Results 1 to 6 of 6

Thread: Review of Love Wins

  1. #1
    arapahoepark's Avatar
    arapahoepark is offline Citizen
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    934

    Default Review of Love Wins

    Apprising Ministries
    Apprising Ministries has been blessed of Jesus to be used as one of His leading online apologetics and discernment works for coverage of the warped and toxic teachings of EC leaders like the Emerging Church rock star pastor Rob Bell.

    Sadly, mainstream evangelicalism became spiritually spineless and embraced the sinfully ecumenical neo-liberal cult of the Emergent Church aka the Emerging Church, now upgraded to 2.0 with its newer, more clearly delineated, postmodern Progressive Christian theology, which these rebels against the final authority of the Word of God will often refer to under their circus “big tent” as Emergence Christianity.

    Years of poisoning its own young by using EC teachings in their Young Adult and Youth groups has opened the door for its pro-gay agenda and its non-gospel of universalism right within the heart of younger sectors of evangelicalism. That’s why lately I’ve been giving you peeks at its bleak future of division and compromise of God’s Word; and for nearly six years now, in articles like Is Rob Bell Evangelical? and Rob Bell Is Definitely Not Like Jesus, I’ve been warning you that Bell’s doctrine is not at all in line with the historic orthodox Christian faith.

    For exampIe, reminded you in New Book May Cause Rift At Mars Hill Bible Church Of Rob Bell that two years ago I brought to your attention in Rob Bell And Christian Universalism that, in my opinion, Bell been leaning toward this Christian Universalism, which is also known as Universal Reconciliation/Redemption.

    For many of those who do believe this heresy—with its false gospel—there is actually a literal hell in their view; but they dream, after each is punished temporally eventually hell will be empty. I’ve also pointed out that this mythology is actually as old as the heretical Origen of Alexandria. Against this backdrop I’ll now point you to Love Wins – A Review of Rob Bell’s New Book by Tim Challies, along with his “friend Aaron Armstrong who writes at Blogging Theologically.”

    If Love Wins accurately represents Bell’s views on heaven and hell (at least if our understanding of the book accurately represents his views on heaven and hell), it reveals him as a proponent of a kind of Christian Universalism. He would deny the label as he tends to deny any label. But if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, well, you know how it goes.

    As soon as the door is opened to Muslims. Hindus, Buddhists, and Baptists from Cleveland, many Christians become very uneasy, saying that then Jesus doesn’t matter anymore, the cross is irrelevant, it doesn’t matter what you believe, and so forth.

    Not true.
    Absolutely, unequivocally, unalterably not true.

    What Jesus does is declare that he,
    and he alone,
    is saving everybody.

    And then he leaves the door way, way open. Creating all sorts of possibilities. He is as narrow as himself and as wide as the universe.



    People come to Jesus in all sorts of ways.



    Sometimes people use his name;
    other times they don’t.



    Some people have so much baggage with regard to the name “Jesus” that when they encounter the mystery present in all of creation—grace, peace, love, acceptance, healing, forgiveness—the last thing they are inclined to name it is “Jesus.”



    What we see Jesus doing again and again—in the midst of constant reminders about the seriousness of following him living like him, and trusting him—is widening the scope and expanse of his saving work.

    That is what we know as universalism. And it is cause for mourning.

    Christians do not need more confusion. They need clarity. They need teachers who are willing to deal honestly with what the Bible says, no matter how hard that truth is. And let’s be honest—many truths are very, very hard to swallow.

    Love does win, but not the kind of love that Bell talks about in this book. The love he describes is one that is founded solely on the idea that the primary object of God’s love is man; indeed, the whole story, he writes, can be summed up in these words: “For God so loved the world.” But this doesn’t hold a candle to the altogether amazing love of God as actually shown in the Bible. (Online source)

    You can read this review in its entirety right here.

    See also:

    THROUGH ROB BELL “THE GREAT ENLIGHTENED ONES” TELL US MAN HAS DIVINE GREATNESS

    LATEST ON FIRESTORM AROUND ROB BELL

    ROB BELL AND SHANE HIPPS TEACHING MYSTICISM

    Apprising Ministries

  2. #2
    arapahoepark's Avatar
    arapahoepark is offline Citizen
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    934

    Default Re: Review of Love Wins

    Rob Bell is a lunatic, I have nothing further to add

  3. #3
    JasonG is offline Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    73

    Default Re: Review of Love Wins

    Here is another review on the book. I have been following this blog for a week or so now. I like how the writer uses great care to not come off as vehemently against Bell. While I do not agree with Bell at all, sometimes the way people refute an apostate can instantly turn off someone who doesn't know either way. The review below uses direct quotes and the writer attempts to discern what Bell is really trying to say. After that, he uses scripture to reveal the inconsistancy of what Bell is teaching compared to God's Word.

    Praise the Name of our God and King! For "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness."

    Father God, how I love your Word! How I love you! You are so precious to me. Bless your name Lord. All praise honor and glory are due to you. Thank you for your Love. Thank you for your Son. Thank you for your Holy Spirit. Hallelujah. Praise You Yahweh.

    Isn't our God awesome?!

    The Tenth Leper

    Review: “Love Wins” by Rob Bell, Part IV: The Robbellian View of Man
    Posted by thetenthleper in Book Reviews on March 9, 2011

    At the start of the book’s fourth chapter (“Does God Get What God Wants?”), Bell quotes doctrinal statements from several unnamed churches’ websites. The first round of quotes has to do with the fate of the unsaved: “The unsaved will be separated forever from God in hell.” Another: “Those who believe in Jesus will be sent to eternal punishment in hell.” And finally: “The unsaved dead will be committed to an eternal conscious punishment.” “All this,” he writes, “on a website. Welcome to our church.” (pp.97-98) He continues:

    “Yet on these very same websites are extensive affirmations of the goodness and greatness of God, proclamations and statements of belief about a God who is ‘mighty,’ ‘powerful,’ ‘loving,’ ‘unchanging,’ ‘sovereign,’ ‘full of grace and mercy,’ and ‘all-knowing.’ This God is the one who created ‘the world and everything in it.’ This is the God for whom ‘all things are possible.’ I point out these parallel claims: that God is mighty, powerful, and ‘in control’ and that billions of people will spend forever apart from this God, who is their creator, even though it’s written in the Bible that ‘God wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth’ (1 Tim.2). So does God get what God wants?” (pp.98-99) And again on page 100 he asks: “Will all people be saved, or will God not get what God wants?”

    As the quotes above indicate, he seems to believe that this definition of Hell is irreconcileable with the idea of an all-powerful, all-loving God. History is tragic if it all ends with billions of people “suffering infinitely for the finite sins they committed in the few years they spent on earth…” It means that God simply gave up his pursuit of sinners. (p.104) This idea of Hell also doesn’t make for a very good story. ”Telling a story about a God who inflicts unrelenting punishment on people because they didn’t do or say or believe the correct things in a brief window of time called life isn’t a very good story.” (p.112)

    Bell’s challenge to the popular view of Hell appears to be rooted in his conception of God as the Father of every person. For instance, imagine a person gets hit by a car and dies later the same day. If they didn’t believe in Jesus, and God was forced to send them to unending, conscious torment in hell, then “God would, in essence, become a fundamentally different being to them in that moment of death, a different being to them forever. A loving heavenly father who will go to extraordinary lengths to have a relationship with them would, in the blink of an eye, become a cruel, mean vicious tormenter who would ensure that they had no escape from an endless future of agony. If there was an earthly father who was like that, we could call the authorities. If there was an actual human dad who was that volatile, we would contact child protection services immediately. If God can switch gears like that…that raises a thousand questions about whether a being like this could ever be trusted, let alone be good. Loving one moment, vicious the next. Kind and compassionate, only to become cruel and relentless in the blink of an eye. Does God become somebody totally different the moment you die? The kind of God is simply devastating. Psychologically crushing. We can’t bear it. No one can.” (pp.175-176)

    I’m in full agreement with Bell that this view of God is a caricature. Happy, loving, and in full pursuit of us, only to become a severely vicious and angry God…all because we stop breathing. That is the view of God often presented in our culture, even if only subtlely. But while I do agree with Bell that this view is inaccurate, I disagree with him on why. At least I think I do. Citing verses like Malachi 2:10 and Acts 17:28, Bell observes that the “writers of the scriptures consistently affirm that we’re all part of the same family. What we have in common- regardless of our tribe, language, customs, beliefs, or religion- outweights our differences. This is why God wants ‘all people to be saved.’ History is about the kind of love a parent has for a child, the kind of love that pursues, searches, creates, connects, and bonds. The kind of love that moves toward, embraces, and always works to be reconciled with, regardless of the cost.” (p.101)

    It sounds like Bell’s criticism of the caricature God two paragraphs up is that a loving God suddenly becomes wrathful. He argues that our heavenly Father isn’t that unstable. My criticism with the caricature though is that it assumes we all have a Father-child relationship with God. I argued in Part III that by nature we are God’s enemies and thus we don’t have that Father-child relationship. The important difference here is that in the interpretation I’m advocating, God’s wrath isn’t something that begins suddenly upon death. We are all by nature sinners, and as those who have descended from Adam (every human being), we deserve God’s wrath. The state of spiritual death we’re in is the backdrop of God’s love and mercy. That love is seen in the context of the Hell that we deserve. The love of God and the wrath of God are not two mutually exclusive ideas, but two realities we must come to terms with. The greatest demonstration of this love (the cross) involves the outpouring of God’s wrath, just not on the people who deserved it but on the one person who ever lived that didn’t.

    In Numbers 21, the story is told of the Israelites complaining yet again as they wandered through the wilderness. Same old complaint: “Egypt was better. Following God is lame.” As punishment, God sent among the people fiery serpents who began to bite the people of Israel so that many of them died. Realizing the folly of their ways, they repented and begged Moses to pray on their behalf. Moses did so, and the Lord listened. He commanded Moses, “Make a fiery serpent and set it on a pole, and everyone who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live.” (Numbers 21:8) If any Israelite was bitten by a serpent, they only had to look at the bronze serpent on the pole and they would be healed. Now everyone and their pet iguana knows John 3:16 (“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.”), but we tend to forget about John 3:14-15- “‘And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.’” In Numbers, it was people who were perishing that needed to look upon the serpent. And in John 3, Jesus is comparing salvation to that incident. We often interpret “For God so loved the world” to mean “God loved the world SOOOOOO much”, but that’s not the function of the word translated “so.” That word in Greek (outōs) means “thus” or “in this way.” ”In this way, God loved the world…” As perishing people were healed by looking at the bronze serpent, so Hell-bound sinners will be healed by looking at the Son of God. God did not send his Son to condemn the world, because the world already stands condemned now (John 3:17-18, 36).

    Connected with this thought is the doctrine of God’s fatherhood. Bell paints God’s pursuit of sinners as a father’s pursuit of his children. Granted, there is a sense in which all human beings are children of God (Acts 17:28). But what he doesn’t mention is the different ways in which that term is applied to God. Just as the word “church” can have different meanings depending on context (the worldwide Church or a local body of believers), so does “Father” when applied to God. He is Father to his one true Son, Jesus. He is Father to the people of Israel (Exodus 4:22-23, Deuteronomy 14:1, Malachi 2:10). And as we’ve seen, he is Father to all created things (Acts 17:28-29, Luke 3:38). But God’s fatherhood is displayed in far more intimate terms in the New Testament than just Creator-creatures. To those who have looked on the Son and been healed, he has given his Spirit to live in them. God’s children are those who are led by the Spirit and who, by that Spirit, cry out to him “Abba! Father!” (Romans 8:14, Galatians 4:6). Those who believe in Jesus are given the right to become children of God (John 1:12).

    God sent his Son into the world not to pursue children but to pursue sinners so that he might make them his children. So for God to allow anyone to suffer an eternity apart from him isn’t the same as saying that he’s abandoned his children. While it’s true in one sense that all men are God’s children, there is a far deeper and more important sense of God’s fatherhood found in Scripture which very clearly does not apply to every person. Some men have God as their father. Others have the devil as theirs (see John 8:44, 1 John 3:10). Sonship in its most important sense is something which has its beginning in salvation and is distinctive of believers in Christ (John 1:12, Ephesians 5:1, Philippians 2:15, 1 Peter 1:14, 2:10, 1 John 3:1).

    What’s the moral of all this? The moral is that God is not the kind of Father who children come to only to be kicked out onto the streets for their rest of their lives because they didn’t agree with him on something. The picture in the Bible is not that people come to God’s door but that they’re running from it. And God goes on the hunt to save some. The “some” he saves are those who respond to his call to turn to him. Not all people make that response. A question that every believer should ask themselves is this: “Which is unfair- Heaven or Hell?” The beauty of the Gospel is that it is spectacularly unfair. People will often claim it’s unfair that we’ve inherited the guilt from Adam’s sin. Sure, it stinks. Because he sinned, he doomed us all and we come into this world as fallen creatures. We reap the reward of our representative head. Lame. But is it? The good news is that this same logic applies to our salvation. God sent Jesus into the world to save sinners by becoming a new representative. Just as we’re sinners because of Adam, now we’re righteous in God’s sight because of Jesus (Romans 5:12-21). Think of that: God looks on you and sees Jesus’ perfect life. Not bad. It’s not fair that a perfect man suffered the wrath of God for imperfect people. It’s not fair that we get rewarded for his perfect life. But who’s really going to complain? We shouldn’t wonder how a loving God could send people to Hell. We should wonder how a just and holy God could send anyone to Heaven.

    I say it all because it’s an important perspective to keep in mind when dealing with the topic of Hell. I don’t know for sure if all this is stuff that Bell would disagree with, but on page 104 he does write: “Is God our friend, our provider, our protector, our father- or is God the kind of judge who may in the end declare that we deserve to spend forever separated from our Father?” Regardless of whose question this really is (Bell’s or if he’s just playing devil’s advocate), it presents a view of God’s fatherhood which is inconsistent with Scripture, which in turn makes Hell harder to understand. 2 Thessalonians 1:9 says of those who do not know God that they “will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might”. Bell’s view of man makes it easier to see eternal torment as the result of an abusive Father. But God is not the bad guy. He’s the good guy who redeems bad guys. Bell’s picture of love seems to be: “God won’t allow anyone to go through that.” But the biblical picture of love is knowing that Jesus went through that and for his enemies. In other words, God’s love is greatly demonstrated in the quality of the people he saved rather than the quantity (Romans 5:8). That’s love.

    This understanding of God’s fatherhood also colors Bell’s discussion (and his understanding, it seems) of Hell and its duration. That’s next.
    .

  4. #4
    myinnuendo999 is offline Citizen
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Dothan, Alabama
    Posts
    2,317

    Default Re: Review of Love Wins

    Rob Bell is committing Idolatry. He has fashioned and molded an image in his own image in his imagination and has rejected the True God of the Bible and has refused to bow his Knee to God's word as final authority


    What People "like to do is take bits of God’s character that they don’t like and then they create a picture of God that’s abhorrent to them" quote from Ray Comfort- <<--such as Rob Bell's tyrant God that "sends people to hell if you don't believe in Jesus"---That's a straw-man argument and Begging the question-- cause according to God's word we are ALREADY going to hell God does NOT send us there-John 3:18. Peruse Scripture---

    quote from Ray Comfort-"What normally happens in idolatry is "this My God" and my God would never send anyone to hell. Idolatry normally takes the attributes of God that are attractive to people such as God is love, merciful and kind, and makes an idol out of God with no sense of Justice and truth. They take his justice and judgment that they don’t like and then they create a god in their own mind-that doesn’t even exist, and then they throw him away and say, if that’s your God I don’t want to have nothing to do with Him. Well, they’re doing the right thing because their image of god is erroneous and has no mercy or love or kindness. Their god didn’t lavish his love upon humanity."

    And so if you do not have that balanced understanding God’s true nature, then obviously you’re going to get a spurious understanding of who God really is and think God is a tyrant". end quote

    Emphatic Fallacy


    Rob Bell is in Serious danger of hell because he refuses to believe the truth of his true condition that we are born with. Scripture clearly and unambiguously states that we are sinners from Birth --Psalm 51:5 "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me."Genesis 8:21"Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood" we are SEPARATED from God by our sins-Col 1:21 "Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.

    Rom 3:10 As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;
    Rom 3:11 there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.
    Rom 3:12 All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."

    Rob Bell also has a serious problem along with all universalists with the authority of God's word. God COMMANDS all men to Repent and trust in His Son to save us---Act 17:30 "In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent."


    Jesus warned of hell if we don't repent. Rob Bell is lying or Jesus is lying. We know Jesus didn't lie and that He was sinless and God in human flesh and he warned us about hell. So who would be credible to believe? Who backed up his claims? Rob or Jesus? Who is the Only SAVIOR Rob or Jesus? Scripture says in Acts 4:12 "that Salvation is found in NO ONE ELSE. For there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we MUST BE SAVED." JESUS CHRIST--of Scripture, The Gospel according to Scripture-1 Cor.15- according to the Whole counsel of God's word

    Rob Bell presents a question as "if" it's not been answered already by Jesus Himself

    "Do only a select few go to heaven"?

    well yes according to God's word that's clearly answered--

    In Luke 13:24 Jesus already has answered the question about do only a few go to heaven.

    "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. “Then you will say, “We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.” But he will reply, “I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers! There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.”

    where do these people go? to hell---the gnashing of teeth and weeping is certainly not heaven..


    Mat 13:41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. Mat 13:42 They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Mat 13:43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear. Mat 13:44 "The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field.

    Matthew 25:31-41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.----- thru to verse 46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

    Jesus said let NO MAN DECEIVE YOU-Matthew 24:4-- that includes Rob Bell who is deceiving himself.

    People need to put their trust in Jesus who rose bodily from the grave and backed up all he said is valid and true. On HIM-Jesus God has placed His seal of approval-John 6:27

    Until Rob Bell dies and rises from the dead bodily from the grave I wouldn't trust anything he says is true

    WE only have this life to get it RIGHT for --,," it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:Hebrews 9:27
    Rob Bell is in rebellion and contradiction to Jesus Christ.
    Last edited by myinnuendo999; March-10th-2011 at 11:56 AM. Reason: correct spelling and errors

  5. #5
    arapahoepark's Avatar
    arapahoepark is offline Citizen
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    934

    Default Re: Review of Love Wins

    Quote Originally Posted by myinnuendo999 View Post

    Until Rob Bell dies and rises from the dead bodily from the grave I wouldn't trust anything he says is true
    But according to our understanding, this would probably be a trick, as Satan can come as an angel of life.

    Anyway I get what your saying, have you posted that anywhere else too? It's something that really needs to be brought before the world.

  6. #6
    myinnuendo999 is offline Citizen
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Dothan, Alabama
    Posts
    2,317

    Default Re: Review of Love Wins

    Anyway I get what your saying, have you posted that anywhere else too? It's something that really needs to be brought before the world.
    Dear arapahoepark,, yes I have presented This truth in some of my apologetic writings. It is astounding the number of people that posit their hope, trust and life in men and women who are imperfect and have never been on the other side of the grave rather than placing their whole lives, trust and hope in Jesus to save them since Jesus backed up the Bible is true when He rose bodily from the grave

    A.W. Pink said a very profound truth that I think sadly describes people today moreso than ever-“ with many it is because they are willing for Christ to save them from hell, but are not willing for Him to save them from self."

    Also, this psychology bit in our society is not biblical. all it has produced are a bunch of narcissists which is one of the signs of people in the last days being lovers of SELF-2 Timothy 3:2.--
    one doesn’t need to be saved from one’s own sins as much as from the sins of others
    -From Dr Walter Martin’s book “kingdom of the Cults”

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •