacrifices and offerings in the wilderness forty years, O house of Israel?
Amo 5:26 But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves.
Amo 5:27 Therefore will I cause you to go into captivity beyond Damascus, saith the LORD, whose name is The God of hosts.

Here The Lord is speaking to a Samaritan adulteress. Worship is to be in spirit and in truth. The articles posted in this thread seek to show that the spirit in much of CCM is not of God. The thread is an attempt to get at the truth so that our worship is proper and approved of God, not of men. Using CCM to infiltrate and transform congregations is deceptive, hence, not of the truth. The Samaritan may have been sincere and enthusiastic in worshiping on the hill of Samaria, but for naught. In our times, some poor schmuck may sincerely and enthusiastically go along with the emotion in a hyped up circus like Hinn's, but it won't be accepted. The Lord has not been silent on how He is to be worshiped, and He does not change.

Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Joh 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
Joh 4:26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

Next we see Neb. instituting idol worship with music as an integral component. Again, the form of the music is not addressed, but the connection is. If someone has a false image of God in their mind, it is an idol; and from the lyrics of much of the CCM and even some traditional hymns it can be seen that idols are being worshiped. For example, Isaac Watts was an anti-trinitarian, he wrote his songs to worship his idol and this music has been adopted by trinitarians. Ok, Watts' music does not speak against the Trinity, but it does not speak for Them either. It is useful for Unitarians as well as trinitarians. CCM is far worse than Watts' music.

Dan 3:1 Nebuchadnezzar the king made an image of gold, whose height was threescore cubits, and the breadth thereof six cubits: he set it up in the plain of Dura, in the province of Babylon.
Dan 3:2 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king sent to gather together the princes, the governors, and the captains, the judges, the treasurers, the counsellors, the sheriffs, and all the rulers of the provinces, to come to the dedication of the image which Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up.
Dan 3:3 Then the princes, the governors, and captains, the judges, the treasurers, the counsellors, the sheriffs, and all the rulers of the provinces, were gathered together unto the dedication of the image that Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up; and they stood before the image that Nebuchadnezzar had set up.
Dan 3:4 Then an herald cried aloud, To you it is commanded, O people, nations, and languages,
Dan 3:5 That at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up:
Dan 3:6 And whoso falleth not down and worshippeth shall the same hour be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace.


I'm pleased that the thread has grown so long. It is a rarity on RF to have a coherent discussion about anything for any length of time, at least on something more than joke threads. I'd rather it didn't degenerate into the usual ambush/censor/close trick.

[mattfivefour]

Ah yes, Isaac Watts. There is no other way to view him in his later life, as exposed by his own writings, than as a heretic in terms of doctrine. He leaned both to Arian and Unitarian views, though he began merely by trying to reconcile the differences between Christians on those doctrinal matters. Nonetheless, he gave us such hymns as Joy To The World; When I Survey the Wondrous Cross; We’re Marching to Zion; O God, Our Help in Ages Past; among others. And these were the basis of the complaint against him by some of churches leaders of the day. They complained not so much of his theology but that "his hymns were too worldly for the church." As one said, "Christian congregations have shut out divinely inspired psalms and have taken in Watts's flights of fancy!"

But all of this is off the topic. You write that this "thread is an attempt to get at the truth so that our worship is proper and approved of God, not of men." In support of this you take examples of God's condemnation of people who worshiped idols and denied God's Word and from that you attempt to apply that to Christians who worship God in this style of music that you and those whom you have read find improper. You then decide that just as God rejected the worship of those who were not His, so too He rejects the worship of those who use CCM. Not content with that, you then opine that "using CCM to infiltrate and transform congregations is deceptive, hence, not of the truth." And you judge Christians who do not agree with you on this topic, as you said earlier, "only Christian by profession (Lord, Lord...), and they deceive many that are." Thus your other statent that "all I'm posting is material to support the theme of the thread" is demonstrably not true.

Up to this point you have been allowed to put forward your views. But now, as I requested above: enough. Sufficient has been said to permit others to decide for themselves, after prayerful consideration. I am repeating that Romans 14 is very clear how you are to behave in the assembly and toward those who hold to different views than you. The principle is that you hold your views to yourself and do not judge those who believe otherwise. As I said earlier, we are not talking about cardinal doctrines but rather how to worship our God and Savior. A person who has strong scruples about food that had been offered to idols or who passionately believes that certain days are, or are not, to be respected, can find all sorts of scriptural passages with which to support their views. Yet God says very clearly in Romans 14 that they are not to. I trust you will heed that injunction.

If anybody else has views they would like to put forward in this thread, then they are welcome to do so. However, brother, there is no more need for you to further belabor your point. We understand it. But when you moved it from a position of your personal belief to a position that those who refuse to accept your argument are deceived and deceivers, then you have crossed the line into unscriptural practice. And that will not be permitted.

[Hannah]

Man looks on the outward appearance but God looks upon the heart.

1SA 16:7 But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."


What is acceptable to God?

HOS 6:6 For I desire mercy, not sacrifice,
and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.


PR 21:3 To do what is right and just
is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice.

RO 12:1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God--this is your spiritual act of worship. 2 Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will.



The Lord knows the heart of those who worship Him and he can tell whose worship is genuine and whose is not.

I am not saying that we should not discern what is right and wrong when it comes to worship. Not every form of worship performed by Christians correct. Some followers of God in the Old Testament choose to use pagan rituals to worship God including child scarifice. Well that is totally unacceptable and some Christian practices of today are as well. No One here on this thread are supporting a Pagan or openly Ungodly practice of worship.

However, who are we to judge what God will accept or not accept a person who uses Contemporary Christian music for their worship of God. As I have said before. If the words are scriptural and honouring to God and the way it is performed is again scriptural and honouring to God then there is not reason to complain.

King David was critised for his worship of God. However, King David's worship of God while a little unconventional it was sincere. I think this is the perfect example to say who are we to judge another person's worship of God if they are truly doing so from their hearts.

2SA 6:12 Now King David was told, "The LORD has blessed the household of Obed-Edom and everything he has, because of the ark of God." So David went down and brought up the ark of God from the house of Obed-Edom to the City of David with rejoicing. 13 When those who were carrying the ark of the LORD had taken six steps, he sacrificed a bull and a fattened calf. 14 David, wearing a linen ephod, danced before the LORD with all his might, 15 while he and the entire house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouts and the sound of trumpets.

2SA 6:16 As the ark of the LORD was entering the City of David, Michal daughter of Saul watched from a window. And when she saw King David leaping and dancing before the LORD, she despised him in her heart.

2SA 6:17 They brought the ark of the LORD and set it in its place inside the tent that David had pitched for it, and David sacrificed burnt offerings and fellowship offerings before the LORD. 18 After he had finished sacrificing the burnt offerings and fellowship offerings, he blessed the people in the name of the LORD Almighty. 19 Then he gave a loaf of bread, a cake of dates and a cake of raisins to each person in the whole crowd of Israelites, both men and women. And all the people went to their homes.

2SA 6:20 When David returned home to bless his household, Michal daughter of Saul came out to meet him and said, "How the king of Israel has distinguished himself today, disrobing in the sight of the slave girls of his servants as any vulgar fellow would!"

2SA 6:21 David said to Michal, "It was before the LORD, who chose me rather than your father or anyone from his house when he appointed me ruler over the LORD's people Israel--I will celebrate before the LORD. 22 I will become even more undignified than this, and I will be humiliated in my own eyes. But by these slave girls you spoke of, I will be held in honor."

2SA 6:23 And Michal daughter of Saul had no children to the day of her death.

[Meg]

Thank you both, Matt and Hannah. And thank You Lord for letting me be who and what I am... The first couple of years I was a Christian, I wondered sometimes what would I do for music. When I reached the point of full, never-gonna-look-back commitment to Jesus Christ, I gave away a very comprehensive rock & roll collection. The crowd at the library book sale were thrilled... I had, I think, just one Eden's Bridge cassette tape for a while. For the first year or so, I had 4 or 5 total CD's I was willing to listen to. I had then and have now, some "CCM" material that would never "pass" the legalistic scrutniny of the hard line legalists in this thread. But they pass the Holy Spirit sniff test just fine thank you, I know what conviction feels like and I have never been convicted for keeping and enjoying the music artists I treasure. Quite to the contrary, many of such songs have enriched my prayer life, saved my sanity and been sung during informal worship sessions around the house. I thank God deeply for each and every artist who have played music I can relate to. If you don't like an artist, don't listen to them, but don't go telling someone else they can't or shouldn't listen to Christian music just because you don't personally like electric guitar or whatever. That is unfair at best and destructive at worst!

[ANY MINUTE]

Something I find so amazing and humbling, and I still can't fully understand it is this. The scriptures are very clear that God is in need of nothing, not lacking in any way. Yet through His grace, mercy,and love, He provided the only way possible for us to partake in who and what He is. Jesus Christ and Him crucified. My point is that outside out Jesus and the salvation He offers, and everything that was accomplished at the cross, there is nothing we can do in our own effort that would please Him. He is our source of our everything!

What really blows my mind is the fact that He provides everything needed and required, and it is expressed in many personal forms within true faith. The God that so rightfully deserves our praise and worship, is also the very source of that praise and worship.

That is why I would be carefull in judging someones expression of worship (within clear biblical instruction, of course). You may find yourself trying to pass judgement on God Himself, our source of everything that He requires. The lost, unsaved, or even apostate man can do nothing to please God. The saved, born again Christian can't please God in their own effort. He really is the source of all He desires. That still wars against my flesh, but it is true.

[arapahoepark]

I still can't believe this is going on....
We all know some music can tempt people to move to liberalism like the emergent church or seeker friendly churches. They do indeed worship music as an idol or at least can and no doubt some do and it is perhaps the only reason some of them go to church.
This does not mean CCM is harmful, it can have a good beat and a good message. It can have a good beat (to my generation) and a wrong message. Now let me quote from Tim Keller (yes he has some good things to say others not so much but he hits the nail on the head).
"1. In an article for the Gospel Coalition, pastor and author Tim Keller offers this potent definition of sin: "Sin isn't only doing bad things, it is more fundamentally making good things into ultimate things. Sin is building your life and meaning on anything, even a very good thing, more than on God. Whatever we build our life on will drive us and enslave us. Sin is primarily idolatry."

2. In his bestseller The Reason for God, Keller further develops this line of thought, showing the reader examples of the "particular kinds of brokenness and damage" caused by idolatry:

a. If you center your life and identity on your spouse or partner, you will be emotionally dependent, jealous, and controlling. The other person's problems will be overwhelming to you.

b. If you center your life and identity on your family and children, you will try to live your life through your children until they resent you or have no self of their own. At worst, you may abuse them when they displease you.

c. If you center your life and identity on your work and career, you will be a driven workaholic and a boring, shallow person. At worst you will lose family and friends and, if your career goes poorly, develop deep depression.

d. If you center your life and identity on money and possessions, you'll be eaten up by worry or jealousy about money. You'll be willing to do unethical things to maintain your lifestyle, which will eventually blow up your life.

e. If you center your life and identity on pleasure, gratification, and comfort, you will find yourself getting addicted to something. You will become chained to the "escape strategies" by which you avoid the hardness of life.

f. If you center your life and identity on relationships and approval, you will be constantly overly hurt by criticism and thus always losing friends. You will fear confronting others and therefore will be a useless friend.

g. If you center your life and identity on a "noble cause," you will divide the world into "good" and "bad" and demonize your opponents. Ironically, you will be controlled by your enemies. Without them, you have no purpose.

h. If you center your life and identity on religion and morality, you will, if you are living up to your moral standards, be proud, self-righteous, and cruel. If you don't live up to your moral standards, your guilt will be utterly devastating."

So basically, anything can become an idol despite it being inherently good. Same goes for music whatever the message or beat. Hymns which have no instruments can become an IDOL! Unfortunately, I see this threat going that way...hymns are the only way to worship God! That seems like its idolatry doesn't it?
Now of course all this seeker friendly stuff we need to be weary about, but not all of it is wrong, beat or otherwise. What about the cultures who worship God with their own instruments that would sound like dissonance to us????
We need to be careful about the message of all songs and not idolize it or it's beat. CCM I would argue is inherently good for these reasons.

[GlennO]

My 5th version….. this topic riles my flesh. Interesting, that as I was composing a fiery dart, I pondered the meat of the message our Pastor/Teacher’s brought today, and I believe (and hope) our Comforter pushed the application down deeper. I’ll just offer the scripture as I believe it is on point.

1Pe 1:13-25
(13) Therefore, preparing your minds for action, and being sober-minded, set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
(14) As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance,
(15) but as he who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,
(16) since it is written, "You shall be holy, for I am holy."
(17) {since} you call on him as Father who judges impartially according to each one's deeds, conduct yourselves with fear throughout the time of your exile,
(18) knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold,
(19) but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.
(20) He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you
(21) who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
(22) Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for a sincere brotherly love, love one another earnestly from a pure heart,
(23) since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;
(24) for "All flesh is like grass and all its glory like the flower of grass. The grass withers, and the flower falls,
(25) but the word of the Lord remains forever." And this word is the good news that was preached to you.


If you want really desire to confine worship to a uniform and authorized style there many Roman Churches in a neighborhood near you….

I’m with David…

2Sa 6:14-23
(14) And David danced before the LORD with all his might. And David was wearing a linen ephod.
(15) So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting and with the sound of the horn.
(16) As the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal the daughter of Saul looked out of the window and saw King David leaping and dancing before the LORD, and she despised him in her heart.
(17) And they brought in the ark of the LORD and set it in its place, inside the tent that David had pitched for it. And David offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the LORD.
(18) And when David had finished offering the burnt offerings and the peace offerings, he blessed the people in the name of the LORD of hosts
(19) and distributed among all the people, the whole multitude of Israel, both men and women, a cake of bread, a portion of meat, and a cake of raisins to each one. Then all the people departed, each to his house.
(20) And David returned to bless his household. But Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David and said, "How the king of Israel honored himself today, uncovering himself today before the eyes of his servants' female servants, as one of the vulgar fellows shamelessly uncovers himself!"
(21) And David said to Michal, "It was before the LORD, who chose me above your father and above all his house, to appoint me as prince over Israel, the people of the LORD--and I will make merry before the LORD.
(22) I will make myself yet more contemptible than this, and I will be abased in your eyes. But by the female servants of whom you have spoken, by them I shall be held in honor."
(23) And Michal the daughter of Saul had no child to the day of her death.