Has anyone read "The Harbinger?"

[Keeplookinup]

I am almost through with a fascinating book by Jonathan Cahn, called "The Harbinger." The facts presented are real, although they are told in story form. How anyone could finish reading this book and not be awe struck at the incredible timing of so many events, is beyond me.

I give it a big thumbs up! Check it out.

[nillapoet]

I was looking at it but decided to pass. I think I might have to pick it up sooner or later though.

[Lynn]

If you go to Amazon's web site, where The Harbinger is available for sale, you can read the reviews of this book by many others who have read it, too. Even though I haven't yet read it, I would have to agree with one of the reviewers who stated that America and Israel cannot be compared in such a fashion. Israel was (and is) God's chosen nation through which He gave us the Scriptures and His Son. America does not fulfill such a divinely-ordained role as this, though God, indeed, has used USA to achieve many of His purposes. The hope we have as a nation is not hope in government or elected leaders; our 'only' hope is in God Himself, through faith in His Son's atoning death, burial and resurrection. Apart from this, there is no hope, not even if we managed to elect a Christian president. Things just continue to wax worse and worse, on into the tribulation and will continue to do so right up to the Battle of Armageddon, where Christ Himself intervenes. Our focus needs to be on Him, not on ourselves and how our nation can 'turn back' to God.
jmho

[mattfivefour]

Nillapoet, essentially the book makes use of the idea that the prophecy recorded in Isaiah 9:10 was fulfilled in America in the events of 9/ll: “The bricks have fallen down, But we will rebuild with hewn stones; The sycamores are cut done, But we will replace them with cedars."

The problem I have is that the book appears to be basically a narrative reworking of the precepts of the British-Israelism heresy, which sees the Anglo-Saxon peoples (Britain and then America) as being the true inheritors of the covenant originally made with Israel. In the erroneous book The United States and Britain in Bible Prophecy we read the following statements:

"God had promised to take a direct hand in delivering magnificent physical blessings to Joseph's descendants. When we understand that the modern descendants of Joseph are the people of the United States and Britain, we see that over the past three centuries God has been true to His promises. He has granted the physical birthright blessings of Joseph's sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, to their modern descendants—the Anglo-Saxon-Celtic people of Britain and the United States. The Anglo-Saxon and Celtic descendants have been the primary founders and shapers of British and American culture.... The British and American people have been the instruments used to spread God's Word to most of the known world. Although we often take the Bible for granted, and many U.S. and British homes now have several copies, it wasn't always this way."

This is gross error and a diabolical twisting of God's Word. But it is the thesis underlying "The Harbinger".

One reviewer (who loved the book) even wrote: "When one overlays the contents of The Harbinger on the prophetic framework outlined in the United States & Britain in Prophecy ... one gets the distinct impression that national judgment is at hand absent repentance of the type described by God to Solomon in response to his temple consecration prayer: “If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land” (2 Chronicles 7:14).

Were the book merely a call to repentance on the part of Christians, I would have no difficulty with it. In fact I would laud it. And those who read it and get just that message of repentance are blessed. Unfortunately it grounds that repentance in the false doctrine that America is heir to the covenant given Israel. Our repentance must be based in the claim God has on all men, and not at all in the agreement God made with Israel.

[JC1949]

Nillapoet, essentially the book makes use of the idea that the prophecy recorded in Isaiah 9:10 was fulfilled in America in the events of 9/ll: “The bricks have fallen down, But we will rebuild with hewn stones; The sycamores are cut done, But we will replace them with cedars."

The problem I have is that the book appears to be basically a narrative reworking of the precepts of the British-Israelism heresy, which sees the Anglo-Saxon peoples (Britain and then America) as being the true inheritors of the covenant originally made with Israel. In the erroneous book The United States and Britain in Bible Prophecy we read the following statements:

"God had promised to take a direct hand in delivering magnificent physical blessings to Joseph's descendants. When we understand that the modern descendants of Joseph are the people of the United States and Britain, we see that over the past three centuries God has been true to His promises. He has granted the physical birthright blessings of Joseph's sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, to their modern descendants—the Anglo-Saxon-Celtic people of Britain and the United States. The Anglo-Saxon and Celtic descendants have been the primary founders and shapers of British and American culture.... The British and American people have been the instruments used to spread God's Word to most of the known world. Although we often take the Bible for granted, and many U.S. and British homes now have several copies, it wasn't always this way."

This is gross error and a diabolical twisting of God's Word. But it is the thesis underlying "The Harbinger".

One reviewer (who loved the book) even wrote: "When one overlays the contents of The Harbinger on the prophetic framework outlined in the United States & Britain in Prophecy ... one gets the distinct impression that national judgment is at hand absent repentance of the type described by God to Solomon in response to his temple consecration prayer: “If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land” (2 Chronicles 7:14).

Were the book merely a call to repentance on the part of Christians, I would have no difficulty with it. In fact I would laud it. And those who read it and get just that message of repentance are blessed. Unfortunately it grounds that repentance in the false doctrine that America is heir to the covenant given Israel. Our repentance must be based in the claim God has on all men, and not at all in the agreement God made with Israel.

"the harbinger"...another lie.
Please read this article by Jack Kelley:

A Critique Of The Harbinger | GraceThruFaith

[ShilohRose]

I've read the book and watched a couple of interviews with Mr. Cahn. He states very clearly that he does not believe or support replacement theology. What he does say is that God often follows patterns in dealing with countries and sin. Mr. Cahn feels that he has been called to warn the U.S. that it can be brought down the same way ancient Israel was. He calls us to repent as a nation and individually.

[Keeplookinup]

I've read the book and watched a couple of interviews with Mr. Cahn. He states very clearly that he does not believe or support replacement theology. What he does say is that God often follows patterns in dealing with countries and sin. Mr. Cahn feels that he has been called to warn the U.S. that it can be brought down the same way ancient Israel was. He calls us to repent as a nation and individually.

No where in the book did I ever get anything about "replacement" theology. I took it exactly as you mentioned, ShilohRose and it was very, very sobering indeed. The facts, as outlined in the book, are far too numerous to be "coincidental." America has turned her back on the God that she was consecrated to by George Washington after his inauguration in 1789, at the very site of 9/11 in St. Pauls Chapel. The sycamore tree that used to stand out in front of the chapel was felled by the bricks and debris of the towers as they fell--it helped protect the chapel. A tree in the cedar family was planted in its place....

Don't try to read anything into this book that the author doesn't intend. I believe that the facts stand on their own; a warning.

[OnceWasLost]

Nillapoet, essentially the book makes use of the idea that the prophecy recorded in Isaiah 9:10 was fulfilled in America in the events of 9/ll: “The bricks have fallen down, But we will rebuild with hewn stones; The sycamores are cut done, But we will replace them with cedars."

The problem I have is that the book appears to be basically a narrative reworking of the precepts of the British-Israelism heresy, which sees the Anglo-Saxon peoples (Britain and then America) as being the true inheritors of the covenant originally made with Israel. In the erroneous book The United States and Britain in Bible Prophecy we read the following statements:

"God had promised to take a direct hand in delivering magnificent physical blessings to Joseph's descendants. When we understand that the modern descendants of Joseph are the people of the United States and Britain, we see that over the past three centuries God has been true to His promises. He has granted the physical birthright blessings of Joseph's sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, to their modern descendants—the Anglo-Saxon-Celtic people of Britain and the United States. The Anglo-Saxon and Celtic descendants have been the primary founders and shapers of British and American culture.... The British and American people have been the instruments used to spread God's Word to most of the known world. Although we often take the Bible for granted, and many U.S. and British homes now have several copies, it wasn't always this way."

This is gross error and a diabolical twisting of God's Word. But it is the thesis underlying "The Harbinger".

One reviewer (who loved the book) even wrote: "When one overlays the contents of The Harbinger on the prophetic framework outlined in the United States & Britain in Prophecy ... one gets the distinct impression that national judgment is at hand absent repentance of the type described by God to Solomon in response to his temple consecration prayer: “If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land” (2 Chronicles 7:14).

Were the book merely a call to repentance on the part of Christians, I would have no difficulty with it. In fact I would laud it. And those who read it and get just that message of repentance are blessed. Unfortunately it grounds that repentance in the false doctrine that America is heir to the covenant given Israel. Our repentance must be based in the claim God has on all men, and not at all in the agreement God made with Israel.

Adrian, I am assuming that is a pull quote from the book, right?

If it is, no matter the protest to the contrary, that is replacement and applying to Brittan and the US something that cannot be seen in Scripture.

[mattfivefour]

No, bro, it's a pull quote from the other book "United States and Britain in Prophecy" which was referred to in one Harbinger review because, as the reviewer stated: "When one overlays the contents of The Harbinger on the prophetic framework outlined in the United States & Britain in Prophecy ... one gets the distinct impression that national judgment is at hand absent repentance of the type described by God to Solomon in response to his temple consecration prayer...." I can only presume from that quote that the reviewer was struck by the similarity of doctrine.

However, our dear sister Keeplookinup assures us that in reading the book she nowhere received the idea of replacement theology, so perhaps it was something more in the reviewer's mind than in the author's. And that would appear to be the case, as ShilohRose has not only read the book but seen the author being interviewed. She says he stated that he in no way believes in or supports replacement theology.

It interesting, though, that the question comes up. I suppose whenever one takes OT scripture for the nation Israel and applies it to any other nation there can be that confusion on the part of readers. Scripturally, outside of Israel, I do not believe God calls any nation to repentance. I believe He only calls individuals. When He called the Gentiles, he did not call Gentile nations but Gentile individuals.

The biggest problem today, and the one that calls for repentance, is in the churches. If all of us would truly seek God above and before everything else and stop compromising with the world and our own old nature, God could move in us and among our neighbors (and, thus, in our nation) as He did of old. And that requires preachers who are called of God and who unsparingly preach the Word of God according to 2 Timothy 4:2, seeking to pierce hearts, not tickle ears. But the people will not bear it. They are as described in 2 Timothy 4:3-4.

[OnceWasLost]

No, bro, it's a pull quote from the other book "United States and Britain in Prophecy" which was referred to in one Harbinger review because, as the reviewer stated: "When one overlays the contents of The Harbinger on the prophetic framework outlined in the United States & Britain in Prophecy ... one gets the distinct impression that national judgment is at hand absent repentance of the type described by God to Solomon in response to his temple consecration prayer...." I can only presume from that quote that the reviewer was struck by the similarity of doctrine.

However, our dear sister Keeplookinup assures us that in reading the book she nowhere received the idea of replacement theology, so perhaps it was something more in the reviewer's mind than in the author's. And that would appear to be the case, as ShilohRose has not only read the book but seen the author being interviewed. She says he stated that he in no way believes in or supports replacement theology.

It interesting, though, that the question comes up. I suppose whenever one takes OT scripture for the nation Israel and applies it to any other nation there can be that confusion on the part of readers. Scripturally, outside of Israel, I do not believe God calls any nation to repentance. I believe He only calls individuals. When He called the Gentiles, he did not call Gentile nations but Gentile individuals.

The biggest problem today, and the one that calls for repentance, is in the churches. If all of us would truly seek God above and before everything else and stop compromising with the world and our own old nature, God could move in us and among our neighbors (and, thus, in our nation) as He did of old. And that requires preachers who are called of God and who unsparingly preach the Word of God according to 2 Timothy 4:2, seeking to pierce hearts, not tickle ears. But the people will not bear it. They are as described in 2 Timothy 4:3-4.

Absolutely!

Well said.

[Lynn]

. . . I suppose whenever one takes OT scripture for the nation Israel and applies it to any other nation there can be that confusion on the part of readers. Scripturally, outside of Israel, I do not believe God calls any nation to repentance. I believe He only calls individuals. When He called the Gentiles, he did not call Gentile nations but Gentile individuals.

The biggest problem today, and the one that calls for repentance, is in the churches. If all of us would truly seek God above and before everything else and stop compromising with the world and our own old nature, God could move in us and among our neighbors (and, thus, in our nation) as He did of old. And that requires preachers who are called of God and who unsparingly preach the Word of God according to 2 Timothy 4:2, seeking to pierce hearts, not tickle ears. But the people will not bear it. They are as described in 2 Timothy 4:3-4.

Amen! This is exactly how I see it, as well. Great Post!

[Keeplookinup]

"the harbinger"...another lie.
Please read this article by Jack Kelley:

A Critique Of The Harbinger | GraceThruFaith

Jesuschangesall, to simply say that "The Harbinger is just another lie" is an overstatement, IMHO. Did you read the book yourself?

The author never claims that America is the church; as a matter-of-fact, I recently heard him speak in an interview that it IS the individuals who make up a nation, that God speaks to in many, many ways! To simply dismiss the amazing parallels, I think it truly missing the overall message. And no, these are NOT judgments, but simply warnings to ALL OF US to WAKE UP! The church, individuals, etc. God is the one in control, He alone is worthy to be praised, He will not be mocked. While it may be that America isn't "officially" a Christian nation, she was CONSECRATED to God by George Washington, in St. Pauls Chapel, immediately following his inauguration. (Where Ground Zero is now...this area was all church ground in Washingtons day) His words: “The propitious smiles of heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregard the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained."

Inaugural address 1789”
― George Washington

We all could argue about semantics all day long, while completely missing the overall point the author is making. God can and will use whatever He chooses to speak to us, to warn us. God is fully alive and at work today!

It IS up to individuals, who make up the church, who make up a nation, to follow the one, true God. Thank you God that you are so merciful and patient! 2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."

Just my ! I fear that sometimes we can all be soooo concerned about being "deceived" that we throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are always some great take-aways to be found!

[mattfivefour]

Well said, Sue.

I think this thread has served a balanced purpose (as all such threads should.) It has described a book which some find extremely beneficial in its overarching message and at the same time has warned of a potential underlying pitfall that some others have found. If one can thus obtain the message of the book without being trapped in the potential pitfall, then the thread has indeed been worth it.

[Keeplookinup]

Well said, Sue.

I think this thread has served a balanced purpose (as all such threads should.) It has described a book which some find extremely beneficial in its overarching message and at the same time has warned of a potential underlying pitfall that some others have found. If one can thus obtain the message of the book without being trapped in the potential pitfall, then the thread has indeed been worth it.

Amen Adrian! Exactly!

[Daniel]

I'm reading it now and have seen the author on TV discussing it several times.

I don't know why there is apprehension about this book on Christian End-Times boards.

As keeplookinup said in the OP, the facts are real presented in story form.

The book serves as a wake-up call for America not to turn away from God as ancient Israel did.

If churches spent any time at all on bools like these instead of trendy "best coffe to be had on sunday morning" programs the churhes, and the country would be immensely better off.

I'll hand it to RF that at least it's being discussed here instead of closing threads about it.

[Keeplookinup]

2012: The Bible and the End of the World

It seems Terry James from Rapture Ready also gives a "thumbs up" to this book!

[Keeplookinup]

2012: The Bible and the End of the World

It seems Terry James from Rapture Ready also gives a "thumbs up" to this book!

And now Jan Markell has joined in as well!

Why Is This Message Controversial?