Phil Johnson and Ken Silva article on Erwin McManus

[billiefan2000]

http://apprising.org/2010/01/14/the-...erwin-mcmanus/



THE CASKET OF ERWIN MCMANUS
By Ken Silva pastor-teacher on Jan 14, 2010 in AM Missives, Current Issues, Erwin McManus, Southern Baptist Convention

Apprising Ministries has pointed out before e.g. in Erwin McManus: Finding God Inside Of Yourself that Southern Baptist “distinguished futurist and cultural architect” Erwin McManus was very close to becoming one of the original youth leaders and youth ministers selected back in 1997 by Doug Pagitt for what would become the Terra Nova Project of Leadership Network (LN).

This is the group from which LN, having carefully surveyed the Gen X market to find out what they wanted to “buy,” would select the best “agents” to sell the product they specifically manufactured for that particular market. So they then created what became the egregiously i.e. sinfully ecumenial Emerging Church aka Emergent Church—which morphed into Emergence Christianity (EC).

Sadly, the EC has now become a full-blown cult of a type of postliberalism—Liberalism 2.0—now firmly within the mainstream of evangelicalism. Which is precisely why in regard to men like McManus I’ve paraphrased an old saying: If it looks Emergent, and it does; if it acts like Emergent, and it does; and if it sounds like Emergent, and it does…then it’s as Emergent as Rob Bell.

Yesterday Phil Johnson wrote a great piece at Pyromaniacs getting to the heart of the matter concerning the product we know as Erwin McManus called Erwin McManus’s Casket. First Johnson reminds us that:

Back in August of ‘08, I wrote a post about the pretentiousness of Christians who try too hard to be artsy and manage to sully both art and the gospel in the process. (In retrospect, the tone of that post might sound a tad too cantankerous, even for me. But I completely stand by the point of it.)

One of the targets of my criticism in that post was Erwin Raphael McManus, self-styled “futurist, author, speaker, activist, filmmaker and innovator who specializes in the field of developing and unleashing personal and organizational creativity, uniqueness, innovation and diversity.” Some say he is a “pastor” (though he seems to eschew that title and most other ecclesiastical terms). He’s the lead speaker at Mosaic, “a Community of faith, love, and hope” in Pasadena.

It’s a Southern Baptist congregation, but you’d be hard-pressed to discover that from the church’s own publicity. I spent many hours a few years ago watching videos and listening to sound files of McManus’s teaching, and I have read two or three of his books, plus practically everything he has posted on line. I have never seen him explain, much less affirm, the gospel. (Online source)

Well, the reason for that is likely it might get in the way of McManus preaching “the Gospel of Erwin.” Johnson, as usual, then hits the nail on the head:

In that 2008 post I said: “Clear gospel truth is almost impossible to find in the material he publishes and posts for public consumption. And in that regard, I don’t see a whole lot of difference between Erwin McManus and Joel Osteen. He’s Osteen with blue jeans and an occasional soul patch rather than a shiny suit and a perpetual grin.” (Online source)

Indeed, in fact, the only real difference between McManus and Joel Osteen would be the particular man-centered market to which they’re aiming to sell themselves er, Jesus. Johnson continues:

McManus’s current project is further removed from the proclamation of the gospel than anything you’ll ever see from Osteen—and that’s saying something. McManus is shilling for an entry in Doritos® “Crash the Superbowl” contest. It’s an utterly tasteless commercial called “Casket.” (Online source)

And with Rick Warren being LN’s propped up Purpose Driven Pope, we’re not surprised at all when Johnson also informs us concerning the video below that:


http://twitter.com/RickWarren/statuses/7487189797

Rick Warren is ecstatic about the prestige and potential $$$ a win would bring McManus. He Tweeted: “My guy Erwin McManus (Mosiac Church) created a Doritos Superbowl Ad! Church could win $! VOTE 4 him!” (Online source)

You can read this insightful article by Phil Johnson in its entirety right here.


Doritos – Casket – (2010) :30 (USA)
Credits:

by Erwin McManus
51 years old, pastor
Whittier, CA
Budget: $3,000 (Online source)

See also:

PYROMANIACS: STREAM OF CONSCIOUSNESS AND ERWIN MCMANUS

ERWIN MCMANUS’S FALSE TEACHINGS – PART 2: “YOU HAVE INCREDIBLE POTENTIAL”

ERWIN MCMANUS’ MISUSES AND DISTORTIONS OF SCRIPTURE

ERWIN MCMANUS AND HIS NEO-ORTHODOX VIEW OF THE BIBLE ACTUALLY AGREES WITH THAT OF LIBERAL LIAR JOHN SHELBY SPONG

EMERGENT CHURCH: A DISEASED TREE

MAN-CENTERED GOSPEL VS. GOD-CENTERED GOSPEL

TODAY’S FALSE GOSPEL…READ IT AND WEEP…



http://apprising.org/2010/01/14/the-...erwin-mcmanus/

[billiefan2000]

this is btw the ad that

Erwin McManus is doing

that Rick Warren is endorsing.



Doritos - Casket - (2010) :30 (USA) | Adland



to Mr. McManus and Mr. Warren and other like minded "pastors" like them:


why should I care about your commercial.





I love doritos but I as a christian feel our time could be more spent on growing closer to JESUS

and witnessing to the lost.



I spend my time not on twitter like so many pastors seem to spend most of their free time on nowadays talking like they are still in high school


but I am out there giving out tracts door to door


and along with others for lost and hurting people.





I am so angry with "pastors" like McManus and Warren who seem to be apathetic towads the lost and only seem to care about themselves.


I for the lost who are being pushed towards hell by enabling church leaders who seem to have little to no concern for the dying or hurting or lost.

[billiefan2000]

Phil Johnson's article on this:


Erwin McManus's Casket
by Phil Johnson



"For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions" (2 Timothy 4:3).

ack in August of '08, I wrote a post about the pretentiousness of Christians who try too hard to be artsy and manage to sully both art and the gospel in the process. (In retrospect, the tone of that post might sound a tad too cantankerous, even for me. But I completely stand by the point of it.)

One of the targets of my criticism in that post was Erwin Raphael McManus, self-styled "futurist, author, speaker, activist, filmmaker and innovator who specializes in the field of developing and unleashing personal and organizational creativity, uniqueness, innovation and diversity." Some say he is a "pastor" (though he seems to eschew that title and most other ecclesiastical terms). He's the lead speaker at Mosaic, "a Community of faith, love, and hope" in Pasadena. It's a Southern Baptist congregation, but you'd be hard-pressed to discover that from the church's own publicity. I spent many hours a few years ago watching videos and listening to sound files of McManus's teaching, and I have read two or three of his books, plus practically everything he has posted on line. I have never seen him explain, much less affirm, the gospel.

In that 2008 post I said: "Clear gospel truth is almost impossible to find in the material he publishes and posts for public consumption. And in that regard, I don't see a whole lot of difference between Erwin McManus and Joel Osteen. He's Osteen with blue jeans and an occasional soul patch rather than a shiny suit and a perpetual grin."

That unleashed a nearly 200-comment discussion in our combox. Most commenters who were already familiar with McManus voiced agreement with my assessment, but a few drive-by commenters criticized me for criticizing McManus. Then I had a lengthy discussion via e-mail with a key person on McManus's staff. No one could document a single source where McManus actually did preach the gospel.

A month later, Justin Taylor picked up the thread and asked for comments at his blog. I joined that conversation late, but here's the salient portion of the comment I posted at JT's blog:

I wasn't raising this question with regard to a single sermon or video. I'm pointing out that I can't find anywhere where McManus has dealt with sin qua sin—an offense against God as opposed to a personal hurt or emotional/psychological dysfunction. And I have never seen him even hint at the idea of repentance. I wouldn't be automatically critical of a preacher for a single gospel message that didn't include every aspect of systematic theology. In other words, I agree with your point: while it's true that the resurrection is essential to the gospel itself, that doesn't invalidate every tract or sermon or witnessing encounter where the resurrection isn't expressly mentioned. (I defended that very point a couple of years ago in the infamous controversy about Francis Chan's evangelistic video.) But if someone who preaches all the time never mentioned the resurrection—indeed, seemed to be deliberately avoiding it—I'd think it completely fair to raise the question of whether he really believed it.


I have exchanged several e-mails about this with a senior staff member at Mosaic, and I received one message from Erwin McManus himself. Neither of them supplied references to any message or online resource where McManus has ever mentioned the necessity of repentance. I had a hard time getting the senior staff member to understand that I wasn't challenging McManus over an issue of technical theological terminology. His main reply to me was that just because McManus doesn't use words like repentance, justification, and penal substitution, it's unfair to assume he doesn't teach those doctrines. But after exchanging several e-mails with him, he still couldn't (or wouldn't) point me to any online resources where McManus has dealt with the ideas of repentance, justification, or propitiation using different terminology.


So if we count that, plus all the replies to my initial post about McManus, plus all the comments in this thread, it brings the grand total of documented examples where McManus deals with the issues of sin, repentance, and justification to exactly zero.


I'm not trying merely to be harsh here. But I honestly don't see why anyone would think McManus's approach to avoiding the gospel is any better than Joel Osteen's approach to avoiding it. I understand that they appeal to different demographics, so there are real stylistic differences between the two of them. But my concern is with the missing substance.


I'd like to know why some who feel perfectly free to label Osteen a heretic think it's unnecessarily "vitriolic" to put McManus in the same category. A few of you have suggested that it's uncharitable even to raise this question. No one yet has offered a reasonable explanation why.




McManus's current project is further removed from the proclamation of the gospel than anything you'll ever see from Osteen—and that's saying something. McManus is shilling for an entry in Doritos® "Crash the Superbowl" contest. It's an utterly tasteless commercial called "Casket." ("A guy stages his own funeral just to munch Doritos and watch football undisturbed—in a casket.") McManus himself produced the commercial for the Doritos® contest and Mosaic is "sponsoring" it. They won a spot among the six finalists (out of 4,000 entries)—and tickets to the Super Bowl. The top prizewinner will be chosen by popular vote. So McManus has removed every vestige of his own website and replaced it with an appeal for votes. He's Twittering pleas for votes on a fairly regular basis, too.

He is convinced this is the work of God: "It's a miracle and a divine comedy that we've made it this far," he told USA Today. "I think it's God's sense of humor."



Rick Warren is ecstatic about the prestige and potential $$$ a win would bring McManus. He Tweeted: "My guy Erwin McManus (Mosiac Church) created a Doritos Superbowl Ad! Church could win $! VOTE 4 him!"

Our friend Paul Edwards's Twitter feed, as usual, was more on target: "Majority of Christians will laugh rather than weep at @erwinmcmanus 's commercial because the gospel is no longer central in our thinking."

Mid-Morning Addendum:

Someone privately asked my opinion about why Erwin McManus would devote the full resources of his church and energies to promote an entry in an advertising contest. Might he have motives that are good and pure? Could it be that he sees this as a kind of pre-evangelism that gets people's attention so that they will listen to his message? Are you perhaps being too hard on him for doing what most pastors do (but having more success at it)?

The "pre-evangelism" ploy might have some appearance of merit if McManus's message ever actually got around to the evangel. But since that's not the case, it's an unwarranted stretch to imagine that he intends this as a kind of preliminary to something he clearly has no intention whatsoever to engage in.

And let me be clear about something: I don't have actual statistics, but sadly, I think it might actually be true to say that Erwin McManus is just "doing what most pastors do." The mentality behind McManus's bravado and high jinks is by no means unique to him. It's the very philosophy behind the "market-driven Church" assumption: Any kind of publicity stunt is just as good as—and probably better than—gospel preaching for reaching the unchurched. That is the unspoken assumption behind most of the currently-popular evangelical carcinogens, such as the infamous "Church Marketing Sucks" blog, which I have critiqued in the past for precisely the same thing.

Publicity is not the same thing as evangelism. Fad-chasing isn't "missional." You're not "reaching" people in any meaningful sense at all if the gospel is not the center and the main substance of your message to the world.

That, you might say, is the salient point of every argument we have ever made on this blog.

[billiefan2000]

semi-related video but worth mentioning:


Erwin McManus and Joel Osteen it's just the Truth - Paul Washer

[myinnuendo999]

I'm slightly confused.. Erwin McManus is going to do an add lying in a casket eating Doritos and that's supposed to relay what message?? this is the Gospel according to Erwin?

Correct me if I'm wrong

[billiefan2000]

dont know what mcManus is trying to say



I think that McManus is acting like many other seeker and emergent pastors who believe


the gospel isnt really important


Mcmanus is both a emergent/seeker pastor show this shouldnt be a shocker.



some of his sermons that have been reviewed on FFTF at Fighting for the Faith

are strange to say the least



btw:

I like Doritos but I am insulted both as a christian and also a Doritos fan over what McManus has done.




why cant seeker and emergent guys start preaching the gospel and STOP ruining everything

(both in the world and in the church)

[billiefan2000]

Megachurch Enters Doritos Super Bowl Ad Contest
Published February 2nd, 2010 by Editor in General
“My guy Erwin McManus (Mosaic Church) created a Doritos Superbowl Ad!” tweeted fellow megachurch pastor Rick Warren last week in support of “Casket.” “Church could win $! VOTE 4 him!”

From Church Executive Magazine:

Two of his buddies apparently know the scheme and called it a “genius” plan that provides free Doritos and gets him at least a week off of work.

The commercial ends when the man overly excited after a touchdown, overturns his casket and is seen alive and well eating Doritos in front of mourners. One of his friends tries to cover for him by leaping into the aisle and proclaiming, “It’s a miracle!”

The idea for the comical ad was inspired by one of the “Casket” team member’s funeral experience. The team member’s grandfather had requested to be buried with a beer and cigarettes.

“Thx to your help Casket is at 35,000 views,” tweeted McManus, on Monday. “Help us make it 40,000 by tomorrow! (and u could win tix to the Bowl).”

This is the fourth annual Doritos “Crash the Super Bowl” contest. The makers of each of the top six entries have each won $25,000. It is now up to online voters to decide which three commercials will be aired during the Super Bowl. Votes will be taken until Jan. 31. The winners will not find out until Super Bowl Sunday when they actually see their commercial aired. Creators of the top three ads will win $1 million each. Doritos is also giving away two Super Bowl tickets every day to voters.







Megachurch Enters Doritos Super Bowl Ad Contest at Christian Research Net