"Your witness..."

[DespizdNRejectd]

A quick spot check:

Romans 11:20
...and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid.

1 Corinthians 4:21
What do you prefer? Shall I come to you with a whip, or in love and with a gentle spirit?

2 Corinthians 10: 9 I do not want to seem to be trying to frighten you with my letters. 10For some say, "His letters are weighty and forceful, but in person he is unimpressive and his speaking amounts to nothing." 11Such people should realize that what we are in our letters when we are absent, we will be in our actions when we are present.

While of course no one who knows the Bible would think the Christian life should be filled with fear, it has its place-- just as labeling is not the norm. But all I'm trying to get across is that if we are concerned about our witness, surely labeling some posts as loony isn't helping. What message does that send? That's what I'm trying to get people to ask themselves.

[mikalikat]

This thread is heading down the same rabbit trail we're trying to avoid. Can we just end it here with the tennis game and get on with the threads as they were intended to be?

[mattfivefour]

While I agree with you about the direction this thread has taken, does DNR's point ...

all I'm trying to get across is that if we are concerned about our witness, surely labeling some posts as loony isn't helping. What message does that send? That's what I'm trying to get people to ask themselves.

... not deserve some discussion as to whether it is a fair observation and exhortation based on the teaching of scripture? Was our brother Robert's "loony" reference in fact an improper one? Or was it a fair and not unChristian characterization?

I am inclined to think sometimes these things need to be discussed ... PROVIDED that it can be done in Christian concern and love ... and not degenerate into bad witness, against which the OP exhorted. I did not think this discussion was in fact heading down "the same rabbit trail we're trying to avoid" at this point but rather was being discussed in love and was worth pursuing a little further for the sake of clarifying views on what constitutes bad witness. Truly I have not detected any "bad witness" in the back and forth here ... but rather a fair discussion among brothers and sisters.

As I said, I certainly don't want to keep an unprofitable discussion going. I just hadn't thought it had yet become unprofitable. Maybe I am wrong about this. If so, I apologize. :)

[mikalikat]

I will just bow out--I said my piece, and you guys can discuss it further. Not upset or anything, I just don't think I have anything more to contribute. I have the attention span of a flea right now, so I'm not into long, drawn-out discussions.

[Robert]

I have pulled the offensive word. my apologies to anyone it offended.

[Robert]

okay, don't everyone talk at once.

[bghtnpd4]

I think Despized made some good points in his posts. I am happy with my witness here on the board and in my daily life.

[DespizdNRejectd]

Why thank you Bot! ;-)

For the record, I personally was not offended by "loony". In fact, I wish all Christians would learn to ignore the style and "clothing" of others and just focus on ideas and arguments. We spend so much time trying to police each other that we forget to be human. My point was that we need to be consistent and fair. If we make a standard and draw a line, then cross it ourselves, that in itself becomes a poor witness.

Not to say we should go to the Driscoll extreme and try to out-shock the world, but that we cannot breathe in an overly-restrictive atmosphere. Somewhere between those two extremes is a wide zone of acceptability, if only we'll be consistent and avoid double standards.

I think the problem is that we don't recognize logical fallacies in our thinking. I highly recommend The Fallacy Detective and other logic tutorials.

[anath]

DNR, I have read and reread your posts and I surmise you are a very wise man.

[DespizdNRejectd]

Thank you, anath! All we have to do is ask (2 Chron. 1:10)

[DavidTR]

A lot has been said.

Robert I liked your OP post but the BOLD BITS in particular, the rest was OK but the BOLD BITS gave the message.

One of us said that the forum is being hi-jacked - I think not - But if it is then posts should be made which VERY CLEARLY point that out to a brother or sister. What is being really mentioned is matters of doctrine based on the rules of men.

Would Jesus like this forum - YES. NO QUESTION.
He himself "posted" parables for all of us. Where people gather together in His name then he is also there. Given that we contribute to a spiritual world there is NO restriction in doing so by gathering in this forum.

If there were - We would not do it.

D

[DespizdNRejectd]

That's the point, David... people make vague statements complaining about something, but they never point out the specific infraction and so nobody ever can figure out what they did wrong.

I've experienced that personally countless times, where I was told I was mean or harsh or off topic, but even if I asked them to point out exactly what I said wrong, they never told me or just responded with more vague charges. I've been banned without any chance to testify in my defense or clear up a misunderstanding. I've seen threads yanked (even here) without warning or explanation, and that sends people the message that they shouldn't bother posting.

Too much control in all the wrong places is why Christian boards go "bad".
Double standards are the death of conversation and fellowship.
Not knowing where Biblical absolutes leave off and personal convictions begin is the cause of division in the Body.

[mattfivefour]

I think we need to be careful here, DNR. Respectfully, you are close to violating our own board rules not to mention showing disrespect for our hard-working admin team. Comments such as "I've seen threads yanked (even here) without warning or explanation, and that sends people the message that they shouldn't bother posting" and "too much control in all the wrong places is why Christian boards go 'bad'" are the types of comments to which I am referring.

Forum rule number 28 says:

No posting threads about your personal infractions, deleted threads, or "why was my thread moved?" threads. All issues pertaining to board rules and clarifications will be discussed and handled by the Admin team. You may PM the Admin team if you disagree with any rules or infractions rather than posting protests and concerns. No deep seated angry sarcastic posts due to animosity with the mods or board rules.

And while the entirety of your post is not necessarily speaking of this board (at least not as far as the banning goes) it does reference things on this board. So please let's not put forward these complaints in this manner. If you have issues about the way this board is run, then the proper method of expressing—and hopefully resolving—any board problems or concerns is to communicate directly with the admin team. It definitely is not in airing your complaints in public threads.

That's the point, David... people make vague statements complaining about something, but they never point out the specific infraction and so nobody ever can figure out what they did wrong.

I've experienced that personally countless times, where I was told I was mean or harsh or off topic, but even if I asked them to point out exactly what I said wrong, they never told me or just responded with more vague charges. I've been banned without any chance to testify in my defense or clear up a misunderstanding. I've seen threads yanked (even here) without warning or explanation, and that sends people the message that they shouldn't bother posting.

Too much control in all the wrong places is why Christian boards go "bad".
Double standards are the death of conversation and fellowship.
Not knowing where Biblical absolutes leave off and personal convictions begin is the cause of division in the Body.

[DespizdNRejectd]

All I said was what message such a rule sends. I did not complain about the rule.

Matt, your response is exactly why I will not post in this board again. If merely using a rule as an example of why people don't post is considered complaining, then I will never know when the ax will fall again.

[Carl]

The world does have a measuring stick that it uses for labeling one of us a Christian. If our walk doesn't match our talk we are hypocrites. Which gives them an excuse not to accept what we proclaim. What they don't realize is that I am a sinner saved by grace. It would be nice if I was changed in the twinkling of an eye. But that doesn't usually happen. Most times I am changed by getting my fingers burned with my mistakes.

Most of us take a couple steps forward and the 1, 2, or 3 backward. I don't think that message is given out very well. If we would be more ready to apologize for our errors rather than defend ourselves in our error we would be better witnesses.

Thank you, Robert for your post. As ambassadors for Christ our posts should always be measured against the yardstick of Scriptures.

[mattfivefour]

All I said was what message such a rule sends. I did not complain about the rule.

But sis, you did. The context of your comments shows that. And you further statement that "too much control in all the wrong places is why Christian boards go bad" in the same context also demonstrates your displeasure; as does your references to threads and posts being yanked on this very board.

Matt, your response is exactly why I will not post in this board again. If merely using a rule as an example of why people don't post is considered complaining, then I will never know when the ax will fall again.

If you think that "using a rule as an example of why people won't post" is the point of either what you originally wrote or what I wrote in reply, then there really IS a problem here. You may have meant it one way ... but in the context of your other comments it came across quite differently. And if you feel that you will "never know when the ax will fall" then I do not know what to say to you without sounding preachy or coming across as though I felt I was more spiritual ... which I most definitely do not feel and certainly do not want to come across as in the least!!! I can sense your confusion on this issue and feel some of the reflected pain from your having been banned on our sister site. All I know is that our Christian discernment and simple sensitivity, should guide us as to what is acceptable and what is not. And prayer before and during writing ... and then again prior to clicking the "submit" button should also be another means of staying within what is acceptable to both our Christian and our board witness (which hopefully should be in sync.) And if we ever err, then the mods or other mature Christians will point it out to us ... and we need to accept it then in the spirit it was given.

[DavidTR]

Yes I do think that sometimes people can be vague. But not the OP!

There is a bigger issue here...

We ALL need to get a grip of ourselves and "DONT PANIC".

WE should always take in good GRACE what others here say and try and temper our answers underpinned by the fact that they (HERE) are family. This board is great for me. I am not surrounded with Christian fellowship daily as many of you are. In fact I am surrounded by quite the opposite and sometimes you can feel it

We all have good days and bad days - BUT WE ARE SAVED (As already eloquently pointed out). Sure we make mistakes in posts and sometimes put things the wrong way unintentionally. I certainly do.

Lety me tell you one thing. I asked for prayers on this board a couple of weeks ago and my prayers were answered in a way that I knew where it came from.

DOES IT GET ANY BETTER THAN THAT.

So chill out. There is much to learn here and limitless amounts to contribute to others in fellowship and prayer and bible study and moral support AS WELL AS sharing reactions to astonishing world events.

Praise God

D

[mattfivefour]

Let me tell you one thing. I asked for prayers on this board a couple of weeks ago and my prayers were answered in a way that I knew where it came from.

DOES IT GET ANY BETTER THAN THAT.

No it doesn't, brother! What an awesome God we serve.

(And, yes, your main point is well taken. 2:)

[Robert]

I'm bumping this because of recent events. Please read the original OP for details.

[Robert]

I am bumping this again ; I think it is needed.