Emergent Blogger and Anti-Discernment Zealot Michael Newnham slams Ken Silva for using Discernment

[billiefan2000]

NEWNHAM: NO CORRECTION WANTED?
By Ken Silva pastor-teacher on May 18, 2010 in Current Issues

Apprising Ministries brings to your attention an odd post at Phoenix Preacher called Silva: No Correction Wanted, which seems like it may be related to Emergent Church Leaders And ODMS—Online Discernment Ministries. As you can see below that’s an interesting choice of a graphic pastor Michael Newnham has chosen to use:



I’m really not exactly sure what pastor Newnham’s issue is because he’s told us, “With the current controversy surrounding Leonard Sweets appearance at a worship conference in Albuquerque, I sought out Dr. Sweet to inquire about what had happened.” And then pastor Newnham goes on to inform us, “I’m grateful and honored to call Leonard Sweet my brother.”[1] And as I pointed out in Emergent Church Leaders And ODMS—Online Discernment Ministries he’s also said, “Leonard Sweet denounces the ‘new age’ teachings they brand him with and he’s publicly criticized the emergent movement.”

And yet in the aforementioned no correction post pastor Newnham opines:

I told our readers that Dr. Sweet had been taken off the speakers list over a week ago. You wonder why? The onslaught from you and your fellow ODM’s. (Online source)

Hmm, then we’re left to wonder; if Leonard Sweet is as orthodox as pastor Newnham suggest, then why is it he was taken off of the speaker list in the first place? Pastor Newnham repeatedly says of me:

More odd to me is the fact that although Dr.Sweet has answered all your concerns you still continue to slander him… My question to Silva is why he insists on continuing to slander a man… (Online source)

Rather than deal with the facts in evidence, e.g. in the case of Sweet the Leonard Sweet Quotes by Sandy Simpson of the fine online apologetics and discernment ministry Deception in the Church,

http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/...eetquotes.html

critics of online apologetics and discernment ministries really love to just toss out the old ”slander” charge when they disagree with something one of us documents. However, their big problem is that slander has to do with the spoken word; and since I’ve done nothing more than to write my views about Leonard Sweet, the charge pastor Newnham would be
attempting to lay at my feet is one of libel.



However, it is not libel to express one’s opinion, which is all I’ve done; and I’ll also be real interested to see what pastor Newnham is going to say to, and about, the parties who were actually involved in the alleged “disinvitation” of Leonard Sweet. I had zero to do with that. And perhaps pastor Newnham should now repent of his false accusations and judgmentalism:


NEWNHAM: NO CORRECTION WANTED? : Apprising Ministries

[billiefan2000]

False Teachers & Itchy Ears
Uncategorized Add comments May 18 2010.Ҧ

I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom:
preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.

For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,
and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.
As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.”
(2 Timothy 4:1–5 ESV)

Ҧ But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.


And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed.
And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.”
(2 Peter 2:1–3 ESV)

These two verses are the banners that the online discernment ministries fight under.

The question before the house this morning is… who are they really talking about?

I suggest we look at them more closely.

The commonalities between the two passages are:

1. The false teachers mentioned prey on the listeners passions and sensuality.

This is actually the major point as I see it…read the little book of Jude and you’ll see the same pattern.

Peter goes on in the same chapter to condemn those who “indulge in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority.”
(2 Peter 2:10 ESV)

The main characteristic of the false teachers we’re warned about is a sensual, carnal teaching that allows the listener to indulge their passions without conviction.

“They count it pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their deceptions, while they feast with you.
They have eyes full of adultery, insatiable for sin.”
(2 Peter 2:13–14 ESV)

“They said to you, “In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions.””
(Jude 1:18 ESV)

2. They traffic in greed.

“They have hearts trained in greed.”
(2 Peter 2:14 ESV)

Follow the money…

3. They preach doctrines that deny Christ, explicitly or behaviorally.

“Though Christ may be denied in various ways, yet Peter, as I think, refers here to what is expressed by Jude, that is, when the grace of God is turned into lasciviousness; for Christ redeemed us, that he might have a people separated from all the pollutions of the world, and devoted to holiness and innocency. They, then, who throw off the bridle, and give themselves up to all kinds of licentiousness, are not unjustly said to deny Christ by whom they have been redeemed. Hence, that the doctrine of the gospel may remain whole and complete among us, let this be fixed in our minds, that we have been redeemed by Christ, that he may be the Lord of our life and of our death, and that our main object ought to be, to live to him and to die to him.”

John Calvin, Calvin’s Commentaries (Complete) (trans. John King; Accordance electronic ed. Edinburgh: Calvin Translation Society, 1847), n.p.

Obviously, I could write a very long exposition of these passages, but I think our point is clear.

None of these warnings point to people like Rick Warren, Leonard Sweet, Eugene Peterson or any other of the targets of the ODM’s.

Who do you think they are talking about?


False Teachers & Itchy Ears

=================================================

btw:

Michael Newnham calls ODMers False teachers and say Eugene Peterson and Rick warren (see videos below) arent false teachers

Newnham like many emergent and seeker types hate anyone who uses discernment.

this post of Newnham's is evidence of it cause he is mad about people who take 2 Timothy 4 to be literal.

I am so sick of the Perry Noble and Rick Warren and that emergent leader who back in Dec. 2009 who personally attacked me online

among other false teachers who whine about people using discernment and doing research.

according to folks like Newnham, research and finding the truth about something = hate


Newnham and Noble and Warren and Chris Lyons and others who hate sound doctrine and truth= stop whinning and start debating with facts.


and drop the using the pharisee card nonsense. the emergent and seeker-folks cant debate on facts and truth, so they result to name calling.




example of false teachings

[billiefan2000]

related posts on Michael Newnham or make reference to him


Emergent Church Leaders and ODMers aka Online Discernment Ministries


Pastor Michael Newnham upset at those who use Discernment (Steve Camp and Ingrid Schlueter)

Pastor Michael Newnham upset at those who use Discernment (Steve Camp and Ingrid Schlueter)

[GlennO]

I'm interested in this thread, but it seems pretty convoluted, based upon the players who I am familiar with

Skip Hysak has made damaging personal blunders - who hasn't
Michael Newnman (Pheonix Preacher) He has broad-brush issues w/ CC

I had to bring myself up to speed on what ODM is and why I should care
http://apprising.org/beliefs/

Don't know Ken Silva so I searched
Ken Silva Bio

http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/page11.html

Slice of Laodicea
The above link to was defective but I did find the word error (of) not (or) works now

I do know this site as a trusted one
From the Lighthouse BlogNew Age Sympathizer Leonard Sweet To Speak at Pastor Skip Heitzig’s Calvary Chapel Church

So far I all I can deduce is Warren Smith must have put Skip in a head-lock to dis-invite Sweet

[billiefan2000]

I'm interested in this thread, but it seems pretty convoluted, based upon the players who I am familiar with

Skip Hysak has made damaging personal blunders - who hasn't
Michael Newnman (Pheonix Preacher) He has broad-brush issues w/ CC

I had to bring myself up to speed on what ODM is and why I should care

Don't know Ken Silva so I searched
Ken Silva Bio

Slice of Laodicea
The above link to was defective but I did find the word error (of) not (or) works now

I do know this site as a trusted one
From the Lighthouse BlogNew Age Sympathizer Leonard Sweet To Speak at Pastor Skip Heitzig’s Calvary Chapel Church

So far I all I can deduce is Warren Smith must have put Skip in a head-lock to dis-invite Sweet

slice of laodicea is now crosstalkblog.org

[GlennO]

I may have to adjust my plans.....

Calvary Celebration

Glenn

[GlennO]

National Worship Leader Conference
When: Starts Tuesday 6/15/2010 9:00:00 AM - Ends Thursday 6/17/2010 5:00:00 PM
Where: Calvary Campus
The National Worship Leaders Conference is coming to Calvary of Albuquerque, June 15-17. Join with others like you, learn from the experience of influential worship leaders and thinkers, and challenge one another to delve deeper into the art of leading worship. In the process, we will discover a new energy and passion for the ministry of leading the musical prayers of our communities.

Guest speakers include Skip Heitzig, Buddy Owens, and Scotty Smith. Worship leaders include Anthony Evans, Matt Maher, Tommy Walker and Israel Houghton.

http://www.calvaryabq.org/images/eve...conference.jpg

It appears Mr Sweet is not on the billing, with enough time to allow all to cover their tracks...

[billiefan2000]

Phoenix Preacher and How We Treat Bullies | Vibist.com


Phoenix Preacher and How We Treat Bullies
There’s been a “back and forth” on the blogosphere with Ken Silva and Michael Newnham (AKA “Phoenix Preacher”) concerning Leonard Sweet being uninvited from a Calvary Chapel conference due to Ken and others pointing out problems with Leonard’s theology.

I am really amazed at the comment that Michael (AKA “Phoenix Preacher”) posted in his comments section of his blog. He says:

Michael says:
May 10, 2010 at 9:33 am
What Heitzig doesn’t realize is that these people are cowards…they hide behind their blogs and their rhetoric because they don’t have the theological or intellectual capacity to defend their thinking.

There’s only one way to handle a bully…hit them square in the mouth

This comment can be found here. It’s the 12th comment.

Tell me anywhere in Scripture where we are told that “the only way to handle a bully” is to “hit them square in the mouth”. Doesn’t it seem ironic that in a post on his blog called “Selling Hate” that Phoenix Preacher is recommending violence against Ken Silva of apprising.org? Michael accuses Ken Silva and LTR of selling hate, and he’s the one recommending a beating. Uhm, how is that in any way biblical?

Ken has covered this topic in a post entitled: “EMERGENT CHURCH LEADERS AND ODMS—ONLINE DISCERNMENT MINISTRIES“.

Ken’s ministry at Apprising.org is a direct outreach of his local church. They support him and pray for him to be a Godly man and stand in the gap on the Internet. I read Ken’s article, and I certainly didn’t see any libel. I simply saw Ken stating an opinion about how Leonard Sweet’s theology doesn’t line up biblically. Ken stated:

“Despite those of us in this field of ministry being branded with the derogatory slur “ODMs,” which essentially makes us the new lepers, LTR is absolutely correct. And this is becoming a good example of the very real reason Jesus has sent forth online apologetics and discernment ministries.”
Michael (AKA Phoenix Preacher) apparently disagrees, when he states:

“Jesus didn’t send out these ministries. It’s past time to call these what they are… parachurch entities based on selling hate and fear.”
Here are some questions directly to Michael: How do you KNOW that these ministries (Lighthouse Trails and Apprising.org) are not called to do what they do? Did God reveal that to you? Michael, your statement is an absolute. You are stating that Jesus DIDN’T do something. How do you know that? Is Ken wrong? Is his local church wrong? Is Lighthouse Trails wrong? Can you prove any of this? You state that it’s all about the money, and that it’s about selling hate and fear. How do you know that? And finally, even if you dislike Ken Silva this much, what did Jesus tell you to do to enemies?

Jesus says:

Matthew 5:43-48 “You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.’ (44) “But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, (45) so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. (46) “For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? (47) “If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? (48) “Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
So, isn’t it loving to pray for those who are your enemies? Isn’t that what Ken is doing in this post where he asks his readers to pray for Samir Selmanovic? Or when he asks his readers to pray for Marcus Borg?

Instead, Michael thinks that hitting someone square in the mouth is the best action. Care to back that up with Scripture?

[billiefan2000]

related:

HAS LEONARD SWEET REPENTED? : Apprising Ministries





HAS LEONARD SWEET REPENTED? : Apprising Ministries

[GlennO]

billiefan2000 -

Two questions.

Have the adjectives - missional, relational, and incarnational ...become so tainted by the Emergent/ Seeker-Friendly Movement, that their use is relegated to an epithet and defacto code-words for heretical?

Can a fundamental church adhering to a conservative/traditional statement of beliefs (e.g. repentance sanctification, atonement, love, consequences) use the adjectives in question #1 communicate essential principles of the Church (BOC)?

YBIC
Glenn

[billiefan2000]

billiefan2000 -

Two questions.

Have the adjectives - missional, relational, and incarnational ...become so tainted by the Emergent/ Seeker-Friendly Movement, that their use is relegated to an epithet and defacto code-words for heretical?

Can a fundamental church adhering to a conservative/traditional statement of beliefs (e.g. repentance sanctification, atonement, love, consequences) use the adjectives in question #1 communicate essential principles of the Church (BOC)?

YBIC
Glenn

yes for sure on question 1. the word missional used to mean missionary work. now it is a word used to be anti-missionary and be like the world.

[GlennO]

Question #2....?

[GlennO]

Billie -

Reading through Sweet's site I find he is a prolific author. He may have changed...but his legacy brings to mind Professor Antony Flew the atheist.

REHABILITATING A NEGATIVE ATHEIST - Time ran out

Flew went on to make a video of his conversion entitled Has Science Discovered God? and seemed to want to atone for past errors: "As people have certainly been influenced by me, I want to try and correct the enormous damage I may have done," he said.

A touch of irony that Flew was convinced by DNA and Sweet has a book by that title (DNA)

Glenn

[billiefan2000]

Question #2....?

it is possible

[GlennO]

This thread was useful

After too much time drilling the net I have discovered a new trusted resource in Ken Silva. His speech practices this scripture:

Col 4:6
(6) Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

Eph 6:17(b)
He also skillfully wields the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God

Phoenix Preacher on the other hand is skillful in the art of smash-mouth. I have dropped in at the site over the last three years or so. IMO it is an erratic ministry. I prefer eating fruit without so many seeds to spit out.

If you feel differently, please toss me some better coordinates to navigate away from the rock of shipwreck.

Glenn