Doug Pagitt compares discernment to "fight language" ?

[billiefan2000]

Twitter / Doug Pagitt: Chris Rosebrough defending ...

Chris Rosebrough Fighting for the Faith defending "fight language" in faith on Doug Pagitt Radio in Twin Cities on AM950 and online

about 2 hours ago from TweetDeck

Twitter / Doug Pagitt: Chris Rosebrough defending ...



while I appreciate Chris R taking on a emergent church leader like Pagitt on his turf


I think Pagitt and other emergents and also others like them

who are anti-discernment should stop with their trashing of Christians who use Discernment


if the emergents and seeker driven folks arent pushing false teachings and leading people astray:

why are the so afraid of christians who use Discernment?




1 John 4:1

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

[billiefan2000]

Doug later said this on his website

DougPagitt.com Blog Archive Fear – A Powerful Thing


I had a conversation with Chris Rosebrough of Fighting For The Faith Fighting for the Faith and Pirate Christian Radio about his take on why people from his network and stream of faith are so willing to speak about me and others the way they do. I wanted to reflect on it a bit more here.




(I sent this post to Chris and got his “sign-off on it” in an effort to “talk-with” and not “talk-about” people and to be sure I did not mischaracterize him .)



Here is a selection of things said about me just from the last week that I asked Chris to help me understand:

Comments From a Youtube video promoting my book:
Hi Doug, “Just curious as to know what it feels like to be apart of the apostate church? Just watched a video of one of your disciples and couldn’t help but notice her comment about how we need to stop focusing on sin which seperates us from God and just focus on our relationship with God. Funny, the word says it is our sin which seperates us from the Lord and until we REPENT for our sins, we cannot have a relationship with God nor can we be apart of the church. Although in your case I guess that means nothing though right? I know this message might seem harsh, critical and unfriendly, but you know, I’ve come to a conclusion, having hunted wolves, that I have no more patience for promoters of heresies in the church which are leading untold many to hell, thinking they are right. But there is hope, I ask that you repent for the false teachings you are supporting and that you seek God for the lies that you have promoted.”

From A Blog post about my book Preaching Reimagined taking to task the reviewer for not being harder on me:
Tim, I am actually shocked to read the positive notes in your review. I know Doug Pagitt, studied his ministry (from afar), and he is no friend to biblical preaching. I’ve read his book(s), and find his views on preaching to be dangerous and a disservice to those who love the Word and the flock of God. (kinda strong? yup).

This from a blog post called The Truth Wars:


In this, we see the thesis for John MacArthur’s The Truth War. Using the New Testament Epistle of Jude as the foundation, he uses Sacred Scripture in contrast to actual quotes from Emergents such as Doug Pagitt and Seeker-Sensitive advocates such as Rick Warren, to cement home to the believer why the Church is so apostate in our time. The missing part is submission to God’s Truth as The Truth. Hence, we are in the midst of a war.

“Hunting wolves”, ”surprised to see positive notes”, “we are in the midst of a war”.

I wanted Chris to help me and my listeners to understand why people, who I know are followers of Jesus, talk about other professing followers of Jesus in these disparaging ways.

Chris basically said, I am paraphrasing (but Chris did see this and gave his ok on it), “We know there are false teachers and deceivers in the world – Jesus said there would be, the devil tempted Eve, and Paul warns against them – and so when we hear you saying the stuff you say, it is clear that you are in the group we have been looking for and are on the lookout for”. You can hear the interview here – January 17, last half of hour 1, and first 10 minutes of hour 2.

I suggest this view is a distorted version of faith that does not reflect the Biblical story at all, but that argument is part of our ongoing conversation. What I am sure of is that their reactions are driven from fear. I am not sure where the fear come from, but, in my opinion, it causes them to look at people with suspicion and distrust which taints everything. Looking at the world in the terms Chris suggested creates “the good” and “the evil”, and “the good” are always fearful of “the evil”. This kind of fear does strange things to people.




It made me think of this Springsteen Song (as I am prone to do):

I got my finger on the trigger But I don’t know who to trust

When I look into your eyes There’s just devils and dust

We’re a long, long way from home, Bobbie Home’s a long, long way from us

I feel a dirty wind blowing Devils and dust

I got God on my side
 And I’m just trying to survive

What if what you do to survive
 Kills the things you love

Fear’s a powerful thing, baby, 
It can turn your heart black you can trust

It’ll take your God filled soul
 And fill it with devils and dust

This song, according to Springsteen, is about a guy at a guard post in Iraq and sees a car coming at him and needs to decide if it is a danger or not. He has his finger on the trigger and doesn’t know who to trust. Does he shoot and kill an innocent, or trust the wrong person and die himself? Fear causes you to see in others “devils and dust”. And, this fear produces in you “devils and dust”.

I think there is much fear going on in the lives of these critics. I believe they see themselves in this life and death situation and they will be held accountable -they are “the guards at the gate”.

I wish, for their sake, that this wasn’t so. I am most sad because this kind of fear causes them to work against the very people of God and ultimately to trust their judgment over trusting God.

I want to be careful not to misuse Bible passages to simply make my point, but I keep thinking of Jesus being accused of doing what he did by the power of Beelzebub. He clearly wasn’t, he was doing the work of God, but the “religious purists” of his day could only see “devils and dust”. There were only two options and they knew he was not on their “side” so, that leaves no other option of which “side” he is on.




From Matthew 12:
Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see. All the people were astonished and said, “Could this be the Son of David?”But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “It is only by Beelzebub, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons.”



(I am quite sure this post will bring comments suggesting that I have misapplied this passage along with many other “proofs” of my anathema-ness. And I am sure there will be many more verses exchanged in the comments.)

People who heard the radio show interview were offering their condolences to me for being called and “anathema” by Chris (end of the segment in the second hour). I did not feel hurt or insulted, rather I feel pain for him and others that their fear causes them to see the story so wrongly and to see devils and dust in me and others. That they credit the work of the spirit to the “devil” is amongst the most tragic missteps.
The words from 1 John 4 capture my hope and desire in all this:

This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

We love because he first loved us. If we say we love God yet hate a brother or sister, we are liars. For if we do not love a fellow believer, whom we have seen, we cannot love God, whom we have not seen. And he has given us this command: Those who love God must also love one another.

May the love of God remove blinding fear from us all.

DougPagitt.com Blog Archive Fear – A Powerful Thing

==================================================

btw:


even Tony Jones (Pagitt's good friend says Chris R is doing a good thing with his radio show Fighting for the Faith http://www.fightingforthefaith.com





quote:

Twitter / Tony Jones: RT @DougPagittRadio: Chris ...

RT @DougPagittRadio: Chris Rosebrough defending "fight language" in faith on Doug Pagitt Radio. Live //Chris is a fair critic
8:38 AM Jan 17th from TweetDeck


Twitter / Tony Jones: RT @DougPagittRadio: Chris ...



Doug Pagitt has offically lost it when even Tony Jones is defending Chris Rosebrough of Fighting for the Faith

and Chris R has been very critical of the false teachings and agenda that Jones has been peddling

[billiefan2000]

DOUG PAGITT ON CHRIS ROSEBROUGH: FEAR?A POWERFUL THING : Apprising Ministries

DOUG PAGITT ON CHRIS ROSEBROUGH: FEAR—A POWERFUL THING
By Ken Silva pastor-teacher on Jan 19, 2010 in AM Missives, Current Issues, Doug Pagitt, Emergence Christianity, Emergent Church, Features

Apprising Ministries points you to the following yesterday by heretical quasi-universalist pastor Doug Pagitt, a leading voice ‘round the Emerging Church aka Emergent Church, which morphed into Emergence Christianity (EC)—and who were originally propped up and advanced by Leadership Network (LN). The EC, now a cult of a postliberalism firmly within mainstream evangelicalism, was actually a part of LN’s planned take-over of the visible church.

My guess from tracking this sorry story is that LN was taken a bit by surprise with the hard left turn from many EC luminaries in this sinfully ecumenical EC cult like Pagitt and his equally heretical “theologian in residence” Tony Jones—which is a Liberalism 2.0 complete with the virus of corrupt Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism (CSM) ala Living Spiritual Teacher and Quaker mystic Richard Foster along with his spiritual twin Dallas Willard.

Yesterday in his post Fear—A Powerful Thing Pagitt tells us that Sunday:

on my Radio Show I had a conversation with Chris Rosebrough of Fighting For The Faith and Pirate Christian Radio about his take on why people from his network and stream of faith are so willing to speak about me and others the way they do. I wanted to reflect on it a bit more here. (Online source)


Pagitt goes on to explain:

I wanted Chris to help me and my listeners to understand why people, who I know are followers of Jesus, talk about other professing followers of Jesus in these disparaging ways… You can hear the interview here – January 17, last half of hour 1, and first 10 minutes of hour 2. (Online source)

And then, sounding exactly in lock-step with his liberal/progressive counterparts Pagitt pontificates:

I suggest this view is a distorted version of faith that does not reflect the Biblical story at all, but that argument is part of our ongoing conversation. What I am sure of is that their reactions are driven from fear. I am not sure where the fear come from, but, in my opinion, it causes them to look at people with suspicion and distrust which taints everything.

Looking at the world in the terms Chris suggested creates “the good” and “the evil”, and “the good” are always fearful of “the evil”. This kind of fear does strange things to people. (Online source)



Such is the arrogance of men like Pagitt; should someone dare disagree with the Christianity he cobbled together in his basement last night, then of course they must be afraid. The truth is, the only thing I fear in regard to false prophets like Doug Pagitt, would be the eternal destiny of those who keep following these Pied Pipers of Liberalism 2.0 into the Global Family of their reimagined version of liberalism’s original Fatherhood of God and Brotherhood of Man. Sadly, Pagitt et al are actually helping to usher in the One World religion to be ruled by the Antichrist.

By the way, Chris Rosebrough is going to be reviewing the above post and giving a debriefing concerning his appearance of Pagitt’s radio show today on his own Fighting for the Faith program heard weekdays at 6pm EST on Pirate Christian Radio.

See also:

THE EMERGING CHURCH AGENDA AND DOUG PAGITT

DOUG PAGITT AND A “CHRISTIANITY” HE LIKES

DOUG PAGITT AND CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALISM

EMERGING CHURCH PASTOR DOUG PAGITT

DOUG PAGITT AND FRIENDS ATTACKED?

THE NEW CHRISTIANS WITH CHRISTIANITY WORTH BELIEVING—NO SOLA SCRIPTURA: YES, WOMEN PASTORS AND QUEER CHRISTIANS

THROWN UNDER THE EMERGING CHURCH BUS



DOUG PAGITT ON CHRIS ROSEBROUGH: FEAR?A POWERFUL THING : Apprising Ministries

[billiefan2000]

I also want to make a special comment on this:


Pagitt and Noble and others I have noticed are self-destructing.


There maybe hope for the church cause I have noticed apostates like these two have gotten angrier and angrier at christians who use Discernment.



it is only a matter of time before they have a huge meltdown and it is over for them.




I am hoping Christians who supports guys like these 2 may start using Discernment and doing research on who they are following

cause Pagitt and Noble are trying to hide something and I think we all know what it is:

the truth about what they are teaching and peddling

==================================


2 Timothy 4:3-4

For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

[Cherished]

Ugh. More typical smoke and mirrors from Pagitt. He is a fool. I hope his heart warms to the truth before it is too late.

[myinnuendo999]

What are THEY afraid of? That if they get too close to the Real Jesus he will be a massive threat to them? Jesus is the highest standard of holiness and perfection and that is why they must keep Him at a distance. Could it be that people hate the truth because it exposes their lies?

Could it be that Jesus threatens their popularity with people and respect from them? Could it be his mere presence makes them cringe and causes them to recoil from Him-Jesus- if you get too close?

Nothing exposes the counterfeit faster than the genuine. Nothing dispels a lie faster than the truth. What every counterfeit fears is that someone will examine his bogus bill while holding the genuine one next to it. Obviously, that is why they have created categories for Jesus or anything to do with Christianity and hold Him at a distance because HE threatens them with his holiness..

[billiefan2000]

What are THEY afraid of? That if they get too close to the Real Jesus he will be a massive threat to them? Jesus is the highest standard of holiness and perfection and that is why they must keep Him at a distance. Could it be that people hate the truth because it exposes their lies?

Could it be that Jesus threatens their popularity with people and respect from them? Could it be his mere presence makes them cringe and causes them to recoil from Him-Jesus- if you get too close?

Nothing exposes the counterfeit faster than the genuine. Nothing dispels a lie faster than the truth. What every counterfeit fears is that someone will examine his bogus bill while holding the genuine one next to it. Obviously, that is why they have created categories for Jesus or anything to do with Christianity and hold Him at a distance because HE threatens them with his holiness..

you are so right on all counts myinnuendo999


false teachers are scared the truth will show them for what they truly are: false teachers

[billiefan2000]

related:


Doug Pagitt on Doug's radio show responds to those who use discernment on him


Chris Rosebrough of Fighting for the Faith Fighting for the Faith radio show went on Pagitt's show btw.