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Project Interfaith supporter and leader of a Omaha willow creek association church defends Rob Bell
not surprising.
robert murphy is a supporter of project interfaith (a group that wants all christians to become universalists
and is a leader at a omaha nebraska willow creek association church
when is Murphy and other apologists in Omaha admit that Rob Bell is a Universalist and has been known as a Universalist since at least 2007
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RamHatter: Rob Bell, Mother Teresa & Hell
Saturday, March 05, 2011
Rob Bell, Mother Teresa & Hell
It's been fascinating to watch the online discussion, debate, and vitriol, over Rob Bell* this past week.
*If you don't know, Rob Bell is a pastor, author, speaker, artist and more. He has a new book coming out later this month called Love Wins.
In a recently released promo for Love Wins, Bell remarks about someone leaving a note that Gandhi was "in Hell".
He then poses questions about Hell, God, judgment and love. Right after the promo was released, a blog post went up that ignited the firestorm. Many have taken Bell's comments, in this promo, as evidence he is a universalist now. Bell was already one of the more polarizing figures in Christianity before this, and that is a factor with people making the assumption he's a universalist before they read the book.*
*If they ever do read it.
I have a number of thoughts about this event that has unfolded, but I'm going to stick primarily to one for this post. I'll have a few additional, but brief, thoughts at the end of the post. I don't want to add to the "noise" that's already online. If you want to delve into the issue more, Scot McKnight has a thorough post about Rob Bell, and universalism, up on his blog that I'd recommend.
One thing that came to mind, on Thursday, was a campaign I helped create and launch at Christ Community Church back in 2006. The campaign launched RISKS, the new discipleship paradigm at CCC. In launching the campaign, we referenced individuals who have had worldwide impact through their work. Their work was motivated by Jesus. One of the things I wanted to do with the campaign was use some non-traditional people with the campaign, an individual like Mother Teresa.
To some that may seem like a traditional person to use for a church, but for CCC's culture it was non-traditional. Her, along with others, were put on posters and placed around the church with a quote by them.
There was blowback in using Mother Teresa, along with using some of the other individuals.* A number of the posters were graffitied. I'm not sure why, but I kept some of them. I have them stored in my cellar.
*The details as to why there was such angst, from a minority of the congregation, over using Mother Teresa can't be covered in a single sentence. Perhaps another time.
When watching the Love Wins promo again Thursday, and hearing Bell talk about the note someone left about Gandhi, I thought of the graffitied posters. I pulled out the graffitied Mother Teresa poster, Thursday night, to take a look at it. Here's a pic.
My thoughts on the judgment someone rendered about Mother Teresa? Well, I'm not sure I want to explore those within this post either. I was intrigued by the connection between a detail in Rob Bell's promo for Love Wins, and a detail from the launch of RISKS. I wanted to note the connection with this post.
What do I think about Rob Bell and his statements? If I had to guess, which is what most people are doing right now in their opinions, I would guess it is a marketing ploy. Could I be wrong? Of course I could. Still, I think it is a well-orchestrated marketing campaign. Bell's detractors (and fans) are doing all the publicity for him and his new book. I think his publishers knew that, and planned for it with this promotional campaign.
I think Rob Bell is a good speaker, artist and storyteller.
Someone once asked me how I could be Facebook fans of both Rob Bell and Mark Driscoll. I responded along the lines of, "I didn't realize I had to choose."
If Rob Bell doesn't stake a universalist position within his new book, I wonder if people who have been so open in their antagonism toward him, this past week, will be as open in communicating an apology or a retraction?
I look forward to reading what Rob Bell has to say in his book, as opposed to reading and hearing what others believe he is going to say. I don't think I would have cared much about his new book if it weren't for the controversy.*
RamHatter: Rob Bell, Mother Teresa & Hell
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article that Robert Murphy and others in Omaha and others who defend Rob Bell ought to read
No Tolerance of False Teachers Or Apostates
Here comes Jesus at His Second Coming and it is a massacre of all the ungodly on the face of the earth.
And they are all together at that point judged and executed physically. And then...and we'll say more about this in a little bit.
There is a kingdom of a thousand years. At the end of that kingdom is the tribunal to which all those spirits in torment are brought and the judgment is made final and they receiving a body suited for eternal punishment are then cast into their eternal torment. That is a picture of judgment.
Let's go back then to Jude and what turns out to be a rather provocative reference that Jude uses to this judgment. Black darkness, divine judgment awaits these false teachers.
In fact, verse 14 begins, "And about these, also Enoch in the seventh generation from Adam prophesied saying, 'Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones to execute judgment.'"
About these...these refers back to the hidden reefs of verse 12,
the clouds without water, the autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead and uprooted, the wild waves of the sea, the wandering stars, the false teachers, the apostates for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever, about these, Enoch prophesied the Lord would come to execute judgment.
This then is the final touch on their portrait. And this really is the most important component because not that we might know the fact of judgment, but that we might understand that the fact of judgment gives us God's view of these false teachers.
How severe are we to deal with them? How severe does God deal with them? You cannot be accommodating.
You cannot be tolerant.
You cannot be accepting. You cannot be open. You cannot be welcoming.
We remember, don't we, from John's epistle that if you bid, "God's speed" to a false teacher, you become a partaker in his evil deed.
Any deceiver fits into this category, any false teacher, any apostate. And this is how God Himself feels about them and therefore it's about how we must feel about them, not that we can execute judgment on them, not that we want to burn them at the stake, as has been done in the past, not that we want to string them up or crucify them.
Not that we want to take them to the guillotine. Not that we want to take vengeance into our own hands, but we must view false teachers the way our Lord God views them.
~ John MacArthur on Apostates and their Judgment
Definitly NOT what many "Christians" say we should do--listen to the "good" parts of false teachers nor are we to "throw out the baby with the bath water" even though God commanded we shouldn't even GREET such a person.
Gal 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. 10 For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.
1Jn 2:22 Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also. ..26 I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you.
2Jo 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.
1Co 5:11 But now I am writing to you NOT TO ASSOCIATE with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler--not even to eat with such a one.
Matthew 7:15-17 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit.
Surph's Side: No Tolerance of False Teachers Or Apostates
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