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Thread: anti-discernment author Bill Slabaugh calls discernment ministries - "spiritual bullies" -

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    Default anti-discernment author Bill Slabaugh calls discernment ministries - "spiritual bullies" -

    In a new ebook, subtitled How Spiritual Bullies Attack The Church, Bill Slabaugh opines how apparently the church now faces “a new level of intensity when it comes to spiritual abuse and bullying.” Well, it seems Apprising Ministries is among “several national organizations, websites, newsletters, and radio broadcasts” who “have turned their sights on the church and have attacked Christian leaders and other faithful believers.”

    So Slabaugh, with his “over twenty-five years of pastoral experience, is set to ride to the rescue—for $12.95 a pop—informing us:

    This New Pharisaism falsely claims that New Age, Eastern mystical, and occultic practices are being introduced into most churches in America as part of the apostasy of the last days. This inflammatory and divisive material has made its way into local churches through individuals and small groups of bullies who have used it for their own selfish gain and self-promoting agenda.

    The weapons of their warfare consist of destructive written material and radio broadcasts which have no true scriptural basis. They are self-appointed Pharisees who refer to themselves as: “watchmen,” “apprising ministries,” and “discerning ministries.”

    These Pharisaical organizations and individuals include Ray Yungen, Dave Hunt and The Berean Call, Crosstalk America, Lighthouse Trails Research Project, Media
    Spotlight, Southwest Radio Church, Apprising Ministries, and Understanding the Times. (Online source)

    As we investigate this matter, and Slabaugh himself, further it would seem to be a good time for all of us to revisit the article Playing the Pharisee Card by Todd Wilken, host of the radio program Issues, Etc. Wilken begins:

    I have been called a Pharisee more times than I can remember. It goes with the territory. I host a conservative Christian radio talk show. I publicly defend the teachings and practices of the historic Church. I also publicly point out false teaching and practices in the Church today. For these reasons alone, some believe that I deserve to be called a Pharisee.

    But I’m not alone. Today, the label “Pharisee” is applied to many Christians just like me—perhaps you’re one of them. We are Christians who cherish God’s Word, the Church’s historic Creeds, confessions and practices. When we see the Church abandoning these things to follow the latest fads and entertainments, we lament. When we see the Gospel itself being left behind in the Church’s rush to mimic popular culture, we are grieved. And when we question the Church’s infatuation with the spirit of the age, we are labeled Pharisees. (Online source)

    You can read this article by Todd Wilken in its entirety right here.

    APPRISING MINISTRIES AND THE SUPPOSED NEW PHARISAISM : Apprising Ministries
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    Default Re: anti-dsicernment author Bill Slabaugh calls discernment ministries - "spiritual bullies" -

    article should say



    apostates and those who dont like using discernment calls discernment ministries - "spiritual bullies"


    to: Bill Slabaugh and others like him


    if Ray Yungen, Dave Hunt and The Berean Call, Crosstalk America, Lighthouse Trails Research Project, Media
    Spotlight, Southwest Radio Church, Apprising Ministries, and Understanding the Times.

    and this site were spreading lies, why not show evidence of slander.



    apostates dont like it when they are exposed for false teaching and that is what Bill Slabaugh and others like him are really complaining about.


    btw, one other thing:


    I thought we werent supposed to name names Bill Slabaugh.

    isnt that the lie that some tell discernment ministries who expose false teachers to do: not name names.
    http://www.messianicrx.net
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    For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also (Matthew 6:21)

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    billiefan2000 is offline Citizen
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    Default Re: anti-dsicernment author Bill Slabaugh calls discernment ministries - "spiritual bullies" -

    btw:

    anti-discernment zealot and pro-Rob Bell and pro- Rick Warren and pro- Greg Boyd supporter

    Chris Lyons of the crn.info website endorses Bill Slabaugh 's book/comments



    quote from Lyons site on this:


    I (Chris Lyons) believe that 99% of ODM’s fit the underlying comparison to historical view of Pharisees –

    devout, pious fearers of God who have stumbled into areas in which they hold others to a standard that is their own, which has elevated individual convictions to the level of cross-cultural absolutes, and delight in exposing others’ deficiencies (and thus their own righteousness) – real or imagined. (Think Lighthouse Trails, TeamPyro, etc.)

    As for the common definition of “pharisee”, I believe that a smaller subset of ODM’s (the Silvas and Schlueters of the blogosphere) fits within this definition in addition to the more historical definition.




    (i.e. Chris Lyons believes anyone who speaks out against Rob Bell and Rick Warren and others false teachings are somehow Pharisees



    related stories on Lyons:


    Chris Lyons: We will still defend brothers and sisters in Christ, wronged by the discernmentalists"


    Anti-Discernment Zealot Chris Lyons equates Ingrid of SOL with Osama bin Laden



    http://www.raptureforums.com/forum/a...agogue-sa.html
    http://www.messianicrx.net
    http://www.hollywoodprayernetwork.org
    http://www.classreport.org/


    For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also (Matthew 6:21)

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    Default Re: anti-dsicernment author Bill Slabaugh calls discernment ministries - "spiritual bullies" -

    Playing the Pharisee Card by Todd Wilken, host of the radio program Issues, Etc. Wilken begins:

    I have been called a Pharisee more times than I can remember. It goes with the territory. I host a conservative Christian radio talk show. I publicly defend the teachings and practices of the historic Church. I also publicly point out false teaching and practices in the Church today. For these reasons alone, some believe that I deserve to be called a Pharisee.

    But I’m not alone. Today, the label “Pharisee” is applied to many Christians just like me—perhaps you’re one of them. We are Christians who cherish God’s Word, the Church’s historic Creeds, confessions and practices. When we see the Church abandoning these things to follow the latest fads and entertainments, we lament. When we see the Gospel itself being left behind in the Church’s rush to mimic popular culture, we are grieved. And when we question the Church’s infatuation with the spirit of the age, we are labeled Pharisees. (Online source)

    You can read this article by Todd Wilken in its entirety right here.

    APPRISING MINISTRIES AND THE SUPPOSED NEW PHARISAISM : Apprising Ministries[/QUOTE]

    Billiefan,

    I know you and I are in this bunch that gets called Pharisees because we dare to call a spade a spade. Most of my posts on the emergent church or the seeker-sensitive/missional movement on Facebook get ignored. My prayer is that some will take what I post to heart and work to change their church from within if they can.

    Perhaps this should be a separate conversation but it is interesting how the church in the US seems to mirror what is happening in Washington DC. We get labeled as Pharisees and as right-wing loons or nutjobs by the libs out there. I can't stop speaking out and I refuse to stop speaking out whether I'm dealing with weird stuff in church or crazy stuff in politics. What many don't understand is that we are not just 'heresy-hunters'. We get on our knees daily and pray to the Lord for change, we stay in the Word, and we are faithful to our church and the body of believers at home and online. We enjoy reading Def-Con, Team Pyro, Johnny Mac, Al Mohler, Kevin DeYoung, Tim Challies and the list goes on and on.. We read a lot from Ken and Chris and Ingrid but our focus is Christ crucified and our mandate is to share Him everywhere we go, with everyone we meet, all the time.

    Ok, rant over.. sorry...
    Mike

    We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. 2 Cor 5:20 NIV

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    Default Re: anti-dsicernment author Bill Slabaugh calls discernment ministries - "spiritual bullies" -

    Playing the Pharisee Card
    Posted by Ingrid Schlueter in Featured Articles, Helpful Articles, Religion on February 24th, 2010 | Comments

    Rev. Todd Wilken of Issues, Etc. has an excellent article regarding those who play the Pharisee Card to attack those who warn of false teachings. As Wilken points out, this card is used much as the race card or gender card is used to shut down those who have unpopular messages.


    I have been called a Pharisee more times than I can remember. It goes with the territory. I host a conservative Christian radio talk show. I publicly defend the teachings and practices of the historic Church. I also publicly point out false teaching and practices in the Church today. For these reasons alone, some believe that I deserve to be called a Pharisee.

    But I’m not alone. Today, the label “Pharisee” is applied to many Christians just like me—perhaps you’re one of them.

    We are Christians who cherish God’s Word, the Church’s historic Creeds, confessions and practices. When we see the Church abandoning these things to follow the latest fads and entertainments, we lament. When we see the Gospel itself being left behind in the Church’s rush to mimic popular culture, we are grieved. And when we question the Church’s infatuation with the spirit of the age, we are labeled Pharisees…


    Read entire article.


    Playing the Pharisee Card- The Crosstalk Blog
    http://www.messianicrx.net
    http://www.hollywoodprayernetwork.org
    http://www.classreport.org/


    For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also (Matthew 6:21)

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    Default Re: anti-dsicernment author Bill Slabaugh calls discernment ministries - "spiritual bullies" -

    Quote of the Day
    Posted by Ingrid Schlueter in Religion on February 24th, 2010 | Comments


    “Those who play the Pharisee Card hope to dismiss Christians like you and me as ultra-conservative doctrinal purists with no love for the lost.

    But like a fifth Ace up the sleeve, the Pharisee Card is a cheat.

    Those who play it ignore the real errors of the real Pharisees.

    They wrongly apply the name to those who stand in the way of false teaching, compromising change and a watered-down Gospel. In the end, the Pharisee Card amounts to nothing more than name-calling.

    And, like the Race or Gender Cards are in politics, in the Church, the Pharisee Card is always the sign of a losing hand.” ~

    Rev. Todd Wilken, host of Issues, Etc.


    http://www.crosstalkblog.com/2010/02...-of-the-day-8/
    http://www.messianicrx.net
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    For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also (Matthew 6:21)

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    Default Re: anti-dsicernment author Bill Slabaugh calls discernment ministries - "spiritual bullies" -

    btw, I will explain why Bill Slabaugh is mad at 3 radio hosts that were listed

    Jan Markell of Understanding the Times Olive Tree Ministries with Jan Markell


    and the guys at SWRC aka of Southwest Radio Church Southwest Radio Ministries, Ministering the Prophetic Word Since 1933

    and Ingrid of http://www.crosstalkblog.org and Crosstalk America

    because they and some of their guests have been tryting to warn people about the apostasy epidemic that is in many churches.



    I applaud Noah Hutchings and Larry Spargimino (sp?) and Jan Markell and the folks at Crosstalk America



    I wish more christian radio hosts were like them and less of the September Turner and Sid Roth types we have on so-called christian radio

    who either enable false teachings and or promote false teachers
    http://www.messianicrx.net
    http://www.hollywoodprayernetwork.org
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    For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also (Matthew 6:21)

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    Default Re: anti-dsicernment author Bill Slabaugh calls discernment ministries - "spiritual bullies" -

    I find it interesting that someone would explain why I am "mad" when I am not angry at all. Or that someone would refer to me as an apostate when they do not know me or have read very much of what I have written.

    I do hope that we can have constructive dialogue that edifies the Body of Christ.

    Bill Slabaugh

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    Default Re: anti-dsicernment author Bill Slabaugh calls discernment ministries - "spiritual bullies" -

    This article from a secular newspaper says it all they understand that centering prayer, breath prayer and the rest of this garbage is transcendental mediation why doesn’t the emergent church get it? They do get it! They are recommending new age authors for reading and the new age authors are recommending them.

    They have the same goal, pantheism and universalism


    Meditation goes mainstream | www.tennessean.com | The Tennessean


    Meditation goes mainstream
    As many mainstream Christians discover practice, others say it takes focus off God
    By BONNA JOHNSON • Staff Writer • September 14, 2008

    Like many churchgoers in the Bible Belt, Kristy Robinson teaches Sunday school with her husband and helps prepare communion at their Episcopal church in Franklin. Her daughter sings in the choir.

    She rounds out her church- and prayer-filled life with another spiritual practice that's not quite as familiar: meditation.

    "I'll see a difference in my day if I don't," says Robinson, who opens each day with 20 minutes of absolute silence. "It just feels more chaotic. Little things bother me more. I have lower coping ability."

    All the chanting and incense and — yikes — even meditation altars may seem too New Age and mystical for some, but meditation has gone mainstream and been embraced by suburban moms and all types of busy people.

    "I've seen a changing perception. In the past it's been viewed as a yogi sitting on a mountaintop," says Tammy Roth, a licensed therapist in Nashville who leads meditation retreats. "But people are now realizing there are all kinds of different forms of meditation and are finding different ways to slow the mind down and feel calmer."

    Younger generations get an introduction in yoga classes, careerists escape on meditation retreats and boomers seek tranquility in meditation gardens. Meditation, it seems, is no longer associated as a counterculture activity made hip by The Beatles and favored by flower children.

    Some approach meditation through Buddhism or other Eastern religions; more and more Christians meditate through the ancient ritual of centering prayer; while others develop their own style, whether it's patterned after the breathing techniques of popular guru Deepak Chopra or not.

    Most sit on the floor or in a chair in their quest for inner stillness, usually focusing on a mantra or on their breathing, but you can even clear your mind while walking around, tending a garden or through movement-based activities, such as tai chi, quigong or walking a labyrinth.

    Protestants take part
    A report released this year showed an astonishingly high number of Protestants — nearly half — say they meditate at least once a week. Among the public, 39 percent meditate at least weekly, according to a report by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life.

    It's no surprise that people are seeking paths to peace and serenity in our high-octane, 24-hour world.

    "We're a mentally focused, hard-core, achievement-oriented society," says Dr. J. David Forbes, a medical doctor and meditation teacher in Berry Hill. "People are finding it hard to quiet the brain down."

    Once they do, he says, meditation may lead not only to new insights but also to a healthier, happier life, he says. Studies show daily practice can reduce stress and anxiety, lower blood pressure and even increase life expectancy in the elderly, he says.

    "It makes me a more patient mother," says Robinson, 41, who has been meditating on and off since her college days 20 years ago. "I feel like I'm more connected to nature and my children and people in general."

    Sitting cross-legged on a round, black cushion in her family room, before her twin 8-year-olds and 12-year-old are out of bed, she concentrates on her breath as she tries to suspend the stream of thoughts that nor mally occupies her mind.

    This mind-clearing ritual helps her figure out her beliefs and hopes, her doubts and wishes.

    Even more, those quiet moments in the early dawn are a time to process the sorrow she encounters as a gerontologist working with elderly people in nursing homes and in their houses, sometimes watching them die.

    "I have to have some sort of outlet to deal with that or it would bury me," she says.

    Robinson loves the way prayer gives her a chance to talk with God.

    "With meditation," she says, "It's me listening for God's response."

    She says her Christian faith deepened through meditation and she sometimes attends meditation retreats atop the hills in Sewanee, Tenn.. And she is taking a class on Buddhism, whose followers are among the world's best at clearing their minds.

    "I enjoy being around different people studying different faiths," Robinson says.

    Approaches vary
    Various paths lead practitioners to their own style of meditation.

    Chirping birds, a slate path and a rock garden puts Cheryl Tittsworth into just the right state to seek self-knowledge and connection.

    In her backyard meditation garden, the 58-year-old accountant and grandmother meditates as she tends to her plants and walks around her sanctuary.

    "I'm always sweeping and trimming and watering and raking," says Tittsworth, who lives in Nashville's Burton Hills development. "Part of Zen is in finding meaning for everything you do in life and doing it well."

    She often stops to sit to do her breathing exercises, repeating her mantra and quieting her racing mind. "I lose the world for a while and immerse myself in my own meditative environment," she says.

    Joe Scott, 61, got hooked on meditation in yoga classes about 16 years ago. At the time, he was an opinionated workaholic who had a need to always be right.

    "I used to be a very angry, intense person," says Scott, who works in the quality assurance department at HCA.

    Thirty minutes of meditation first thing in the morning completely changed his life, says Scott, who also meditates with members of Self Realization Fellowship in Berry Hill, which incorporates readings from the Bible and the Hindu holy book in their Sunday services.

    For Carolyn Goddard of Nashville, she was drawn to centering prayer, a form of contemplative prayer, to deepen her connection with God. A Colorado monk revived this ancient ritual of "resting in God" in the 1970s as an alternative for Christians lured to transcendental meditation.

    Today, there are about 25 centering prayer groups that meet throughout Tennessee with 13 in the Nashville area. Participants choose a sacred word to help them clear their mind of other thoughts.

    "You don't have to go outside the Christian tradition to find methods of meditation. It's part of our heritage, as well," says Goddard, who attends Christ the King Catholic Church and is an instructor with Contemplative Outreach of Middle Tennessee.

    Dangers cited
    Meditation has been, at times, eyed with suspicion. The Vatican in 1989 went so far as to say that methods such as Zen, yoga and transcendental meditation, can "degenerate into a cult of the body" and be dangerous. Euphoric states, the Vatican warned, should not be confused with prayer.

    And the notion that meditation is too way out there for Christians, if not rooted in the Bible, still exists today.

    "The idea of emptying the mind is not biblically based," says Don Whitney, professor of biblical spirituality at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky. "There can be a danger."

    Referring to meditation's long association with Hinduism, Buddhism and other Eastern religions, Whitney says, "Some of the yoga stuff, where you're given a mantra, that is rooted in false religions." He sees no problem with stretching, but once you start chanting, you're treading on treacherous ground, he says.

    His beef is that some people are seeking tools to help them live and de-stress. "That's very selfish," he says. "Our lives should be lived to the glory of God."

    The Bible teaches to meditate only on the word of God, as well as God's creation, the works of God and the character of God, Whitney says. He even has a problem with centering prayer if it is self-focused rather than God-focused.

    Quiet revives the mind
    But for many Christians, meditation fits quite nicely into their religious life. They're drawn to biblical Scriptures, like in Luke, when Jesus says, "The kingdom of heaven is within you," or, in the Psalms, which says, "Be still, and know that I am God."

    For them, meditation has brought deeper meaning to their lives.

    "I was constantly driven and racing against deadlines," says Cassandra Finch of her former life as a Nashville television news reporter. "I didn't have time to chew my food or breathe deeply. I kept it up for a while, but it was taking a toll on my body."

    She quit her job and cared full time for her father, who was dying from Parkinson's disease. After his death, she threw herself into meditation.

    "I discovered my true self through meditation," the 42-year-old says. "Often because we are so busy, we don't make time for self-discovery."

    A Christian who attends an interdenominational church and considers herself nondenominational, Finch has also been attending a Buddhist center to meditate.

    "Going to church is where I'm being talked to. There is not a lot of silent time," Finch says. "I feel the power and presence of God through my meditation."

    Now a media consultant, Finch's 20-minute ritual of meditation each morning, repeating her mantra, "Think and let go," releases a level of creativity previously untapped, she says.

    "Once I sit at my computer for work, my thinking is clearer and my writing is so much better," she says."

    Using a mantra is a common way to train the mind in meditation.

    Mary Glesige, 58, of Joelton, a yoga, massage and meditation instructor, practices primordial sound meditation. Your mantra — your sacred sound — is determined by the date of your birth, the place of your birth and relationship to the moon at the time and place of your birth, she says.

    Her goals for meditation range from seeking stillness to lowering her blood pressure.

    "We have wonderful technology these days, but it creates stress in life and also breeds impatience," she says. "We want our bodies to react like computers. Meditation teaches patience."

    Curtis Simpson, a meditation instructor in Brentwood, practices Heart Rhythm Meditation, where focusing on his breathing — not a mantra — helps him clear his mind.

    The former high school teacher has been in the middle of a job search.

    "I breathe that question — 'How can I find work that is satisfying?' — out into the universe," he says. "Then I inhale back in. At some point, during meditation or sometime later, I might get a flash of insight."

    Contact Bonna Johnson at 615-726-5990 or bjohnson@tennessean.com.
    "It is therefore a profound truth that Socialism is the natural enemy of religion. A Christian Socialist is in fact an anti-Socialist. Christianity is the antithesis of Socialism" - Socialism and Religion, Socialist party of Great Britain, 1911.

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    billiefan2000 is offline Citizen
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    Default Re: anti-dsicernment author Bill Slabaugh calls discernment ministries - "spiritual bullies" -

    Bill S:

    I have a question:

    you are saying with your book anyone who speaks out against the

    seeker driven church movement

    and word of faith aka greed gospel

    and the missional and emergent church movements

    somehow are "pharisees"



    Bill:

    I am curious, would these guys count as "pharisees" also

    l







    and lets not forget Preterist radio show Hank Hannegraff (a friend of Rick Warren 's btw)

    who is very vocal on how deceptive the word of faith cult movement that is in some churches


    would they be pharisees too for using discernment?

    I mean, if youre going to call me and Jan Markell and Eric Barger and Ingrid and other christians who have read 1 John 4:1

    pharisees for using discernment and speaking out against false teachers,

    than Piper and Hannegraff and Driscoll should be called for using discernment also and speaking out against false teachers.




    I may disagree with Driscoll and Piper and Hannegraff on a few or a number of things, but I give the credit for being watchman of sorts and speaking out against false teachers like Joel Osteen and the word of faith grifters
    Last edited by billiefan2000; February-27th-2010 at 04:44 PM.
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    Default Re: anti-dsicernment author Bill Slabaugh calls discernment ministries - "spiritual bullies" -

    Biliefan2000,

    Your question in post #10 is based on a false premise related to what you presume that I am saying. You should be careful about saying what others are saying when you have not read the material. In the preface to your question you list several movements which I have not mentioned in my book. The issue has little to do with speaking out against certain movements. It has everything to do with the characteristics of Pharisaism in the New Testament and how these same characteristics are evident today.

    • The Pharisees were caught up in the error of textualism. Jesus chided the Pharisees, “You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me” (John 5:39). The Pharisees mistakenly believed that if they got their doctrine just right, they were in right relationship with God.

    • The Pharisees maintained a sense of self-importance and superiority. As a result, they viewed others with contempt (see Luke 18:9). The Pharisees relished in their own goodness while they cast aspersions on others who passed by.

    • The Pharisees evaluated others by a self-styled judgmental standard. Jesus said, “Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you” (Matthew 7:1-2). They set up a standard they could not even obtain, and then criticized others based their self-styled standard.

    • The Pharisees’ self-trust and pride blinded them from the wonders of Jesus. After Jesus healed the blind man, they asked Jesus, “We are not blind too, are we?” (John 9:40). In response, Jesus pointed out their spiritual blindness (John 9:41).

    • The Pharisees attributed the work of God to Satan. After Jesus healed the mute man and cast out a demon, the Pharisees were saying, “He casts out the demons by the ruler of the demons” (Matthew 9:34). The Pharisees were fearful of works of God and demonized the work of the Spirit of God.

    • The Pharisees were active in proselytizing. Jesus said to them, “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves” (Matthew 23:15). The Pharisees were zealous to get others to subscribe to their doctrinal convictions and interpretation of Scripture. In proselytizing, their chief offense was bringing others under their corrupt theology and religious system.

    • The Pharisees were cruel in persecuting (see Acts 26:10-11). The Pharisees resisted the things of the Spirit of God with all their self-righteous might. They were not close to God and didn’t want anyone else to be close to God.

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    Default Re: anti-dsicernment author Bill Slabaugh calls discernment ministries - "spiritual bullies" -

    Who do you think are the Pharisees today?

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    Default Re: anti-dsicernment author Bill Slabaugh calls discernment ministries - "spiritual bullies" -

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Who do you think are the Pharisees today?
    that's what I'm wondering

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    Default Re: anti-dsicernment author Bill Slabaugh calls discernment ministries - "spiritual bullies" -

    *admin edit* Questionable book promotions.

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    Default Re: anti-dsicernment author Bill Slabaugh calls discernment ministries - "spiritual bullies" -

    We're not going to use this forum to promote your book Bill. Please don't be cryptic. How about just answering the question?

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    Default Re: anti-discernment author Bill Slabaugh calls discernment ministries - "spiritual bullies" -

    These Pharisaical organizations and individuals include Ray Yungen, Dave Hunt and The Berean Call, Crosstalk America, Lighthouse Trails Research Project, Media Spotlight, Southwest Radio Church, Apprising Ministries, and Understanding the Times.
    Did you label these people pharisees?

  17. #17
    micah719 is offline an adopted son of The Most High God John 6:37-40
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    Default Re: anti-dsicernment author Bill Slabaugh calls discernment ministries - "spiritual bullies" -

    Mr Bill S

    The issue has little to do with speaking out against certain movements
    No, the issue is:

    "This New Pharisaism falsely claims that New Age, Eastern
    mystical, and occultic practices are being introduced into
    most churches in America as part of the apostasy of the last
    days."
    You oppose certain discernment ministries and disagree with their position, so please refute their claims by showing us that there are no New Age, Eastern mystical and occult practices being introduced into most churches in America (and by extension the world, seeing as how the US was the last bastion and is most heavily attacked....excuse me, infiltrated...ahem, subverted....oops, corrupted....dear me, consensus oriented). You have taken that side, and that is the centre of this "issue".

    The freely available portion of your e-book gives the impression that the folks being discerned as introducing the above heretical practices are a maligned minority under attack by superior numbers, whereas in reality the voices crying wolf are few and far between. Please don't confuse those who are exercising discernment and actively pointing out errors or at least avoiding them, with those who are running from the Gospel or have been deluded into thinking they have obeyed it, and those who are spreading (or defending) lies.

    The tactics you describe are certainly vile and potentially present in every human interaction anywhere. Even amongst true born again Christians, God's children, saved for all eternity from hell, crucified and risen with Jesus Christ of Nazareth. It's that yucky fallen nature of ours, with a little prompting from the evil one and the world he rules temporarily. However, your own tactics smell distinctly Marxist in that you use generalisation, categorisation, ridicule, hyperbole, emotionalisation, exaggeration, obfuscation, evasion, and outright lies. This is my impression from the blurb for your e-book, the introduction to your e-book, and posts in this thread. Depending on where this thread goes, I may spend the time to dissect the material available and show how I get this impression.

    One point already in favour of the people you attack is that they post their reasoning to be freely accessible, therefore freely refutable. This costs them money. Your $12.95 argument looks well researched and presented, but you won't see any of my money. If you truly do serve the Lord and His church you profess to love, you can forgo the revenue because He will look after your needs as well as the church's, and even us poor folks will benefit from your warnings. You do know how the Lord hates hierarchy in the church? Also, what He said concerning those who cause His children to stumble?

    Please, consider what it cost Him, and what is of eternal value in this dispute.

  18. #18
    OnceWasLost's Avatar
    OnceWasLost is offline Moderator
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    Default Re: anti-discernment author Bill Slabaugh calls discernment ministries - "spiritual bullies" -

    Oddly, and as with most who protest the loudest about discernment ministers, the main point is obscured in all the protesting. Simple question that needs to be asked is this, are our doctrinal concerns Scripturally valid? The idea of calling out false teachers is nothing unprecedented, for goodness sake, Paul spent his ministry correcting false doctrine and calling those people by name. Ironically he needed to be saved from his Pharisaical roots to see clearly enough to call out the error.

    There is a never ending stream of people who want to pile on the bandwagon of people wanting us all to get along, and in doing so they would have us leave bad doctrine to go on unchallenged. Wow, who to believe...... those who think we are bullies or Paul???

    17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. 18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.
    Wow, Paul, how unloving and Pharisaical, you sound like a fire breathing ODM. Or, maybe, just maybe, he is expecting we like he are to sound the alarm that wolves are all around and a brave few need to warn God's people of the devil at the door.

    I choose Paul and am honored to stand with those being attacked for being Watchmen.

  19. #19
    myinnuendo999 is offline Citizen
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    Default Re: anti-discernment author Bill Slabaugh calls discernment ministries - "spiritual bullies" -

    quote" • The Pharisees were caught up in the error of textualism. Jesus chided the Pharisees, “You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me” (John 5:39). The Pharisees mistakenly believed that if they got their doctrine just right, they were in right relationship with God."

    when I read John 5:39 in "context" This passage has nothing to do with Jesus rebuking them for textualism.

    what happened to the context?

    why did you leave out the end of verse 39? ,,, "you refuse to come to ME to be saved". Jesus was rebuking them because they were trying to save themselves and refused to come the very One Scriptures testifies about. This verse has nothing to do with Jesus rebuking them for the error of textualism. It has to do with them refusing to come to Jesus to be saved..


    2 Cor. 4:2 ,," we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God.

  20. #20
    billiefan2000 is offline Citizen
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    Default Re: anti-discernment author Bill Slabaugh calls discernment ministries - "spiritual bullies" -

    JAMES SUNDQUIST RESPONDS TO NEW PHARISAISM AND BILL SLABAUGH


    JAMES SUNDQUIST RESPONDS TO NEW PHARISAISM AND BILL SLABAUGH : Apprising Ministries
    http://www.messianicrx.net
    http://www.hollywoodprayernetwork.org
    http://www.classreport.org/


    For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also (Matthew 6:21)

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